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Old 02-19-2014, 03:51 PM
 
527 posts, read 636,450 times
Reputation: 267

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mewith3 View Post
Tweet from Dedrick Russell: Just in:@UCPS_MonroeNC attorney says the county rejected offer from school district to pay $91M verdict over a length of time WBTV News

adding: Reporting on conditions within a capped school: Overcrowded conditions at one Union Co middle school - WBTV 3 News, Weather, Sports, and Traffic for Charlotte, NC
Good idea, put principals on camera and between the cross hairs... NOT

 
Old 02-19-2014, 03:54 PM
 
527 posts, read 636,450 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
Both you & cc0789 are bulling anybody who is against the redistricting. As a result this thread will get locked again (as it should).
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
I disagree with you. I am not a bully.
Let's test that self evaluation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Well with that attitude it's no wonder your kids don't understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
A coloring book... ;-) I can hardly wait for the 3-sided poster board presentation (complete with colorful spongy stick-on letters and glitter) at the next work session. Might as well wear her "Go Mavs" hoodie as well just for kicks and giggles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Marce Savage didn't say anything this evening that was a representation of Union County Schools as a whole. She is so obviously biased and tainted and *BLONDE (for lack of a better word)* - stammer, stammer, stammer -
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
I can't imagine Stewie whispered any grand new plans into Mike's ear last night. I think all of the options have already been laid out on the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Do you actually live in Union County? Just wondering. Four years? Please drive around and visit the places that you speak of. Simple math and a good old fashioned calculator may help in your journeys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Well hello there, 'First and Last'...
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Immediate removal of all trailers... Hmmmm, so we have all of those kiddos that were in the trailers sit outside in the 10 degree weather until the BOE reaches a decision on what to do? Gee, that is brilliant. I feel like I've seen this same comment about ten times from you - this roundabout, dog chasing it's tail, squirrels rummaging in the trees, directionless la-la-laaaa comment - - what are you TALKING about??? May I suggest doing this for a few minutes The common sense may return, although I can't say for sure...
So, all of that wasn't bullying, it was just constructive dialogue? uh, ok
 
Old 02-19-2014, 03:55 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,143,683 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
I never called you nave. Find where I said that. I didn't. I said that some folks are nave as to what goes on in their clusters of choice and assume that their kids are safer there. There is violence there too. And drug deals. And things need repair. And you get my gist. I want roofs to be repaired and holes to be filled and more kids in brick and mortar. THAT is my focus. I also don't want schools to be unsafe and at 120% capacity. I hear that you have your own issues such as long bus rides. But there is an entire county to consider and a BUDGET. I don't believe that spending money to keep kids at their home school trumps leaky roofs, and a lack of fencing around MCRs, and unsafe bathroom facilities. So just what do you propose to solve all of this? And how much would that cost? And would it address everything that needs to be addressed? That's my point. Complain all you want, but please have a constructive/doable/feasible/fiscally-responsible solution (otherwise it is just counter-productive complaining). That's why Marce Savage irritates me so. She doesn't bring anything tangible to the table. Just her own feelings and her dislike of redistricting.
I'm not going split hairs with you. We've been down that road previously, you know what you said, when you said it. Go back and read that section of this thread really carefully. If you don't feel that it was directed at me, then that's on you, whatever..

Lets compare Marce to Kevin when it comes to bringing anything to the able and expressing his feelings about redistricting shall we? BTW Marce, Yerchek and Hodges are the only board members that have even acknowledged any suggestion or requests for information that I have reached out for.

What I have proposed has already gone to the BOE; a lot of it is in various proposals (and no, MCRs are NOT the answer) and posts and so on and so on. Lets put it this way, it is very easy to say bus bus bus but it is a lot harder to think through the problem end to end and come up with solutions using the framework the the BOE has laid down (basically make it FREE). You should try it sometime. Take off your pro forced busing hat for once and try thinking through this problem without disrupting a whole bunch of families. Oh yeah I forgot, its all for the greater good...so never mind.

My thoughts are this though. When I have a tooth ache, I go see a dentist, when I have a car making funny noises, I go see a mechanic. No one in UCPS is a demographic expert, they are educators. They hired McKibben to only do part of the job. When they saw his analysis the knee jerk reaction was to bus bus and bus some more. It is very clear that the BOE is pretty darn clueless and it is very apparent that Dr. Ellis, is an academic and not qualified to undertake the huge task she has been presented with. To do this right, to make sure your kids get that space you so value, why not bring in some real experts that aren't academics or part-time elected officials? McKibben has a whole company that does this. Why not hire a demographic research consultant that could better figure out the best way to ease the overcrowding and not force bus 14% of the school's population. Does it really make sense to you to arbitrarily put schools under capacity in order to POSSIBLY fill them at a later date? Does it make sense to have one of the best elementary schools in the county sit way low in capacity when another is going to have trailers on site no matter who gets bussed? Does that sound right to you? This has been bungled at every level by everyone involved. It is so easy to sit back and say, well it is all for the common good, but you have to ask yourself, who common good is really getting served?

