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Old 02-07-2014, 04:20 AM
 
1,226 posts, read 2,049,763 times
Reputation: 1863

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
Wow the darkside has taken over

What were the actually scores and the changes???
Scores at Marvin and Weddington dropped from high 90s to 80s.

scores at Sandy Ridge and kensington dropped from high 90s to 60s and 70s.

 
Old 02-07-2014, 04:53 AM
 
985 posts, read 1,649,893 times
Reputation: 377
But then there lies the fact that people say it is okay to overcrowd the schools with good test grades, those are the kids that can handle it the best. The learning environment of 35-40+ kids is okay there, just not at our school which is not performing as well. Yes, I have heard these claims over and over again.

Everyone seems to think, what's another 5 kids?

Trailers will not solve all of the problems especially at the high school level.

Many also want to forget that there are people working in those conditions, teachers without permanent rooms so the roam to other rooms where those teachers have planning.

The county wants the best teachers, the parents most certainly want the best teachers for their children, and we expect on the salary they make to have to put up with those 5 extra kids, be moved from to room all day long.

You also have the teachers working with the leaking roofs, or falling apart buildings.H how many of us have worked in falling apart building or have walked around buckets in the hallways because the roof leaks when it rains? But let's see its okay that our teachers the second group of people outside the family we entrust our kids to everyday.

It's okay for those teachers and those kids at that school, but not MY kids, is the attitude. Maybe we should all work together to fix what is broken not make it a my school vs your school situation the BOE has to look at it that way it is their job.

So does anyone think the performance of the schools that need repair may go up if in fact the county acts like they care and they want the best possible situation for those teachers and kids too. I bet the teachers morale will go up if they do not have to walk around buckets in the hallways or in their classrooms, then that attitude come into the classroom.
 
Old 02-07-2014, 05:08 AM
 
397 posts, read 579,128 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlat View Post
The plan is to gut 1.5 of the 3 top performing clusters, unceremoniously dump the kids into under-preforming schools miles away from their homes, test them and at least for the 1st year see the scores go up. Then high five each other, collect the federal Race to the Top payday and tell their anyone that will listen about how great of job they are doing educating EVERYONE. Rainbows and unicorns all across the kingdom....
Therein lies the conspiracy theory. Skip over what should be the very obvious issue (overcrowding and sub-par safety) and dive into this.
 
Old 02-07-2014, 05:26 AM
 
397 posts, read 579,128 times
Reputation: 284
Mewith3 you've raised logical points for those concerned about the county as a whole. The arguments we are seeing that focus on scores and gutting top performing schools are driven by an obvious egocentricity (my kid, my home value, my inconvenience, my life). But the BOE cannot be egocentric or subjective as they are representing an entire county of children and their education and their safety. Not so successfully hidden behind the anti-redistricting agenda lies a fairly simple driving force: I don't want my property value to go down and I don't want my kids attending a school where there are significant socio-economic differences. End of story.
 
Old 02-07-2014, 05:51 AM
 
631 posts, read 736,245 times
Reputation: 305
Wow, did this conversation go awry overnight. Interesting reading this morning.

BOE Working Session - no date has been announced yet, so I assume it won't be next week. Maybe they are trying to find a school willing to host them with the crowds and TV crews taking up space at 6:00am. What if they just used our public broadcasting stations and televised it?

If it is not scheduled until the following week, I predict many of the "slow down" folks will suddenly want the BOE to "hurry up!"
 
