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Old 02-03-2014, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,411,807 times
Reputation: 4818

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxhawMike View Post
You guys are blowing this way out of proportion. Again, this is one guys analysis that can contribute to the discussion as much as any other piece of analysis that has been done. Some is good, some needs to be thrown out, but the more data and the more viewpoints, the better.

At the end of the day, a large portion of the anti-redistricting crowd isn't really anti-redistricting at all. They, or we, are pro-community involvement that considers all alternatives. Given that the redistricting proposal was done behind closed doors without involvement from all stakeholders and that viable alternatives were never really considered it makes sense to slow down... that is really all that is being asked. So, if that means an extra trailer or two across the district for '14-'15, I don't think that's unreasonable.
The thing was thrown out to the wolves and it has to be expected that people will drill down into it. The whole conspiracy section - from the buildings overlapped on each other, to Stewart's connection to a grading company, to the "special treatment" examples are all terribly flawed, poorly written, and completely out of place with the message you seem to be representing. I've seen some bad hose jobs in the proposal, even raised some myself here in this thread when I see them - the 3 examples in the report for special treatment highlights weren't worth the 10 minutes I just spent looking into them because there's nothing there. WTF - those were the best 3 examples they could find? I know one worse right off the top of my head and mentioned it before... Regardless, all the distractions give people a reason to disregard the rest. You don't want that.

As much as I may like the data points and analysis of the McKibben report - much of that is great... We have to admit the simple truth of the "viable alternatives" you keep referring to - all of them involve using trailers to bridge one year to almost positively redistricting next year - albeit with the insistence that it would be "smarter". In the same breathe of calling out redistricting as not being free, you have to admit investment in trailers to get through next year is even further from free - especially when you know you won't recoup the costs of the trailers when you just redistrict next year anyway.

 
Old 02-03-2014, 05:56 PM
 
49 posts, read 52,040 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
The thing was thrown out to the wolves and it has to be expected that people will drill down into it. The whole conspiracy section - from the buildings overlapped on each other, to Stewart's connection to a grading company, to the "special treatment" examples are all terribly flawed, poorly written, and completely out of place with the message you seem to be representing. I've seen some bad hose jobs in the proposal, even raised some myself here in this thread when I see them - the 3 examples in the report for special treatment highlights weren't worth the 10 minutes I just spent looking into them because there's nothing there. WTF - those were the best 3 examples they could find? I know one worse right off the top of my head and mentioned it before... Regardless, all the distractions give people a reason to disregard the rest. You don't want that.

As much as I may like the data points and analysis of the McKibben report - much of that is great... We have to admit the simple truth of the "viable alternatives" you keep referring to - all of them involve using trailers to bridge one year to almost positively redistricting next year - albeit with the insistence that it would be "smarter". In the same breathe of calling out redistricting as not being free, you have to admit investment in trailers to get through next year is even further from free - especially when you know you won't recoup the costs of the trailers when you just redistrict next year anyway.


so there are 150 slides, you want to criticize the "conspiracy theory", fine….that is what, 7 slides? 10 slides? Throw those out….left with 140 slides….does he have any good points?
 
Old 02-03-2014, 05:57 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,128 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewarts Little Marbles View Post
so being to detailed, in your opinion, invalidates an the argument against redistricting….is it your feeling that "well the report is too long, i don't want to read it, so lets go ahead with redistricting because you should have condensed the report"….seriously?

Well hello there, 'First and Last'...
 
Old 02-03-2014, 06:03 PM
 
451 posts, read 608,244 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
One long, hot mess.
I could talk about capacity, watch levels, and cap levels. We've done that.

I could and have talked about the effort on the survey is great but it's not statistically valid.

I could go slide by slide but as they said on Slide #15..

"Now I do love me some numbers but all these numbers just don’t make sense in tabular format.
It’s no wonder this student reassignment plan has proceeded as far as this.
The numbers have obfuscated the issue(s).
Too many numbers are confusing to most people, including me. Nowhere have we seen anything that looks like..."


Now as everyone here knows I really, really love me some numbers.

These numbers don't obfuscate the issue and as they showed themselves they just don't understand the numbers...

Slide #20-The Missing 1,957 students
"Notice where the FCP forecasts starts with a lower 2013‐14 enrollment than McKibben started with.
McKibben’s report is dated Nov 2013, the FCP report is dated Jan 6, 2014.
It is reasonable to assume that McKibben used summer or fall enrollment data, and the FCP used fresher numbers.
Possibly the numbers at Christmas break or maybe even the start of the 2014 if any new students moved in over the holidays.
Something explains this difference. I was unable to uncover it in my analysis.
At all 3 levels, the numbers that FCP uses for 2013‐14 enrollment is less than McKibbens. Elementary school=653 less
Middle school=68 less
High school=1,236 less
I interpret this to mean that enrollment declined during the August 2013 to December 2013 timeframe by 1,957 students."


