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Old 10-30-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,354,687 times
Reputation: 5231

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
As much as I find this kind of ostentation repellent, no matter who is doing it, the minister of a church should, IMO, live comfortably, but humbly.
Since the person in question supposedly made all his money from book sales, he's not taking anything away from the church's mission. If he was my pastor, however, I would be finding another church.
I think he is taking away from the church's mission right now...

 
Old 10-30-2013, 03:27 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,900 posts, read 27,179,065 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesecracker View Post
Ani, you have some great comments.
May I suggest that most do not have an issue with someone making a lot of money and spending it however they choose to. When you get into the world of Church and Religion, it is an entirely different dynamic. The fact that Pastor Steven Furtik is a Christian and preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ makes him accountable to live what he preaches. His example is Jesus, who lived and preached humility. I don't see how living in a 16,000 square foot house on 19 acres represents the doctrine he preaches. It certainly does not reach the people he is commissioned to reach. It immediately raises ? regardless of if the purchase was from legitimate funds or not.
Whether or not the money was earned from the sell of books or paid speaking engagements makes no difference. It is all one way or the other connected and in some ways funded by the Church, which receives its money in tithes and offerings. You have to draw the line somewhere in life. It is bad enough that we American Citizen have to put up with all the non-sense we get from our own government. I am not suggesting that a preacher cannot have some money on his pocket and live a decent lifestyle. Preachers choose the ministry. It is not forced upon them. The Bible is pretty clear on most subjects, though some seem open for interpretation as to their meaning. Both the Old Testament and New Testament are pretty clear as to living a righteous life and managing resources wisely. I would say the Bible is quite clear on the example believers and leaders are commissioned to follow.
I believe the purchase of this home and land by Pastor Steven Furtik is an example of a terrible management of resources. He could have just as well bought a $500,000 house that would meet the needs of he and his family.He then could have used the extra funds for countless ways to make the world a better place either by helping the poor or by building a business to create jobs.
You get a gold star for that.
 
Old 10-30-2013, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,277,470 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesecracker View Post
I believe the purchase of this home and land by Pastor Steven Furtik is an example of a terrible management of resources. He could have just as well bought a $500,000 house that would meet the needs of he and his family.He then could have used the extra funds for countless ways to make the world a better place either by helping the poor or by building a business to create jobs.
Quote:
Since 2006, Elevation Church has given more than $10 million to local and global outreach partners. In 2011, a partnership with Charlotte Mayor Anthony Foxx was established to give 100,000 hours and $750,000 to serve Charlotte people in "The Orange Initiative." In 2012, the church completed The Orange Initiative with over 102,000 hours served.

In 2008, Elevation Church made headlines when it gave out $40,000 to members, in envelopes filled with $5, $20, even $1,000, and told them to spend it kindly on others.

Since 2010, Elevation Church has hosted a week long outreach called "Love Week." During the church's 2010 "Love Week," thousands of Elevation members packed more than 10,000 sandwiches for the homeless, helped single mothers get their cars serviced, donated blood, cleaned up parks and streets, built a soccer field for local ministries and renovated buildings. In 2011, Elevation and over 25 other local churches served more than 34,000 hours in a single week. In 2012, Elevation partnered with 31 local churches to serve 62 outreach organizations for a total of 50,340 hours around the city of Charlotte, N.C.. More than 4,800 volunteers from Elevation Church and other local churches served at more than 400 events, building houses, stocking food pantries, feeding the hungry and homeless, and holding a senior prom for elderly nursing home residents. Elevation also partnered with Presbyterian Hospital-Matthews to pledge $80,000 to help fund enhancements and expansion at a local free clinic.

In 2012, in response to a need of 1,000 mentors for students in Charlotte-area schools, Elevation Church launched an outreach program called the M1 Initiative, to support the mentoring initiatives of their partner organizations. Lead Pastor, Steven Furtick, seeking to fill the gap of 1,000 needed mentors solely with Elevation members, said, "We have always said we want to be a blessing to our city and support our leaders with a volunteer force they can count on." More than 1,600 members responded and committed to mentoring a child for the 2012-2013 school year.

