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Old 01-24-2014, 10:14 AM
 
397 posts, read 580,394 times
Reputation: 284

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINYTransplant View Post
Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. They took us as fools last night... every option with approximate costs and yet when it came to the option of redistricting- nothing- no cost to taxpayers they said.

Why is it not possible that there would be no additional cost to taxpayers with redistricting? That doesn't mean that it won't come without great efforts and coordination and change. But I truly do think that redistricting will be the most economically feasible, do you not agree? Why does it always have to come back to this big conspiracy theory? Why does is not make perfect sense that a county which is the fasting growing in the state and in the top 20 in the country has MAJOR overcrowding issues? How can people continue to be blind to this very obvious fact? As Ellis said, there is no magic rabbit to pull out of the hat. I think many of you are taking those folks on the BOARD as fools in my humble opinion. They are anything but fools. Perhaps not the most popular folks right now, but certainly not fools.

 
Old 01-24-2014, 10:21 AM
 
451 posts, read 609,735 times
Reputation: 248
Funding of North Carolina's Public Schools

http://www.ncleg.net/documentsites/c...2013_02_19.pdf


Read it.


Transportation Formula is based on a "budget rating" funding formula using the following factors: pupils
transported; total eligible operating expenditures (local and state funds); number of buses
operated.


Have a bus obsession...

NC School Bus Safety Web


And of course there is TIMS, which some have thought, said, etc. is driving all the maps and numbers...

TIMS (Transportation Information Management System)

The Transportation Information Management System (TIMS) is a unique collaboration between the UNC Charlotte Urban Institute, The North Carolina Department of Public Instruction (NCDPI) and the Institute for Transportation Research and Education (ITRE) at North Carolina State University. It is an ongoing statewide project that concentrates on maintaining and improving upon efficiency in school bus transportation at the district level. Each district operates standardized, comprehensive computer-assisted school bus routing and scheduling software. By maintaining student, transportation and street network data at the local level, district personnel have access to the most accurate and current data available. TIMS Support Staff at NCSU and UNC Charlotte provide daily software and technical support to individual TIMS data managers across the state.

The Department of Public Instruction (DPI) utilizes TIMS data in the transportation funding formula to calculate annual transportation allotments for each local education agency (LEA). The funding formula accounts for distinctions between densely populated urban areas and more rural or sparsely populated districts in an effort to equalize the allocation process. Standardized software and reporting features allow comparative analysis among districts statewide and provide methods to measure compliance with state laws, regulations and policies concerning school bus transportation. An effective use of TIMS ensures a school bus routing plan that focuses on efficiency while maintaining student safety.

Last edited by SunshineCJ; 01-24-2014 at 10:34 AM..
 
Old 01-24-2014, 10:25 AM
 
397 posts, read 580,394 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
Funding of North Carolina's Public Schools

http://www.ncleg.net/documentsites/c...2013_02_19.pdf


Read it.


Transportation Formula is based on a "budget rating" funding formula using the following factors: pupils
transported; total eligible operating expenditures (local and state funds); number of buses
operated.


Want more...

NC School Bus Safety Web


And of course there is TIMS...

TIMS (Transportation Information Management System)

The Transportation Information Management System (TIMS) is a unique collaboration between the UNC Charlotte Urban Institute, The North Carolina Department of Public Instruction (NCDPI) and the Institute for Transportation Research and Education (ITRE) at North Carolina State University. It is an ongoing statewide project that concentrates on maintaining and improving upon efficiency in school bus transportation at the district level. Each district operates standardized, comprehensive computer-assisted school bus routing and scheduling software. By maintaining student, transportation and street network data at the local level, district personnel have access to the most accurate and current data available. TIMS Support Staff at NCSU and UNC Charlotte provide daily software and technical support to individual TIMS data managers across the state.

The Department of Public Instruction (DPI) utilizes TIMS data in the transportation funding formula to calculate annual transportation allotments for each local education agency (LEA). The funding formula accounts for distinctions between densely populated urban areas and more rural or sparsely populated districts in an effort to equalize the allocation process. Standardized software and reporting features allow comparative analysis among districts statewide and provide methods to measure compliance with state laws, regulations and policies concerning school bus transportation. An effective use of TIMS ensures a school bus routing plan that focuses on efficiency while maintaining student safety.

Very useful, thanks for sharing.
 