The only problem here is that they aren't missing. "Fresher numbers", no. "Christmas break", no. "New students moved in over the holidays", no. They aren't missing, they are in there. They just don't know where they are because they don't know these numbers or any numbers it looks like. 150 pages, hours and hours of work, committees upon committees, and you don't know where the 1,957 went?

If they can figure out the 1,957 then I may look at the analysis a little more ignoring the some of the other pettiness.

Until then, No soup for you.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 06:05 PM
 
527 posts, read 636,581 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
The thing was thrown out to the wolves and it has to be expected that people will drill down into it. The whole conspiracy section - from the buildings overlapped on each other, to Stewart's connection to a grading company, to the "special treatment" examples are all terribly flawed, poorly written, and completely out of place with the message you seem to be representing. I've seen some bad hose jobs in the proposal, even raised some myself here in this thread when I see them - the 3 examples in the report for special treatment highlights weren't worth the 10 minutes I just spent looking into them because there's nothing there. WTF - those were the best 3 examples they could find? I know one worse right off the top of my head and mentioned it before... Regardless, all the distractions give people a reason to disregard the rest. You don't want that.

As much as I may like the data points and analysis of the McKibben report - much of that is great... We have to admit the simple truth of the "viable alternatives" you keep referring to - all of them involve using trailers to bridge one year to almost positively redistricting next year - albeit with the insistence that it would be "smarter". In the same breathe of calling out redistricting as not being free, you have to admit investment in trailers to get through next year is even further from free - especially when you know you won't recoup the costs of the trailers when you just redistrict next year anyway.
um, trailers are already in long term use in some of these "under utilized" schools. I really don't understand the anti-trailer outcry if it means a better and bought into long term solution... and actually there are alternatives that would prevent the need for 1 yr trailers anyway. Oh, we also have unused trailers sitting idle.

I have no problem with people pointing out discrepancies or bias, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If wrong assumptions and ill conceived comments meant an entire concept was incorrect we would never have gotten this far with redistricting.

There is a wide spread phenomenon sweeping across corporate America called "Change Management". You and others, including Ellis and Webb should look it up.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 06:14 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,947 times
Reputation: 11
Cjh
 
Old 02-03-2014, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,411,807 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewarts Little Marbles View Post
so there are 150 slides, you want to criticize the "conspiracy theory", fine….that is what, 7 slides? 10 slides? Throw those out….left with 140 slides….does he have any good points?
I like how he analyzes the McKibben report over the years... combined with the data for each school, although a bit hard to follow, gets the general message across that the redistrict proposal has some potential deep set flaws. That's really the overall point I get.

But we knew that there are flaws. What he's missing... and I would love to see also, is the full set of data at Dr Ellis' disposal. Maybe with all the data as inputs (instead of just what is publicly available) there could be a truly viable option at the end of this presentation? I'm not sure... But what is working against him - and us - is the overall timeline.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,411,807 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
...

Until then, No soup for you.
I think it's fairly obvious that there wasn't just one author here... it comes off as a compilation or "best of/greatest hits" from several sources.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 06:19 PM
 
49 posts, read 52,040 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
I like how he analyzes the McKibben report over the years... combined with the data for each school, although a bit hard to follow, gets the general message across that the redistrict proposal has some potential deep set flaws. That's really the overall point I get.

But we knew that there are flaws. What he's missing... and I would love to see also, is the full set of data at Dr Ellis' disposal. Maybe with all the data as inputs (instead of just what is publicly available) there could be a truly viable option at the end of this presentation? I'm not sure... But what is working against him - and us - is the overall timeline.


I will agree with your point Mikey, and that is a major point of frustration for many people. why the rush? is UC education system going to come to a screeching halt if redistricting isn't voted on by April? That is what some BOE members will have you believe. Why does this plan have to implemented this quick?
 
Old 02-03-2014, 06:21 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,947 times
Reputation: 11
Theres something that people arent discussing. I didnt want to bring this up, because I didnt want the boe to make another rule to stop this. It is very true that many...many families moved in certain school districts for the neighborhood schools. With that being said, this redistricting will not fix the problem. Here is why. Family moves in district, boe moves lines, adamant family moves right back in. I realize that many can't, and some won't, but MANY will. School has 1450 students , 300 are moved, leaving 1150. 150 sell, or rent their home and come right back, then add the typical 50 new students that just moved in over summer. There you have it, back around 1350, within months. Its already happening, and if necessary, I would to.
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