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Old 01-23-2014, 03:24 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,469 times
Reputation: 284

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe View Post
I'm sorry but I must be missing your point. Can you elaborate? Let's just say Weddington tested positive more densley than Parkwood, would something be validated for you? Test scores that remain higher in kids who remain "higher" are still higher test scores.

ETA: And if its regarding the environment mentioned earlier, those kids are still pushing for more success, according to test scores.

My point is this - many parents are quite naïve about the "environment" they are sending their children to everyday. I get the sense that because test scores are higher and because there are fewer "reported" crimes, some assume that it is environmentally safer somehow or superior and that their children are "protected" and "better behaved". I have a high school student. And I work with teens for a living. And I know what goes on in schools and I hope you all do too because it is alarming. They bully one another. And they demean each other. And they drink. And they smoke pot. And they have unprotected sex and give their bodies away too early because of a intense need to be accepted. And they get depressed. And they cut themselves to relieve internal pain. And they starve themselves to fit a certain image. And there are even kids who wind up taking their own lives in the end because no matter how hard they try, they feel they are failures in every sense of the word. These issues exist in all schools of course. But sometimes, yes sometimes, they occur at an alarmingly increased rate where there are excessively high standards set to be "perfect". What about the plumbers and mechanics and farmers and handymen and builders and ALLLL of those important people that you flee to when something goes wrong? Many of them have been mechanically inclined all of their lives and just don't excel in the world of book smarts (I use my two very talented brothers and my father as an example). Of course I cannot speak for all blue-collar workers, but what on earth would we do without all them??? My point is this - grades and scores do NOT reflect nearly as much as you seem to think they do. And some of the scariest dangers exist right smack dab in the center of your highly sought after schools of excellence. So lets not develop this tunnel vision where rankings and scores and crime stats somehow separate us as fellow human beings. Teach your kids to be better than that. Teach them not to be afraid to be a part of new experiences and to fail sometimes.

Last edited by waxhawmom75; 01-23-2014 at 03:38 PM..

 
Old 01-23-2014, 03:25 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,145,170 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
As many has mentioned, like it or not, with very few exceptions, we are a product of our environment - this is especially true for kids when they form their personality and shape their goals in life.
So if some kids don't have college dreams (schools with lower college admission rate and lower SAT), most parents don't want their kids being influenced by them. While it is true that a self motivated kid will not be slowed down by the environment, not many parents want the risk and to find out the hard way...

Since most in the new subdivisions are highly educated professionals, they cannot accept their kids don't follow the same route - get best education available. Main reason for many newcomers in UC is top rated schools and many spent more than comfortable (plus are subjecting themselves to over 1 hr daily trafic) to get in 10 rated schools. So the double hit on seeing their kids sent to a less than a top rated school plus a drastic decrease in their property value, it is too much to take.
I think this is the feeling of the majority. I don't think it has to do with any specific school. Environment counts. Yes, kids will respond to what is around them, both positively and in the negative. Self motivated kids will do well in most environments, but that doesn't tend the be the norm, at least not in the late middle school and early high school stages.

Since I live in a established neighborhood and am not a newcomer, I can't speak to the rest. But I do agree with the feelings of a lot of people in this boat.

We've been redistricted once already and this will be our 3rd HS. I don't care as much as about property values as I will never recoup what I have invested in my house anyway. My concern is more that I have built a solid educational plan for my kids based on the relationships cultivated with the admin and staff over the last 2.5 years (5.5 if you count the ES years). This was something that was not easily done and took a fair amount of time on everyone's part as well as $$$ in lost work time, educational evaluation testing, OT sessions, tutors etc. Now I get to start all this over again, and possibly not set my children up future success. For what? I simply cannot figure out.
 
Old 01-23-2014, 03:43 PM
 
133 posts, read 288,098 times
Reputation: 110
More redistricting information.