You want suggestions; okay why not offer the BOCC a settlement of half the $91 mil attached to an enforceable Adequate Facilities Ordnance that would temper the growth or at least make it a bit more manageable. Tie any challenge or overturn by courts or future boards to the rest of the $91mil. Might it give the BOCC some incentive to do the right thing? Why not put high tech & high math in some of these schools as an option? Why not build schools within schools? If Stewart is blaming low test scores on Latino and autistic kids, where is Dr. Ellis? Why is that being allowed? Why not recruit and partner with Private/Charter schools that have direct lines to funding through things like the Gates Foundation and the Fed. It would give the schools some oversight and would spend less money on infrastructure and on salaries. It would put kids in seats where they want to be and not just a byte on a spreadsheet. Why not create flex schools that could slide grades as needed? I am not in favor of doing the way it was proposed in the misery loves company plan, but flex schools could work. Why not do some demographic research and see if there could be a combination of replacing Western Union AND building Cuthbertson Elementary. You get a falling down school replaced and a new school with maybe more capacity that would be better located to serve everyone involved. If the bubble passes through the ES, then make it a middle school, or flex it back into something else. Can't do any of this for free, so I guess its hit the buses kids!

The other thing we need is some real transparency. While Croal's report was/is a hot mess, the one thing that you can get out of it, is that the goal line keeps moving. Why did schools have capacity levels that changed from 2009 to now? Why did some go up and some go down. Maybe there's a reason for it, but it hasn't been explained. Who set these numbers and what are they based on? No one seems to know or at least they aren't telling. Why are they willing to fill to watch level and beyond some of the schools that badly need repair yet leave perfectly good schools underutilized until maybe possibly sometime in the future they get filled up again.

Why aren't the parents being treated like stakeholders in this mess? Because they aren't willing to roll over and take it? Because Kevin is running around like an alpha male, pounding his chest to those in district two who got their feelings hurt by some stupid FB post that not one person can identify who did it? Do you think that they should just go for the okeedoke just because the BOE, Ellis et al says it is needed? 14%? 5,800 kids? Just to ease some space? How does any of that fix leaky roofs?

You and I will never agree. That has become apparent and I am pretty tired of the back and forth. You are for forced busing and I am not. You see it as an end to the means, I see it as an often used, misguided attempt at something that they will never accomplish. But just for one second, try to see it from where I sit. I agree that roofs leak and test scores are bad and yes some schools have more kids than they need. But look at how all this is being played, does it make any rational sense to you at all? Yes all kids should have an equal opportunity in a brick and mortar school building that is dry and safe, but we aren't there and this plan doesn't get us any closer to that.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 04:20 PM
 
631 posts, read 736,038 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
BoE has inhouse:
Michele Morris and contracted
Schwartz and Shaw from Raleigh

BoCC has inhouse:
Ligon Bundy
Recently hired another firm for the appeal.


My understanding is that Bundy sent the repairs agreement to the BoE counsel Tuesday morning for review. If the repairs agreement was based on the original repairs proposal letter I would say there were terms attached to the $3M for trailers.


$3M Trailer Letter: http://protectucps.files.wordpress.c...k-2-4-2014.pdf

"...If this is agreeable to the Board of Education, we would propose that our understanding be reduced to a written agreement similar to that currently under development for additional roofing appropriations. We look forward to your response.If this is agreeable to the Board of Education, we would propose that our understanding be reduced to a written agreement similar to that currently under development for additional roofing appropriations. We look forward to your response."


Roof Repair Letter: http://www.co.union.nc.us/Portals/0/...021%202014.pdf

"...This proposal should not be considered an offer to settle the appeal of the jury's verdict rendered last year, Instead this is an offer to address the roofing needs. The terms of this proposal are:

1. Regardless of the outcome of the appeal, the $5,357,859 appropriated by Union County in October, 2013 will be credited to pay the balance of the UCPS capital outlay request contained in its 2013-2014 budget request.

2. Union County would immediately appropriate to UCPS the additional amount of $9,578,595 to be used solely for those roofing projects identified in the spreadsheet attached to your January 14, 2014, letter, plus the emerging roofing project at Parkwood High School further described in the letter. UCPS would use its best efforts to expedite the repair and/or replacement of these roofs prior to the end of the current fiscal year.

3. In the event Union County does not prevail in its appeal of the portion of the judgment related to capital outlay and the judgment is affirmed, UCPS would credit the amount of $14,936,454 against the jury award for capital outlay, which amount is the sum of $9,578,595 plus the $5,357,859 already appropriated by the Board of Commissioners.