Old 01-24-2014, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,243,902 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Just a thought regarding property values: 1) As has been suggested by many in this thread, the board may be using redistricting to improve the scores at underperforming schools. Ok, so obviously these people believe that their kids will bring up the scores of their new schools, yes? So if that theory proves true, won't the new schools be more desirable as a result and balance out in the end? 2) Why should the BOE care about property values as you have suggested??? Don't they have enough on their plate???
3) If all of this "mess" is due to a mass influx of people moving into the county, why would it be so terrible if the influx lightened up a bit? (although I personally believe that the influx will continue and building of homes will continue to increase) 4) I can see if just a few neighborhoods were being sent to different schools that your theories of massive devaluation may occur in those affected. But if you look at the maps that were released last night, we are not talking about JUST a few neighborhoods!!!!! I just think this will all balance out in the end, folks will realize that the change wasn't nearly as terrible as they expected, and all will continue to flourish in Union County. But I guess that's the optimist in me
1. That may be a possibility or just a side benefit, or a little bit of both. I'm not making this claim, but I'm not so naive to think that this did not come up in any of their discussions. Only time will tell if it balances out in the end. It does not help present day valuation though.

2. The BOE has a vested interest in property values since they get their budget money from the county and the county gets a large chunk of revenue from property taxes. Their decisions should be based on what is good for the students, the benefit to the system, community input and costs, not just costs alone or as the primary factor.

3. Growth should be managed by both, county and local governments and the schools. Together. One affects the other. Neither should operate in a vacuum. Low taxes and quality schools are what made Union County an attractive place to live for lots folks. There should be regular communication between the BOE and BOCC so things like schools with leaky roofs and $91 million lawsuits are not a surprise to either side. Managing growth by enhancing what is seen as negative factors is not managing growth, just the opposite.

4. "The end" is a relative term to the person looking at the situation and their time frame. Perception is reality, and to folks from the outside looking to move in, having a home in a cluster that was in a higher performing school and now is in a lower one, or having to travel 13 miles to school instead of 4 (like some in Monroe may need to do) does affect how much they'll pay for a house. So will the fact that every 3 years there children may need to go to a different school. And this perception is happening real time. Since redistricting and revaluations only happen every few years, it may be some time before all things line up again.
 
Old 01-24-2014, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,476,219 times
Reputation: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post

They need to build new schools.

This is ultimately the permanent answer. We need them on the western side of the county AND let's not forget Porter Ridge on the East. They are busting at the seams. I went to a teacher conference at PRMS and got caught in the hub at class change. OMG..all those little bodies moving through that small space. There was no oxygen left in the air.

I'll go one further. I'm still looking at it from a community "Union County" standpoint. We need new schools AND we need to raise taxes to get them. County wide! But but it's not fair to everyone in the county to have to pay for them!! Well, seriously it's not fair for other county residents to get thrown in a yahtzee cup and rolled every 3 years with redistricting. They pay taxes too. Taxes are incredibly low in UC. It's time to raise them to accomplish what is needed. Not wanted..NEEDED!! Do I want to pay more? No! Do I want all kids across the county to be in a safe environment suitable to learning. Yes! So I know I'm in the minority but my opinion is to raise taxes. If your not willing to vote for that to then you aren't sincere in your motivation. Ok..let the screaming begin!
 
Old 01-24-2014, 11:07 AM
 
7 posts, read 8,769 times
Reputation: 15
UCPS Student Assignment Plan guidelines:
1. Maximize benefits to students
Not happening IMO. How are my children benefiting by traveling 20 minutes extra each way?
3. Provide same quality education to all students
Does SV offer Chinese in MS? I have not heard of that. Do they offer all the advanced classes my children are currently taking? Am I wrong assuming they are not?
4. Adhere to neighborhood schools concept
Not happening in my opinion. I live 3 miles from Cuthbertson and 2 miles from Weddington. 13 miles from SV.
6. Minimize the negative social/emotional impact on students being separated from classmates
Nope. Not at all. Only one neighborhood going to SV from Cuthbertson. Rest of them to Parkwood.
7. Utilize long-term planning
Who are we kidding. This is why we are in this situation to begin with. It was not done.
8. Minimize transportation costs and ride times
On who? Me? Nope. I will have to have my kids in car alot longer with county roads. not to mention my commute. There are neighborhoods further from Cuthbertson staying in the cluster. The lines do not make sense when you factor in commuting.
12. Be fair and equitable
nope. Not at all
13. Maximize quality of life/stability
Nope. Added stress and pressures to my kids.
14. Maximize community/school relationships
Have you seen the message boards and petition? It is ugly. No school unity when this happens. Divisions will be seen. There will be Weddington kids and SV kids hanging together. The comments are out on the petition pages. Cuthbertson kids will be the minority.
18. consider negative impact on students, staff, and faculty
Have you heard comments from teachers? The ones I have talked to are not in favor of this.
22. Consider input from staff and administration
Have they asked the principals etc. what they think?
 