From: OneUC Community [oneuccommunity@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:56 AM
To: John.crowder@ucps.k12.nc.us; Kevin.stewart@ucps.k12.nc.us; Richard.yercheck@ucps.k12.nc.us; Rick.pigg@ucps.k12.nc.us; John.collins@ucps.k12.nc.us; marce.savage@ucps.k12.nc.us; Mike.guzman@ucps.k12.nc.us; Christina.helms@ucps.k12.nc.us; Sherry.hodges@ucps.k12.nc.us; Mary.ellis@ucps.k12.nc.us; rob.jackson@ucps.k12.nc.us; Mike.webb@ucps.k12.nc.us; David.clarke@ucps.k12.nc.us; John.jones@ucps.k12.nc.us; bgbraswell@hotmail.com; mayor@council.indiantrail.org; bradhorvath@wesleychapelnc.com; joepollino@marvinnc.org; bdeter@townofweddington.com; mayor@waxhaw.com; Wyatt Dunn; elong@fairviewnc.gov; Frank.Aikmus@co.union.nc.us; Jerry.Simpson@co.union.nc.us; Richard.Helms@co.union.nc.us; todd.johnson@co.union.nc.us; Jonathan.Thomas@co.union.nc.us; bkilgore@monroenc.org; dnash@monroenc.org; santhony@monroenc.org; dduncan@monroenc.org; fgordon@monroenc.org; bjordan@monroenc.org; lkeziah@monroenc.org
Subject: Validation problem with McKibben Report

To: The Union County Public Schools Board of Education

Dr. Ellis and Cabinet Staff

Impacted community leaders

As we approach discussion and a potential vote this evening on whether or not the proposed UCPS redistricting plan moves forward, I feel that it is necessary to provide additional color around Dr. McKibben’s report in regards to a key metric that is either missing, or has not been made clear to parents and students. The importance of this statement is that utilizing this measurement the data shows that not only is the proposed redistricting plan lacking in developing the efficiencies needed for the student learning environment, but rather any large scale level of student shift is not a viable option.

In March of 2013, Dr. MCKibben conducted a population study for the Helena School District similar to what he performed for UCPS, and provided definition before the district’s Board of Education on student crowding and what an ideal population level would be. In response to questions from the Helena Board of Education, Dr. McKibben indicated that there is an Operational Efficiency population capacity that should be sought after within each school, with a 90% capacity level targeted for Elementary schools and a 75 to 85% level for middle and high schools. This information pertains to all school districts and is in alignment with similar organizations that provide consulting services to school districts on reassignment planning, with one key resource being the Operations Research and Education Laboratory (OReD) which is a state sponsored agency located within North Carolina State University.

This Operational Efficiency classification falls between the categories of Brick and Mortar capacity (low end), Programmatic capacity (middle range), and Functional capacity (high end). In the enrollment model presented for UCPS middle and high schools, Functional capacity would align slightly higher than the Watch Level count and by definition it is a school that has some overflow and mobile units, but these are environments that don’t support student seating. Once you progress beyond Functional capacity the student population now inhabits those spaces.

An analysis of the UCPS data demonstrates that even if Cap Capacity is used as the measuring stick, the majority of schools will be categorically placed above the desired Operational Efficiency populations throughout the five year period running 2014/2015 thru 2018/1019. However, since Cap Capacity is considered 20% higher than the Seating Capacity by UCPS, the latter should be used as the data baseline and the results now show that over the five year projected time frame almost every school falls drastically outside of the desired Operational Efficiency boundaries. Not only is the proposed large scale redistricting plan qualitatively impactful to families, students, and communities, but the results quantitatively demonstrate it does not provide the learning, safety, and logistical efficiencies that should be targeted.

This again points to the need to suspend this redistricting plan, and to start anew with a collaborative effort involving all stakeholders examining all options. Similar to the Student Reassignment Committee that was recently utilized by Nash-Rocky Mount Public Schools for their redistricting planning effort, a model that is developed from inception to end with all stakeholder representation can produce a successful and positive experience.

To the UCPS Board of Education

As you take up this topic tonight make the statement that this redistricting plan is not the primary route we as a school system will travel, and that the path still needs to be defined. Vote NO to even advance this plan to the cluster meetings, and provide direction to the Superintendent and her staff to present a plan that not only intends “to fill empty seats”.

No amount of ambiguity should be the result of the meeting this evening. Statements such as “the plan will change” and “we’re looking at all options” do not reassure those you serve. Only by allowing representation in the planning process will this community feel the level of engagement not just expected, but required.

Regards,

OneUCCommunity
 
Old 01-23-2014, 03:56 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,145,170 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
Jlat, I do agree that there is a difference in the schools. I don't know how anybody can deny that. I don't blame you for your concerns. I do think you get my point about what needs to be done when as a county you look at the best interest of 42,000 students. And I absolutely get your point about what needs to be done as a father, looking out for the best interest of your one student. Those interests aren't always going to align.
I just can't buy into the whole "take one for the team" meme. I don't see how sacrificing the educational future and well being of a group of kids some how make the majority better? My interests lie in my children's education and their future. If that doesn't line up with the county's interest, then there's a severe disconnect.

