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Old 11-13-2013, 01:50 PM
 
305 posts, read 659,530 times
Reputation: 216

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
False argument. I'm not talking about cuts, I taking about being able to attend a school local to your house because that is what people paid for. People pay more to live near better performing schools. The county and school use the property tax system to get more money from those home owners. If they didn't care they'd pay less for homes out in eastern Union. Why bother paying more money for a house in Weddington if you zoned for a school in Monroe? And people will not. And housing prices will drop and less revenue will be brought in and the county looses. It has nothing to do with the RIGHT of any kid to get an education. They all are getting one.
And that is the basis of the problem. We moved into an area that was growing rapidly, run by elected officials who had agendas counter to the priorities of the constituents when it comes to education. And now we are reaping the consequences.

Unfortunately, I think that even with the overcrowding and capping, etc. trying to raise support among taxpayers for new schools would be a hard sell given that the economy still hasn't truly recovered.

 
Old 11-13-2013, 02:10 PM
 
38 posts, read 49,879 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
I'm not saying people on the border should get the shaft, or that it doesn't matter, or that I wouldn't be doing everything in my power to change it, or that I wouldn't be considering moving or putting my kid in private school. If I were in your shoes, I would be concerned, alarmed, and would be searching for alternatives. I get it, I do.

My point is that it isn't all a conspiracy theory. If you look at the map, the school locations, the current boundary lines, and the enrollment numbers.... it makes sense. FACT: First priority is safety, and you can't squeeze unlimited children into safe locations during a tornado, lock down, or other emergency. FACT: You have to relieve overcrowding and utilize your currently available space. FACT: You have to adjust the numbers geographically so that it makes sense.

So there isn't much choice to where you put people on the border of the county. They really usually have one logical place to go..... maybe, just maybe, two. Neighborhoods in the middle of the county where there are FIVE boundary lines meeting are naturally going to be subject to more shuffling. I'm not saying its good, fair, right, anybody is better than anyone else..... I'm just saying it is logical.

Now just as a piece of advice, because I do think you should write letters, emails, go to the meetings, etc to advocate for what is best for your child:
When you don't take the facts into consideration and try to understand where the BOE is coming from in their decision, when you come of with a sense of entitlement because of how much you paid for your home, when you accuse those making decisions of making them for political ploys, when you blame the county for growth when you are living in one of the neighborhoods that was a direct contribution to the MUCH bigger overcrowding mess we had a few years ago.... you won't be taken seriously.

Print out the maps, look over the numbers, see which schools are crowded and which has room, look at the projection of growth, and seek an educated alternative. If the projection for growth shows the need for another school in the next 4 years, lobby hard with Union County Commissioners, as they will be the ones responsible for approving those funds. Base your requests on facts and not on emotion, and you will get further.

Its a long shot, and you might end up in Parkwood. But also remember.... Parkwood was where we were ALL zoned before Marvin, Cuthbertson, and Weddington were built..... not very long ago. And elementary school kids went to Wesley Chapel. Imagine picking up those two places if they were car riders. Those living in Hunter Oaks rode a bus ALL THE WAY to Parkwood. They did. They survived. And you were the one that said that the school is what you put into it. That is very true. Parental involvement is the primary indicator if your child will succeed, and you are obviously very involved.

Nobody likes change, I don't. I don't blame you for being upset, I wouldn't want my kid to be moved either. Even from Parkwood to Marvin.... I value stability for my kid, but we can't all get what we want. But this isn't a these people vs. those people kind of thing. I really don't want to be a part of the animosity this thread has turned out to be, and I apologize if I offended you with anything I said. I'm just trying to spell out the facts and point out that the county has different needs throughout that all need to be addressed... there were overcrowding issues before most of us got here, and the county is doing the best they can.
You act as if they are making a logical, common-sense decision that we might have seen coming. We purchased a home 2 miles from the elementary and 3.5 miles from the middle/high schools we thought were best for our child. The next closest elementary and middle/high are also 2 and 3.5 miles respectively - and we're acceptable options to us (Wesley Chapel and Weddington). The next closest would be sun valley (5 miles) which is already over capacity. It does not make logical, rational sense at all to send these relatively few kids 11 miles away to an underperforming school, which will also be at capacity if these changes go through. Conspiracy theory, no, but being used in a feeble, ill-conceived attempt to raise test scores and "balance" demographics, absolutely!