4. In the event Union County prevails in its appeal of the pot1ion of the judgment related to capital outlay and UCPS is not entitled to a retrial of the capital outlay portion of its claim, or is entitled only to a retrial of the portion of the 2013-2014 capital outlay request that Union County did not fund when it adopted its 2013-2014 budget, UCPS would credit the amount of$5,357,859 against the 2013-2014 capital outlay budget request, in full satisfaction of its capital outlay request for the fiscal year 2013-2014.

5. In the event Union County prevails in its appeal of the capital outlay portion of the judgment and UCPS is entitled to, and pursues, re-trial on capital outlay, the amount of $14,936,454 would be credited against any subsequent capital outlay judgment rendered against the County on re-trial.

6. The terms of this arrangement would need to be reduced to a written agreement executed by both parties and approved by the court, if necessary."
Sunshine is just picking on me because I said there were 7 terms and there are only 6!

Thanks for posting the details. So it WAS Bundy from the BOCC that they talked to earlier in the day. And then The BOCC changes story mid meeting? This is insane and childish and hurting the whole county.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 04:38 PM
 
451 posts, read 608,147 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooLogical View Post
Sunshine is just picking on me because I said there were 7 terms and there are only 6!

Thanks for posting the details. So it WAS Bundy from the BOCC that they talked to earlier in the day. And then The BOCC changes story mid meeting? This is insane and childish and hurting the whole county.
No-Only 5 terms, 6 points. Now I am picking on you.

I don't think the BoCC changed its story mid meeting. I don't think some people really ever read the letters. Helms didn't understand the fund balance issue and stepped in it with his emails so this really shouldn't be that surprising. Just look back at the meeting where the made the $3M offer it was sort of like a proclamation to the county manager to make it so. The only thing on paper was the press release. They stepped in it big when they went on FB last night. Then again we haven't seen the actually agreement.

A certain FB group has clearly become the BoCC's mouth piece. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of relationship before last night.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 04:43 PM
 
148 posts, read 417,662 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineCJ View Post
No-Only 5. Now I am picking on you.

I don't think the BoCC changed its story mid meeting. I don't think some people really ever read the letters. Helms didn't understand the fund balance issue and stepped in it with his emails so this really shouldn't be that surprising. Just look back at the meeting where the made the $3M offer it was sort of like a proclamation to the city manager to make it so. The only thing on paper was the press release. They stepped in it big when they went on FB last night. Then again we haven't seen the actually agreement.

A certain FB group has clearly become the BoCC's mouth piece. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of relationship before last night.
What group on FB do you think is the BOCC mouth piece?
Just curious.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 05:26 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,016 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxhawMike View Post
Let's test that self evaluation...
So, all of that wasn't bullying, it was just constructive dialogue? uh, ok


Oh good grief. It's called sarcasm. Are you for real? But thank you for putting so much time and effort into finding all of those statements, cropping them, and posting. That's what I mean about folks wasting time and effort on the wrong things. Next.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 05:34 PM
 
527 posts, read 636,450 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
[/b]
Oh good grief. It's called sarcasm. Are you for real? But thank you for putting so much time and effort into finding all of those statements, cropping them, and posting. That's what I mean about folks wasting time and effort on the wrong things. Next.
Your track record speaks for itself... I'm glad that you think "sarcasm" has a place in this very serious debate... anyway, there's so much material that it took all of 30 seconds... but now that Kevin Stewart is promoting my preferred plan I have plenty of free time anyway.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 05:38 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,016 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlat View Post
I'm not going split hairs with you. We've been down that road previously, you know what you said, when you said it. Go back and read that section of this thread really carefully. If you don't feel that it was directed at me, then that's on you, whatever..

Lets compare Marce to Kevin when it comes to bringing anything to the able and expressing his feelings about redistricting shall we? BTW Marce, Yerchek and Hodges are the only board members that have even acknowledged any suggestion or requests for information that I have reached out for.

What I have proposed has already gone to the BOE; a lot of it is in various proposals (and no, MCRs are NOT the answer) and posts and so on and so on. Lets put it this way, it is very easy to say bus bus bus but it is a lot harder to think through the problem end to end and come up with solutions using the framework the the BOE has laid down (basically make it FREE). You should try it sometime. Take off your pro forced busing hat for once and try thinking through this problem without disrupting a whole bunch of families. Oh yeah I forgot, its all for the greater good...so never mind.