Quote:
I do think that it has less to do with the school and more to do with parents. No offense to any Parkwood parents, but I know for a fact that my kid (and know about 20 other kids in her same class) would have failed the math EOG's when they had a terrible math teacher. We were able to throw time, skill, and money at the problem that parents of different economic means might not be able to. Those grades weren't a reflection of the school, they were a reflection of the parents.
I can't 100% sign on to this either. I know parents that work 2 jobs and still find time to make sure that their kids get the proper amount of education. I know single parents that handle it just fine. It takes work and it takes a partnership with the school. So I put this at about 50-50. If you are involved and hold your child's' teachers and their staff accountable, they will respond.

Quote:
property values... first, the BOE doesn't owe you property values. And you are complaining about your own financial loss, but the only other solution is for taxes of the entire county to be raised to support any other alternative, as they are all more expensive... trailers, capping, new schools, additions, etc. Taxpayers of the entire county do not need to subsidize your property values with higher taxes.

Longer bus times.... without redistricting, you are looking at extended caps, so its not ok for your kid to increase their ride time from 1.7 miles to 6 miles, but it is ok for someone else in this county to have their kid on a bus for 25 miles?
Taxpayers of the entire county should not be asked to subsidize anyone's property values. At the same time taxpayers should not be asked to chuck their property values due to bad planning either. Doing so, shifts the burden on those that owned property that maintained their values, so nobody wins. Think the county will do a tax re-eval after this?

As far as caps go, if a kid has a seat at school, they should be able to keep it. If somebody moves in to a house next door and the school is full, then they should go to the next school that has space. Now the board will never do this because of transportation costs, inefficiencies blah blah blah. If the kids have to go 25 miles (which is an exaggeration), that's something that the parents need to reconcile before they put their name on the contract. After all what's a little inconvenience on their part if it benefits the entire country right?

Quote:
lower rated schools.... again, the lower rated schools are ok for other people in the county, but somehow you are entitled to the higher rated ones?
No they should not be acceptable by anyone. Neither should be roofs that leak, schools that can't get heat and classrooms that were built to house a third less students. The question is why has this been going on to start with? Where has been the accountability? Why do these school's underperform? What has been the superintendent's plan to improve these schools. Many have speculated the redistrict is Dr. Ellis' way of making improvements to those schools. She has said publicly that this move would "fix" PHS but I don't know. Maybe this is the one thing that you can hang on the parents, but I think some people that sit in big chairs down in Monroe really need to answer these questions, and not do so by passing the buck to the county or BOE or the towns. If they can't give the taxpayers a real answer then maybe in their next job they will do better.

Quote:
I don't see how that's not obvious that you feel more entitled to certain privileges than that what is provided to others in the county. I don't blame you in the least if you choose to pull your kid out of public school and decide to provide him with your ideal educational experience. out of your pocket... not the entire county's
I don't see how wanting the best education and best environment possible for someone's child is acting entitled? Why should anyone settle? Again, I can't buy the "take one for the team" attitude, when it comes to my children's future. I don't believe any parent, regardless of their economic statue, their job, how they were raised or anything else would accept that.

Last edited by jlat; 01-23-2014 at 04:22 PM..
 
Old 01-23-2014, 04:01 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,145,170 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewith3 View Post
well all juniors take the ACT at least they all do at the high school we are at, so are those scores there to get an overall comparison?

And all students take the PSAT too as juniors so those scores can be compared

Are you sure not all take the SAT? That is the only one I cannot find
ACT scores, PSAT's really aren't measurable metric.
If you go to NCReportcards.org and look up the school you'll the the SAT scores and participation rate along with the EOG test scores by subject, the graduation rate, the crime rate and a whole lot more.
 