Old 02-07-2014, 06:31 AM
 
19 posts, read 26,129 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
Redistricting does solve the overcrowding problem. The numbers prove that. The problem is that 15% of households with children under 18 don't like that option.
With all due respect. You have not provided a solution. Having to do the same thing over and over again is not a solution. Maybe we can do a county wide survey. Simple question. Would you want your child to be redistricted? If that number stays at 15% I think you're statement is valid. And I'm sure if you ask about capping and having your child take a 45 minute bus ride the results will be similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
UCPS and the BoE don't control housing permits so they can't control growth. They don't even control capital expenditures so they can't just go build stuff.
You're missing the point. Where's the plan to solution this? They may not control housing permits. But that's what should be in the plan. Obviously this is not only a BoE problem. Pointing fingers or saying it's not my job is irresponsible. Does it impact the BoE? Then it's their responsibility to address it and try to find a solution. If your neighbors house is on fire do you do nothing or do you call 911?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
The two key variables you identified they don't control.
Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly enough. If you're asked to resolve overcrowding you don't pick an option and declare that it's over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
See lawsuit=$91M
You can't hide behind the lawsuit. If you have a plan you adjust. More variables. More more ways to look for solutions. A plan shouldn't be static. You have to be able to adjust.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
Got to disagree with you there. Anything less than what was presented, people would have said how they didn't do x, y, z. They covered options that hadn't previously been brought up and they put numbers to them. If there was a true conspiracy they would have just gone with the basics like you suggest.
Again, you miss the point. They presented options. Plans need to be adjustable. With proper communications people are smart enough to understand. But it can't be done behind the curtain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
He has. Money grew on trees before 2008. It doesn't now.
And where is the planned solution?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
I thought a couple of weeks ago, it was on a friday night i think, we talked about the options and some variations of those.
I never said that they were never discussed. Those posts is what I was referencing. It was probably the only productive posts in the entire thread. But again, they were options. Not a plan. But at least there was thoughtful dialogue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
Redistricting + $9.5M to fix roofs, etc. would fix the overcrowding, fix the schools and probably raise test scores for all students.
Show me the plan on how this would work. Show me the time-line. Show me the plan that deals with possible obstacles and how they would deal with them. There's no plan. It's a bunch of options that have been tossed around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
There is no silver bullet here. Every proposed solution has pain associated with it and that's the problem.
There has not been a planned solution.

Sunshine. I'm not hear to argue with you. You've been on here a long time and I responded only because of the that. My 9-5 job is putting financial plans together for large corporations. It's not easy by any means. So I appreciate what the BoE has to go through. But if they don't have the proper resources then they should hire a contractor with the correct skill sets. It would be money well spent. Heck I'd do it for free for them (and yes, the services were already offered and were graciously declined with a thank you).

So if all of you want to sit down and develop a real plan, let me know. I've started but it takes time, especially when you try to do it on your own and don't have all the inside information (but that's just another variable you work around)

Good day everyone and best of luck to you all.
 
Old 02-07-2014, 07:00 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,237 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Therein lies the conspiracy theory. Skip over what should be the very obvious issue (overcrowding and sub-par safety) and dive into this.
Please...tell me how this is inaccurate? You yourself said many posts ago that moving these kids would increase test scores at these schools and in turn, up the surrounding property values. Next year the state starts handing out the letter grades based on READY and not the ABCs of Public Education. The state has already predicted that there will be a rebound of test scores. You mean you can't even entertain the possibility that this all JUST simply about overcrowding? Doesn't it seem just a bit convenient that they are doing this now at breakneck speed, not even willing to consider the possibility of doing anything else but force bus? That it would take the forced busing of 15% of the students in the county to alleviate the overcrowding at just a few schools? Really c'mon?
 
Old 02-07-2014, 07:03 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,237 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
And isn't it a fair assessment that you don't want to hear of any other option besides "not redistricting?"

Well nevermind, I guess you'd probably be okay with redistricting everyone else but your kid.
Actually, I'd be okay if they forced bused EVERY kid in the district. Not just a select few that they have deemed worthy. Imagine the outrage if they did that?
 
Old 02-07-2014, 07:11 AM
 
631 posts, read 736,245 times
Reputation: 305
Rewind back to 2006-2008. There were plans put in place, the BOE and BOCC were working better together. The BOE was working with the municipalities. Were they a fantastic partnership? No. But they were at least working together. The plan had multiple new schools scheduled to be built, concentrated in high growth areas, old schools were to be demolished and replaced, and there were bond referendums supporting it.

2009-2010. Market crash, high unemployment, change of guard on the BOCC and BOE (both always change btw), construction grinds to a halt, people selling their houses to leave and new people coming in grinds to a halt.