My thoughts are this though. When I have a tooth ache, I go see a dentist, when I have a car making funny noises, I go see a mechanic. No one in UCPS is a demographic expert, they are educators. They hired McKibben to only do part of the job. When they saw his analysis the knee jerk reaction was to bus bus and bus some more. It is very clear that the BOE is pretty darn clueless and it is very apparent that Dr. Ellis, is an academic and not qualified to undertake the huge task she has been presented with. To do this right, to make sure your kids get that space you so value, why not bring in some real experts that aren't academics or part-time elected officials? McKibben has a whole company that does this. Why not hire a demographic research consultant that could better figure out the best way to ease the overcrowding and not force bus 14% of the school's population. Does it really make sense to you to arbitrarily put schools under capacity in order to POSSIBLY fill them at a later date? Does it make sense to have one of the best elementary schools in the county sit way low in capacity when another is going to have trailers on site no matter who gets bussed? Does that sound right to you? This has been bungled at every level by everyone involved. It is so easy to sit back and say, well it is all for the common good, but you have to ask yourself, who common good is really getting served?

You want suggestions; okay why not offer the BOCC a settlement of half the $91 mil attached to an enforceable Adequate Facilities Ordnance that would temper the growth or at least make it a bit more manageable. Tie any challenge or overturn by courts or future boards to the rest of the $91mil. Might it give the BOCC some incentive to do the right thing? Why not put high tech & high math in some of these schools as an option? Why not build schools within schools? If Stewart is blaming low test scores on Latino and autistic kids, where is Dr. Ellis? Why is that being allowed? Why not recruit and partner with Private/Charter schools that have direct lines to funding through things like the Gates Foundation and the Fed. It would give the schools some oversight and would spend less money on infrastructure and on salaries. It would put kids in seats where they want to be and not just a byte on a spreadsheet. Why not create flex schools that could slide grades as needed? I am not in favor of doing the way it was proposed in the misery loves company plan, but flex schools could work. Why not do some demographic research and see if there could be a combination of replacing Western Union AND building Cuthbertson Elementary. You get a falling down school replaced and a new school with maybe more capacity that would be better located to serve everyone involved. If the bubble passes through the ES, then make it a middle school, or flex it back into something else. Can't do any of this for free, so I guess its hit the buses kids!

The other thing we need is some real transparency. While Croal's report was/is a hot mess, the one thing that you can get out of it, is that the goal line keeps moving. Why did schools have capacity levels that changed from 2009 to now? Why did some go up and some go down. Maybe there's a reason for it, but it hasn't been explained. Who set these numbers and what are they based on? No one seems to know or at least they aren't telling. Why are they willing to fill to watch level and beyond some of the schools that badly need repair yet leave perfectly good schools underutilized until maybe possibly sometime in the future they get filled up again.

Why aren't the parents being treated like stakeholders in this mess? Because they aren't willing to roll over and take it? Because Kevin is running around like an alpha male, pounding his chest to those in district two who got their feelings hurt by some stupid FB post that not one person can identify who did it? Do you think that they should just go for the okeedoke just because the BOE, Ellis et al says it is needed? 14%? 5,800 kids? Just to ease some space? How does any of that fix leaky roofs?

You and I will never agree. That has become apparent and I am pretty tired of the back and forth. You are for forced busing and I am not. You see it as an end to the means, I see it as an often used, misguided attempt at something that they will never accomplish. But just for one second, try to see it from where I sit. I agree that roofs leak and test scores are bad and yes some schools have more kids than they need. But look at how all this is being played, does it make any rational sense to you at all? Yes all kids should have an equal opportunity in a brick and mortar school building that is dry and safe, but we aren't there and this plan doesn't get us any closer to that.
I do empathize. I have put myself in your situation (and have personally BEEN in similar situations). And I'm very sorry that there are so many people and kids being uprooted. It isn't fair. I get that. I'm sure you are an amazing parent and want the best for your kids. I do too if you can believe that. Although I'm sure you'll chuckle again and mock me. You are correct. I don't think this is as big a deal as many do. I had long bus rides as a kid. My child has been moved to multiple schools via redistricting four times. I'm not saying it isn't upsetting. I'm just saying that it's a public school system with a budget and guidelines and an interest in the greater good of THOUSANDS of kids and families. That is a BIG job, in my opinion, and I think most board members are doing the best they can. I truly feel that people who do not embrace change and the well-advertised possibility of redistricting really should explore other options that are less apt to pose said risks. So let's just agree to disagree on redistricting.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 06:13 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,016 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxhawMike View Post
Your track record speaks for itself... I'm glad that you think "sarcasm" has a place in this very serious debate... anyway, there's so much material that it took all of 30 seconds... but now that Kevin Stewart is promoting my preferred plan I have plenty of free time anyway.
I don't think we are discussing the ethical implications of removing a person from life support here, so a little sarcasm and wit is reasonable IMHO. Talking about a coloring book for Savage was just silly banter. I apologize for offending you if you took offense to my wink (but it honestly scares me at how biased she is - and she does stammer quite a bit). By the way, I'm glad things are looking up for you!! Time to take a break and put your feet up, yes? Your "preferred plan" being promoted means you can finally stop working overtime and relax, after all. Most "serious debates" warrant less work when we seem to be getting our way. Amazing how that works.
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