Old 01-23-2014, 04:11 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,145,170 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
My point is this - many parents are quite naïve about the "environment" they are sending their children to everyday. I get the sense that because test scores are higher and because there are fewer "reported" crimes, some assume that it is environmentally safer somehow or superior and that their children are "protected" and "better behaved". I have a high school student. And I work with teens for a living. And I know what goes on in schools and I hope you all do too because it is alarming. They bully one another. And they demean each other. And they drink. And they smoke pot. And they have unprotected sex and give their bodies away too early because of a intense need to be accepted. And they get depressed. And they cut themselves to relieve internal pain. And they starve themselves to fit a certain image. And there are even kids who wind up taking their own lives in the end because no matter how hard they try, they feel they are failures in every sense of the word. These issues exist in all schools of course. But sometimes, yes sometimes, they occur at an alarmingly increased rate where there are excessively high standards set to be "perfect". What about the plumbers and mechanics and farmers and handymen and builders and ALLLL of those important people that you flee to when something goes wrong? Many of them have been mechanically inclined all of their lives and just don't excel in the world of book smarts (I use my two very talented brothers and my father as an example). Of course I cannot speak for all blue-collar workers, but what on earth would we do without all them??? My point is this - grades and scores do NOT reflect nearly as much as you seem to think they do. And some of the scariest dangers exist right smack dab in the center of your highly sought after schools of excellence. So lets not develop this tunnel vision where rankings and scores and crime stats somehow separate us as fellow human beings. Teach your kids to be better than that. Teach them not to be afraid to be a part of new experiences and to fail sometimes.
What I teach my kids, and how I teach my kids should be decided on by .... me... Not the schools, not other parents and especially not other parents that aren't going through what is happening now. I have no blinders when it comes to what goes on in these schools and I am far..far from naive. I came from the lowest rated inner city school in Charlotte. There's nothing that I haven't seen and pretty much haven't done. I've been spit poor, I worked two, sometimes 3 jobs to get where I am. I've lived in the PJs eeking out a living paycheck to unemployment check to paycheck. That's exactly why I want to put my kids in the best possible position for success. I want to them to learn about the world on my terms not anyone else. At the end if my kids what to be plumbers or underwater basket weavers, they will do so with the best education I can possibly give them. To do anything less is just.......<gotta stop now>

Last edited by jlat; 01-23-2014 at 04:23 PM..
 
Old 01-23-2014, 04:43 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,469 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlat View Post
What I teach my kids, and how I teach my kids should be decided on by .... me... Not the schools, not other parents and especially not other parents that aren't going through what is happening now. I have no blinders when it comes to what goes on in these schools and I am far..far from naive. I came from the lowest rated inner city school in Charlotte. There's nothing that I haven't seen and pretty much haven't done. I've been spit poor, I worked two, sometimes 3 jobs to get where I am. I've lived in the PJs eeking out a living paycheck to unemployment check to paycheck. That's exactly why I want to put my kids in the best possible position for success. I want to them to learn about the world on my terms not anyone else. At the end if my kids what to be plumbers or underwater basket weavers, they will do so with the best education I can possibly give them. To do anything less is just.......<gotta stop now>
Well that is great, really it is. But wanting the best for our kids is completely different from implying they are above others because they make great grades. And sometimes when all we focus on are scores and statistics, we lose sight of the human beings that make up those numbers. Kids should be more than numbers and scores. And most importantly is the reality that many kids WILL have to change schools. What message is being sent to them with regards to this change? I can only hope the best one possible. Good luck to you and your family
 
Old 01-23-2014, 04:49 PM
 
985 posts, read 1,650,760 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by First and Ten View Post
mewith3, if i can ask, what school?
Marvin Ridge
 
Old 01-23-2014, 04:53 PM
 
985 posts, read 1,650,760 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlat View Post
ACT scores, PSAT's really aren't measurable metric.
If you go to NCReportcards.org and look up the school you'll the the SAT scores and participation rate along with the EOG test scores by subject, the graduation rate, the crime rate and a whole lot more.
How is ACT is not measurable metric, why is it any different than the SAT and ever juniors at our high school takes it, and colleges use it too, to compare, I do not understand why it is not measurable.
 
Old 01-23-2014, 05:20 PM
 
985 posts, read 1,650,760 times
Reputation: 377
Okay so the BOE is arguing what core capacity means. Seriously, there are standards on all types of buildings, max capacity rates in bars, in restauarnts, in elevators, etc.

And again while MRHS is not at core why is my kid on a stool doing math without a desk, and quite frankly she said a chair would be easier than a stool. Yes, it would but both should not be acceptable.

Neither should having science in a non-science room be acceptable, as no experiments can be done

But please lets ask if core capacity is a real capacity....

Last edited by uswith6; 01-23-2014 at 06:19 PM..
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