Elevation Church undergoes a yearly voluntary audit by an outside accounting firm, C. Dewitt Foard and Col, P.A., which is not made public, and is only available to church members.
From Elevation's website:

Quote:
LOVE Week 2013 engaged more than 11,000 volunteers in six cities to serve 58,370 hours

The 2012-2013 M1 Initiative empowered more than 1,000 volunteers to tutor and mentor students in our local schools.

The 2011-2012 Orange Initiative engaged volunteers to serve 102,208 hours in our city gave $1,038,000 to our local partners.

Since 2006, we’ve given $9.9 million to 65 partner non-profits.

Through our outreach partners, your giving is directly impacting people in 16 countries around the world.

Again, what more do you want this guy to do? From where I'm sitting, buying the house, donating all that he has, and still being able to move forward with your mission does not look like a terrible management of resources. For all we know, that 1.7 million for the property is a drop against his and Elevation's net worth and future earnings. Their donations are on a path to be sky high by the end of this decade should he continue to grow his church. The 1.2 million dollar difference you're talking about is gonna be a small number in comparison. Had he bought the 1.7 million dollar house and Elevations donations were around 2 million, then I might be able to come around to your point.

Ever see those chain emails where they say something like "Those who were born on this day never knew what a video tape was or never knew when all we had were 7 channels on TV and never knew Saturday morning cartoons...", all that fun stuff. Guys like Furtnick are the folks who are coming into these fields. They're gonna be the out of the box thinkers. They're gonna be the ones rearranging perceptions and changing how we look at things. Let's face it: modern religion is in need of a face lift. Just google "internet killing religion". Church needs to start redefining its image in the internet age and it needs a rock star like Furtnick to make it look like a hip, cool place to be. If part of that image is a pastor buying a really nice house, so be it.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 06:56 AM
 
533 posts, read 765,775 times
Reputation: 370
Again, he makes (estimated) anywhere from 700-1mil a year. So the house is in line with his take home pay. It's actually "not that nice of a home" according to his take home pay (which is more than likely why he slipped that out during a sermon), being that the normal rule of thumb on mortgage is 3X your take home pay. So if you make 60k a year for example, a home (loan) of 180k is what you should be shopping. So Furtick stayed somewhat in those guidelines. Nothing wrong there, he did what any of us would do under that income.

And most of us agree, this is not about whether or not Furtick has done wrong by being rich. Any local church has the right to pay their pastor what they choose, even if it makes the pastor far richer than any of its members. Nor is it wrong for Furtick to become wealthy off his books. I am definitely not arguing that. My problem is his church has zero say so in the matter - an outside committee made up of 5 men (megachurch leaders) determine his salary, and he helps determine theirs etc. This is unlike any church model we have ever seen or heard of - there is simply no accountability in place for a system like that and that bothers me....

Anyway, word on the streets is his partners in crime (the 4 other megachuch leaders that form their "committee") highly advised him NOT to build the house, but he went ahead and did it anyway. In a way it hurts all 5 of them, because it opened up doors (media) which could risk/expose them all...

This story goes a lot deeper than Furtick and this house.

Last edited by Sloante74; 10-31-2013 at 07:15 AM..
 
Old 10-31-2013, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,354,687 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
If part of that image is a pastor buying a really nice house, so be it.

he needs that house to complete his image?
 
Old 10-31-2013, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,354,687 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloante74 View Post

Anyway, word on the streets is his partners in crime (the 4 other megachuch leaders that form their "committee") highly advised him NOT to build the house, but he went ahead and did it anyway. In a way it hurts all 5 of them, because it opened up doors (media) which could risk/expose them all...

This story goes a lot deeper than Furtick and this house.
If true, I bet the committee is giving him a "we told you so" look...
 
Old 10-31-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,277,470 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
he needs that house to complete his image?

Not my place to judge since buying a) house is neither immoral nor illegal and b) the church (to the best of our knowledge) is still doing all kinds of awesome for the community without doing anything immoral or illegal.