Yes, the Feds are pushing schools to eliminate portables but with the current predictions all the shuffling will not provide the seats needed in the next 3 years- unless the growth stops as a result of the shuffling.
 
Old 11-13-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,416,909 times
Reputation: 4818
Based on what is being proposed to the BoE the issue of capping is for the Middle schools... logic dictates that any Elementary redistricting would be to address the Middle school assignments, regardless of the available capacity in other Elementary schools.
 
Old 11-13-2013, 02:57 PM
 
2,084 posts, read 3,571,026 times
Reputation: 2059
What I don't get is how is it possible to have overcrowding in middle school and not in elementary and high school (in same cluster)?

This could happen for two reasons:
1) no proper planning (aka basic math) when school clusters were developed
2) most parents who moved here in the last couple of years have middle school kids...

Regardless, this will throw a wrench in the real-estate market value in UC...
 
Old 11-13-2013, 03:18 PM
 
1,226 posts, read 2,051,302 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
What I don't get is how is it possible to have overcrowding in middle school and not in elementary and high school (in same cluster)?

This could happen for two reasons:
1) no proper planning (aka basic math) when school clusters were developed
2) most parents who moved here in the last couple of years have middle school kids...

Regardless, this will throw a wrench in the real-estate market value in UC...
whaaaa??? I really wish people would do basic research before criticizing the system. Here is your basic math: elementary schools are built to house 804 kids. There is 3 elementary schools to a cluster. When 3 5th grade classes come together to go to their respective class, they make 400 students (134 times 3). 400 students each in 6,7, and 8th grade make 1200 students, which is the middle school capacity. 400 students in 9,10,11, and 12 grade make 1600 students, which is the high school capacity. There is your basic math for the development of clusters.

Now do you think that every year exactly 134 kindergartners register at each one of the 3 individual cluster elementary schools. and then they all get together to form exactly 400 students per grade to equal 1200 middle school slots and 1600 high school slots. And if someone sells their house, they have to replace their first grader with a first grader and their freshman with a freshman?

Just look at the enrollment numbers for the last 7 years, there has been a bubble amongst the 6th, 7th, and 8th graders since kindergarten. When they entered the elementary schools, the elementary schools were overcrowded, and the middle was fine. And news flash: when they get to high school, the high school will be overcrowded, and the middle school will be fine.

That's why they use temporary solutions for temporary problems, and permanent solutions for permanent ones. And that is why the BOE tunes most residents out, because they come armed with questions like "why didn't you do basic math", when all the info is out there for you to see before your criticism.
 
Old 11-13-2013, 05:11 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,366 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
I'm not saying people on the border should get the shaft, or that it doesn't matter, or that I wouldn't be doing everything in my power to change it, or that I wouldn't be considering moving or putting my kid in private school. If I were in your shoes, I would be concerned, alarmed, and would be searching for alternatives. I get it, I do.

My point is that it isn't all a conspiracy theory. If you look at the map, the school locations, the current boundary lines, and the enrollment numbers.... it makes sense. FACT: First priority is safety, and you can't squeeze unlimited children into safe locations during a tornado, lock down, or other emergency. FACT: You have to relieve overcrowding and utilize your currently available space. FACT: You have to adjust the numbers geographically so that it makes sense.

So there isn't much choice to where you put people on the border of the county. They really usually have one logical place to go..... maybe, just maybe, two. Neighborhoods in the middle of the county where there are FIVE boundary lines meeting are naturally going to be subject to more shuffling. I'm not saying its good, fair, right, anybody is better than anyone else..... I'm just saying it is logical.