2010 - BOE pulls the new construction from their strategic plan. Was it short sighted? Yes. Was it a reality of the economic times and tight budgets? Yes.

2012-2014 - Growth picks up, and here we are.

We do need a joint plan between the municipalities, BOCC and BOE to ensure the schools (and all the county infrastructure) supports the continued growth. They don't have to stop it or limit it as long as they can effectively forecast and PAY for it. That's the type of planning we need across the county.

Unfortunately, they do not want to work together now, leaving the BOE to create their own plan within their own control. Their initial proposal was to redistrict now to get us through 5 years without readjusting every year - AND they want to get new schools funded and built by the end of that 5 years. We don't all agree with that plan, but that's what they laid out. It's a multi-generational plan that they build within the confines of zero funds.

Come election time (Primary and November) remember this. Vote in BOCC, BOE and City representatives that DO want to work together for the good of the whole county and that do understand the complexities of this issue.
 
Old 02-07-2014, 07:28 AM
 
451 posts, read 608,244 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys21 View Post
You're missing the point. Where's the plan to solution this? They may not control housing permits. But that's what should be in the plan. Obviously this is not only a BoE problem. Pointing fingers or saying it's not my job is irresponsible. Does it impact the BoE? Then it's their responsibility to address it and try to find a solution. If your neighbors house is on fire do you do nothing or do you call 911?
Sometimes it is what it is.

The BoE is stuck in the middle between the BoCC/munis and students. Without taxing authority the BoE is stuck and has limited options.

I'm going to call 911 but that doesn't mean the fire is going to be put out. Just like the BoE can write a letter asking for more money. At least the VFD here have taxing authority.

Government unfortunately doesn't operate or plan like the real world. I don't see any comprehensive plan coming out of this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys21 View Post
Show me the plan on how this would work. Show me the time-line. Show me the plan that deals with possible obstacles and how they would deal with them. There's no plan. It's a bunch of options that have been tossed around.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys21 View Post
I never said that they were never discussed. Those posts is what I was referencing. It was probably the only productive posts in the entire thread. But again, they were options. Not a plan. But at least there was thoughtful dialogue.
How much do you want to pay me to build this one out? As you can probably guess my billing rates are pretty high. I stopped crunching a couple of weeks ago but I've got the shells done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
3. K-6 = I may actually be ok with this if it were modified a little, one of the lower cost options and I'm not real sure about costs/$$$s they are using

- ES seats have the most capacity (2,478 seats open)
- MS seats are over capacity and need to be split up
- Redistrict ES's within cluster (some of the Kensington and New Town kids would go to Waxhaw, Waxhaw would split feed Parkwood, Cuthbertson, etc.)
- Add trailers where needed
......Only 6th graders would be in trailers at schools where used to create a 6th grade village away from the younger kids
........6th grade trailer villages include 6th grade media center trailer, band trailer, elective trailers
......NO OTHER TRAILER USE IN THE SYSTEM, only 6th graders and guaranteed for not more than 1 year
......All trailer villages made secure with security fencing
- Option without 6th grade trailer villages
......You could also maybe cluster 5th/6th graders into an existing school like SRES for Marvin Cluster, Waxhaw ES for Cuthbertson, etc., etc. and cut out trailers completely
......Always hated the idea of 6th graders with 8th graders (too much of a difference)
- Middle Schools become Jr. High Schools (7th and 8th grade)
- Create 9th grade Freshman schools at under utilized HS like Parkwood HS, Forest Hills HS, and ???
- High Schools would become Senior High Schools (HS utilized as 9th grade schools would be combined with other HS)
- 5 different bell schedules (ES, 5/6th, Jr HS, 9th, Sr HS)
- Transportation costs are the big unknown and would probably be an issue but it would force clusters together in 9th grade for one big happy community
- Again I haven't modeled it or know the numbers exactly but this might be palatable to all and sort of looks like it might work. Kids may even manage transitions better, who knows
- It's all about fully utilizing seats and buses
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