Old 01-24-2014, 11:14 AM
 
451 posts, read 609,735 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by First and Ten View Post
I get that the "redistricting" option is the cheapest, but based on the presentation, it showed ")" cost….i have a problem with that. Most, if not all of the redistricted subdivisions (if the plan goes thru) will be moved to a school (HS level) that is 2-3 times as far as their current school. So the BOE is seriously trying to claim there is +0+ cost when you factor in more mileage, more gas, and more wear and tear on buses making longer trips?
The state pays for transportation to and from school (bus drivers and other personnel, fuel, maintenance and contract transportation). Been said by me, others, again and again.

State Law
115c-240(e) The State Board of Education shall allocate to ...local boards of education funds ...for the purpose of providing transportation to the pupils enrolled in the public schools within this State. Such funds shall be allocated by the State Board of Education in accordance with the number of pupils to be transported, the length of bus routes, road conditions and all other circumstances affecting the cost of the transportation of pupils by school bus to the end that the funds so appropriated may be allocated on a fair and equitable basis, according to the needs of the respective local school administrative units and so as to provide the most efficient use of such funds. ... If there is evidence of inequitable or inefficient use of funds, the State Board of Education shall be empowered to review school bus routes established by local boards pursuant to G.S. 115C-246 as well as other factors affecting the cost of the transportation of pupils by school bus.

115C-246. School bus routes.
(a) The superintendent of the local school administrative unit shall, prior to the commencement of each regular school year, prepare a plan for a definite route, including stops for receiving and discharging pupils, for each school bus so as to assure the most efficient use of such bus and the safety and convenience of the pupils assigned thereto.


Pieces of the Puzzle include:
- Bus Efficiency
- Funding
- TD TIMS/Audit
- Routing
- Service Indicators

Cap reduces bus efficiency (i.e., extra bus runs) and as a result directly increases cost for UCPS.

Same issue with grandfathering. That's why in the end grandfathered students will NOT get transportation.

My suggestion for the next BoE meeting would be to have discussion of:

Efficiency for School Transportation -
http://www.ncbussafety.org/documents...eminar2010.pdf


Bus Efficiency -
http://www.ncbussafety.org/Archives/...e_together.pdf


Pupil Transportation Funding -
http://www.ncbussafety.org/documents...ngOverview.ppt


That would clear the room out after about 10 minutes. Only us numbers people fascinated by the linear regression analysis involved with bus efficiency would still be around for the redistricting presentation and discussion.

Last edited by SunshineCJ; 01-24-2014 at 11:28 AM..
 
Old 01-24-2014, 11:29 AM
 
985 posts, read 1,653,739 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by catonc View Post
Another cost for redistricting that is not listed is teachers. We were told that redistricting would not impact the classes a child can take. So if Weddington offers AP or Honors classes that Sun Valley does not, don't they now need to hire another teacher so that classes can be taught at both schools? And that means adding another classroom to that school as well in order to house that class.

Just thinking out loud here.
no not necessarily, kids at MRHS take AP or Honors classes online and have fpr years if the school does not offer it. They place the kids in the computer room there is a "teacher" assigned incase of a problem but otherwise the child works on their own theough the class. It is cheaper it implement than to hire a slew of teachers, many have taken classes like this there.

For example just last semester when the AP Environmental Science was by computer.
 
Old 01-24-2014, 11:38 AM
 
141 posts, read 172,142 times
Reputation: 63
SunshineCJ….concerning the overcrowding issue, do you feel that the cheapest option is the best? No other options should be seriously considered and the prevailing factor comes down to cost?
 