If this house is so troublesome for the image of Elevation, it would also be troublesome for those in his congregation and those who accept Furtnick's donations. Until he hemorrhages members and charities no longer accept what he has to offer, there's been no harm, no foul.

Other than illegal activity and taking directly from collection plates, the only way I could see this as being wrong is if he preached a type of "you don't need to have that" sermon while buying that house. I don't tell someone what they shouldn't have, don't tell me what I shouldn't, especially if they're the ones that already have. I'd have a far bigger problem if he walked out with all sorts of fancy bling, a 200 dollar haircut and 500 dollar shoes and proceeded to tell me that he...not Jesus through him....that he thinks I shouldn't be able to have the same thing.

Other than that, I don't care if he lives in a place twice the size and three times as expensive or a single wide with a dirty couch and a kegerator on the porch.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 08:26 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 1,265,593 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloante74 View Post
Again, he makes (estimated) anywhere from 700-1mil a year. So the house is in line with his take home pay. It's actually "not that nice of a home" according to his take home pay (which is more than likely why he slipped that out during a sermon), being that the normal rule of thumb on mortgage is 3X your take home pay. So if you make 60k a year for example, a home (loan) of 180k is what you should be shopping. So Furtick stayed somewhat in those guidelines. Nothing wrong there, he did what any of us would do under that income.

And most of us agree, this is not about whether or not Furtick has done wrong by being rich. Any local church has the right to pay their pastor what they choose, even if it makes the pastor far richer than any of its members. Nor is it wrong for Furtick to become wealthy off his books. I am definitely not arguing that. My problem is his church has zero say so in the matter - an outside committee made up of 5 men (megachurch leaders) determine his salary, and he helps determine theirs etc. This is unlike any church model we have ever seen or heard of - there is simply no accountability in place for a system like that and that bothers me....

Anyway, word on the streets is his partners in crime (the 4 other megachuch leaders that form their "committee") highly advised him NOT to build the house, but he went ahead and did it anyway. In a way it hurts all 5 of them, because it opened up doors (media) which could risk/expose them all...

This story goes a lot deeper than Furtick and this house.

I don't buy that for a minute. One of those pastors, the one from texas, has a house just like Furtick. I'd be willing to bet the other 3 does as well.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,354,687 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
Not my place to judge since buying a) house is neither immoral nor illegal and b) the church (to the best of our knowledge) is still doing all kinds of awesome for the community without doing anything immoral or illegal.

If this house is so troublesome for the image of Elevation, it would also be troublesome for those in his congregation and those who accept Furtnick's donations. Until he hemorrhages members and charities no longer accept what he has to offer, there's been no harm, no foul.

Other than illegal activity and taking directly from collection plates, the only way I could see this as being wrong is if he preached a type of "you don't need to have that" sermon while buying that house. I don't tell someone what they shouldn't have, don't tell me what I shouldn't, especially if they're the ones that already have. I'd have a far bigger problem if he walked out with all sorts of fancy bling, a 200 dollar haircut and 500 dollar shoes and proceeded to tell me that he...not Jesus through him....that he thinks I shouldn't be able to have the same thing.

Other than that, I don't care if he lives in a place twice the size and three times as expensive or a single wide with a dirty couch and a kegerator on the porch.
good for you...

I have no idea if Furtik wears expensive clothing but I know his jeans are extremely tight.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Shakedown Street
1,452 posts, read 2,570,565 times
Reputation: 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloante74 View Post
Again, he makes (estimated) anywhere from 700-1mil a year. So the house is in line with his take home pay....
My problem is his church has zero say so in the matter - an outside committee made up of 5 men (megachurch leaders) determine his salary, and he helps determine theirs etc.
Still spewing your irresponsible speculation? It is possible, but you have said it enough that you feel it is fact now.
And the church actually does have a say in his salary - if they don't tithe he doesn't get paid.
I am not going to look through this entire thread, but do you know exactly what your pastor makes?
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