Now just as a piece of advice, because I do think you should write letters, emails, go to the meetings, etc to advocate for what is best for your child:
When you don't take the facts into consideration and try to understand where the BOE is coming from in their decision, when you come of with a sense of entitlement because of how much you paid for your home, when you accuse those making decisions of making them for political ploys, when you blame the county for growth when you are living in one of the neighborhoods that was a direct contribution to the MUCH bigger overcrowding mess we had a few years ago.... you won't be taken seriously.

Print out the maps, look over the numbers, see which schools are crowded and which has room, look at the projection of growth, and seek an educated alternative. If the projection for growth shows the need for another school in the next 4 years, lobby hard with Union County Commissioners, as they will be the ones responsible for approving those funds. Base your requests on facts and not on emotion, and you will get further.

Its a long shot, and you might end up in Parkwood. But also remember.... Parkwood was where we were ALL zoned before Marvin, Cuthbertson, and Weddington were built..... not very long ago. And elementary school kids went to Wesley Chapel. Imagine picking up those two places if they were car riders. Those living in Hunter Oaks rode a bus ALL THE WAY to Parkwood. They did. They survived. And you were the one that said that the school is what you put into it. That is very true. Parental involvement is the primary indicator if your child will succeed, and you are obviously very involved.

Nobody likes change, I don't. I don't blame you for being upset, I wouldn't want my kid to be moved either. Even from Parkwood to Marvin.... I value stability for my kid, but we can't all get what we want. But this isn't a these people vs. those people kind of thing. I really don't want to be a part of the animosity this thread has turned out to be, and I apologize if I offended you with anything I said. I'm just trying to spell out the facts and point out that the county has different needs throughout that all need to be addressed... there were overcrowding issues before most of us got here, and the county is doing the best they can.

Thank you so much for summing all of that up. You have put into words what looking at the big picture is all about and I believe it is SO important that people don't develop tunnel vision in the midst of all of this. Back when I was a kid our bus ride was from Hemby Road in Weddington all the way to Sun Valley High. That was the closest school! I don't remember for one second thinking it was awful. It was JUST SCHOOL. And if I was able to graduate 5th in my class at a country bumpkin school out in the cow fields, your kids can too. What you think you have paid for is what all of your neighbors believe as well - the very real fact, though, is that all of these children just won't fit right now! Something HAS to happen (and rest assured, it will). I'm sure at some point there will be another new school and all will be well for another few years. But as long as there is growth, there will be capping and rezoning and unhappy campers. Just the facts. Just common sense.
 
Old 11-13-2013, 05:57 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,852 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
Yes, and county commissioners voted it down. And we shall all remember that come elections.
That was two boards ago, nobody that is on the board now had anything to do with that ordinance getting voted down. Those guys got all voted out of office because the voted down the ordinance, their replacements never brought it up again.

Again, to all that read this. (cc I'm just using your thread as a rant) Our county board is basically made up of 5 people, 3 of which vote in a single block, the other two ran unopposed. Their campaigns were all finance by the developers, and construction support company owners (Boggs Paving, McKee Brick etc.). The state would have to approve any type of impact fees and the state isn't about to do that. So when you ask why fees aren't being level it goes all the way back to the state level. The growth in the county stemmed when the economy when south, but now, building is back and the developers don't give a rats rear where your kids go to school.
 
Old 11-13-2013, 06:13 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,852 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelbug71 View Post
"According to the Union County Public Schools, enrollment for 2009-20010 was 38,539 and school capacity was 44,586. Plans for expansion will increase capacity to 44,736. Estimates show that this capacity will be sufficient through 2014-2015. The Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance helps the school district ensure that capacity is available for students before new student generating development (i.e., residential development) is approved."
The APFO never saw the light of day. The BOCC smashed that down years ago.

Quote:
We're new here, but seriously? Is government corruption and negligence so rampant that everyone just bends over, or is it apathy?
Build the schools where they are needed, downsize the ones that aren't. We all know the money is there. These political games are going to destroy your county.
You may know that the county owns the purse strings for the schools. NC is one of the few states where the schools have to beg for dollars and can't float their own bonds to fund schools. Is our gov't corrupt? Depends on who you ask. At one time they were, now I think that they are mostly incompetent, with a small side order of corruption.