Old 01-24-2014, 12:13 PM
 
631 posts, read 738,411 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwand2014 View Post
UCPS Student Assignment Plan guidelines:
1. Maximize benefits to students
Not happening IMO. How are my children benefiting by traveling 20 minutes extra each way?
3. Provide same quality education to all students
Does SV offer Chinese in MS? I have not heard of that. Do they offer all the advanced classes my children are currently taking? Am I wrong assuming they are not?
4. Adhere to neighborhood schools concept
Not happening in my opinion. I live 3 miles from Cuthbertson and 2 miles from Weddington. 13 miles from SV.
6. Minimize the negative social/emotional impact on students being separated from classmates
Nope. Not at all. Only one neighborhood going to SV from Cuthbertson. Rest of them to Parkwood.
7. Utilize long-term planning
Who are we kidding. This is why we are in this situation to begin with. It was not done.
8. Minimize transportation costs and ride times
On who? Me? Nope. I will have to have my kids in car alot longer with county roads. not to mention my commute. There are neighborhoods further from Cuthbertson staying in the cluster. The lines do not make sense when you factor in commuting.
12. Be fair and equitable
nope. Not at all
13. Maximize quality of life/stability
Nope. Added stress and pressures to my kids.
14. Maximize community/school relationships
Have you seen the message boards and petition? It is ugly. No school unity when this happens. Divisions will be seen. There will be Weddington kids and SV kids hanging together. The comments are out on the petition pages. Cuthbertson kids will be the minority.
18. consider negative impact on students, staff, and faculty
Have you heard comments from teachers? The ones I have talked to are not in favor of this.
22. Consider input from staff and administration
Have they asked the principals etc. what they think?
I see we're cherry picking only some of the guidelines. Can I add the other HALF you left out and elaborate on ones you mentioned?

1. Maximize benefits to students: Transportation is only one small part of the benefits to students. Education is top of the list.
2. Get maximum number of students in brick and mortar facility: I'd say this is definitely part of the proposal.
3. Provide same quality education to all students: Ellis said they'd make the classes available and as others have pointed out, there are many online options as well.
4. Adhere to neighborhood schools concept: I know other schools are closer and that is frustrating. Unfortunately, with limited capacity they are moving to the next available space.
5. Limit the number of transitions for the same student: I think we all agree it's happened too much in the past. The current proposal should keep everyone in place for 5 years and then we can redo with new schools.
6. Minimize the negative social/emotional impact on students being separated from classmates: "Nope. Not at all. Only one neighborhood going to SV from Cuthbertson. Rest of them to Parkwood." I'm in 100% agreement with your neighborhood on this one.
7. Utilize long-term planning: "Who are we kidding. This is why we are in this situation to begin with. It was not done." 100% agree. A disaster.
8. Minimize transportation costs and ride times: It would be great if they could minimize every individual's travel time/distance. Unfortunately, they have to minimize the total population as a whole while trying to balance many other factors.
9. Communicate to public: Well, I guess they are now, and we can find evidence this was known earlier in the year, but I do think they need to do a LOT better.
10. Provide relief to the most crowded schools: I can't understand why you left this one off your list.
11. Be aware of requirements within municipality lines /government boundaries: We can't ship kids off to SC, Mecklenburg, or Anson counties, so they have to stay within their confines. I don't think a lot of our municipalities have very good requirements when it comes to schools.
12. Be fair and equitable: This is tough to balance across a large population.
13. Maximize quality of life/stability: "Nope. Added stress and pressures to my kids." Agreed, although the overcrowding makes stability difficult for the kids in the classes too.
14. Maximize community/school relationships: "Have you seen the message boards and petition? It is ugly. No school unity when this happens. Divisions will be seen. There will be Weddington kids and SV kids hanging together. The comments are out on the petition pages. Cuthbertson kids will be the minority." I do agree its ugly, but I give the kids more credit.
15. Be aware of logistical and operational impact on school: This is a key part of the reason we are doing this.
16. Analyze costs associated with plan and benefits: They are.
17. Minimize total cost of operations: They are.
18. consider negative impact on students, staff, and faculty: Many students and teachers are very frustrated with the over crowding in their schools. It makes it hard to learn and teach.
19. Ensure legitimacy of the plan: I have no comments on this one.
20. Maximize assurance of taxpayers that Board is conscious of fiduciary responsibilities: This was very obvious last night and very important to a majority of the tax payers.
21. Maintain awareness of and alignment with future growth: They are leaving room in all schools. Some more that others. By waiting a few years to build new schools we will be more accurate on where they put them. I'm hopeful that the BOE, BOCC and towns will have a much improved collaboration on growth projections.
22. Consider input from staff and administration: "Have they asked the principals etc. what they think?" Yes they have.
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