It's easy to say build me more schools, but in actuality, it ain't happening in the UC without a big dog fight. As they say...It's happened before...it will happen again.


Quote:
As to the few of you whining about the wealthy and privileged and accusing us concerned parents of not wanting a good education for all children, unless you can show where we are demanding better facilities, teacher pay or resources than are available in other parts of the county, your ad hominem attacks are meaningless. What is your motivation anyway? Title 1 schools actually get much more money and resources than the better performing schools. They have some of the most dedicated, hardworking, devoted teachers. Rock Rest elementary (where the meeting was last night) is a beautiful facility with some amazing staff. So, the lower performing schools have the same resources, money and teachers, and they are not overcrowded or at threat each year of being bussed far from their community. Rather than accusing those of us working our tails off to ensure that our children have a good education of being "arrogant and entitled" you should embrace the reality that effort=results.
I don't disagree, there are some really good schools like Waxhaw, Rock Rest and Rocky River, however there are just as many that have lots of problems. Monroe, Piedmont, Parkwood Middle, Walter Bickett, Sun Valley all have some issues that could and should be addressed. The Porter Ridge cluster was promised relief years ago and never got it. In fact the next schools that are to be built in 2015 are in their cluster. It will be 2020 or later before new school construction comes back around to the west side. As long a there are relatively close schools with capacity, there will be redistricting about every 3 years.
 
Old 11-13-2013, 06:18 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,852 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by somersmom View Post
And that is the basis of the problem. We moved into an area that was growing rapidly, run by elected officials who had agendas counter to the priorities of the constituents when it comes to education. And now we are reaping the consequences.

Unfortunately, I think that even with the overcrowding and capping, etc. trying to raise support among taxpayers for new schools would be a hard sell given that the economy still hasn't truly recovered.
Very good points. Also people need to keep in mind that the BOE and BOCC have no working relationship now. Until the lawsuit is paid or settled, there won't be any money coming in for new schools or a paper clip for that matter.
 
Old 11-13-2013, 06:29 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,852 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelbug71 View Post
You act as if they are making a logical, common-sense decision that we might have seen coming. We purchased a home 2 miles from the elementary and 3.5 miles from the middle/high schools we thought were best for our child. The next closest elementary and middle/high are also 2 and 3.5 miles respectively - and we're acceptable options to us (Wesley Chapel and Weddington). The next closest would be sun valley (5 miles) which is already over capacity. It does not make logical, rational sense at all to send these relatively few kids 11 miles away to an underperforming school, which will also be at capacity if these changes go through. Conspiracy theory, no, but being used in a feeble, ill-conceived attempt to raise test scores and "balance" demographics, absolutely!

Yes, the Feds are pushing schools to eliminate portables but with the current predictions all the shuffling will not provide the seats needed in the next 3 years- unless the growth stops as a result of the shuffling.
Actually...cc is making some pretty good points. I totally get the frustration and I am a parent of two kids affected by this. BUT, in Union County, if you buy a house, there is no guarantee of any school, whether you live 2 miles or 2 feet. Never has been, never will be. If anyone buys a house in this county based on that assumption..... it isn't realistic. I live as close to Marvin as I do to Parkwood, I live closer to Weddington than I do Cuthbertson, my kids go to Cuthbertson, but will probably end up at Parkwood. I can fight it, stomp my feet and be all incensed but in the end, it isn't the BOE's issue. The feds have cracked down on mobiles and have told the BOE that trailers <> funding. So what are they going to do? Go ahead and put trailers out there and let the feds cut their funding? Don't think so. I also agree that part of this has to do with test scores quite frankly. The BOE sees an opportunity to raise test scores in a school that has capacity to take students. It isn't their role to make sure kids get to go to the school that is right next to their house. It is their role to make sure that all kids in the county get a good education in a safe environment. '

At the end of the day it is the uncontrolled growth the BOCC allowed by their developer friends and the lack of impact fees imposed on developers that are to blame. That's where the angst needs to be directed.
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