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Old 03-01-2014, 07:25 PM
 
305 posts, read 659,077 times
Reputation: 216

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Quote:
Originally Posted by raithfan View Post
Somersmom...love the heart surgery analogy. My wife and I have always "talked" about homeschooling at one time or another. Then something shiny flashes on tv and we realize we would fail miserably. We have been very impressed with UC teachers. They truly seem to have their heart in it. The more I hear about the miserly compensation the angrier I become. We came from a district with a heavy union presence. The teachers did not seem to have a fraction of the passion of the teachers I have encounter in UC. You can bet my next efforts will be to get the schools up to date while pushing for better teacher wages. Question..are teachers paid by the state or the district?

Now that I see you are an educator I am embarrassed by the past, and self conscious of any future, post I may write....ugh
We also moved from a place with a heavy teacher union presence, community-based schools and a healthy dose of demanding parents. There were good and bad things about the education system there, just like people are finding good and bad things about the school system here.

Teachers in NC are mainly paid by the state. You can go to the NC Dept. of Public Instruction's website and look up how much teachers get depending on years of experience, degrees, etc. Each local district can choose to kick in a little more. CMS pays the highest supplement in the state; Union is not that far behind. But if you follow the news, you'll see that NC pays less than surrounding states and is pretty far down the list of states.

Don't worry, I don't have my mental red pen out when I come to CD!

 
Old 03-01-2014, 09:35 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,143,939 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkerbooboo View Post
Hey y’all. Thanks for answering my questions and making some comments on my “proposal”. I appreciate that- helps me sort things out. It took me a while to catch up- I just read all the recent posts- always so illuminating. Thank God for City Data!! It has also been really heartbreaking watching events unfold in this whole debacle- esp meetings this week. It’s late in the game, but I wanted to get some ideas out there as the BoE is almost finished- For better or worse, the end is nigh!

So at this point in the process, these are my updated observations/questions thoughts so far.. if anyone wants to chew, bite, throw up- have at it! We’ve got 3 days to put it all on the table, right?

Somewhere a while back (and I thought it was on this board??) someone had clarified/suggested that the 91 million figure was arrived at because forensic accounting was done during the trial and the funds were shown to be available in BOCC coffers, yes? True? So where in blazes is it now?

In my opinion, (you all were talking about this a few pages back) I’m sorry to say, I think taxes will HAVE to go up (regardless of the judgement), and there are several reasons for this: (None are the fault of the BOE btw- so why are the good guys attacked??))

Quick overdevelopment of residential areas
Inadequate accompanying infrastructure (including schools)
Lack of any controlled growth planning (Marvin now has plan I believe- yes!)
Apathetic, weak or unorganized responses by citizens
Successive intentional repression of tax increases- ie. inadequate revenue stream
Recession of 2007-2009- (Yes, the sub-prime mortgages nationally- but also let’s not forget our own local scandal with the builder kickbacks! That was bad!)
No commercial development (I know- no one wants this- but $$$$)
Etc Etc

Now, after UC has been holding steady for a few years at artificially low levels of revenue- suddenly everything has to be fixed at once.. and it MUST be done now- it’s critical. Classic tale of The Ants and the Grasshopper. Fiddle today, and pay the piper tomorrow.

BOCC says they are in debt now. Naturally. Undoubtedly true due to their mismanagement. The drumbeat broadcasting of this fact is a purposeful pre-emptive strike on their part. Just a little foreshadowing of how they are going to act when we demand they finally ante up on the new schools and repairs rightfully and necessarily due. And mind you I believe we the people will need closer to 180 mil just to get us caught up. JMHO! Yes, that first 91 mil will help some new schools come online and get all repairs and upgrades done- but then we are going to need at least another whole cluster in the near future (takes 3 yrs!) and didn’t someone say that’s another 90 mil or so? And this will barely address the growth that’s still coming. As the economy rebounds it IS coming, and it is all coming near Cuthbertson cluster… south of them and then to the southwest and southeast toward Parkwood- into that beautiful farmland. ☹ Will they enact controlled growth there now- esp Waxhaw council? I challenge you to hold your breath…

You may disagree, but I believe we are actually experiencing artificially stagnated growth right now. Why? The capping and now the redistricting uproar/ animosity have just about stopped all homesales in their tracks. Houses in the Cuth cluster are desperately coming on the MLS at a rate of 5-10 a week since the school maps were announced. (Yeah it’s spring too, but note how many are in Cuth vs elsewhere). This slew is adding to already ruckus-frozen market of homes just sitting since Nov 13th. Not to mention 10 new-built houses going online per day in the same area!

I personally think home sales WILL go nuts once again- but only once the schools are settled- and not temporarily! Then there will be sales like wildfire in newly cleared acreage for tract houses in the explosive Cuthbertson area once again, but also moderate sales in established saturated communities as turnovers are allowed to happen.. and those with graduated kids move out.

Therefore, call me crazy, but I think the redistricting plan is necessary, reasonable- and may even be underestimating growth in certain areas! I do not think I am alone!

I also am very fed up with the purposeful misinformation out there. It hurts everyone.

The BOCC is unfairly using citizens who don’t understand what is going on- They are hurting the very constituents they are riling up!

I won’t waste my time typing out the BOCC faults- too many. But they need to be replaced by professional, mature, fiscally responsible representatives immediately.

I would love to see them to do the following positive things if they cared about this county at all.. (again, please do not hold your breath!)

Cease and desist with antics and theatrics.
Explain to the public where the 91 mil went and hand it over.
Stop wasting our money in litigation- you did this to your d***selves.
BTW, start working on the bond issue for the next 80 mil also…
If you want to reduce cost on all that– well then do your job and be proactive- go out and make the rounds visiting Duke Energy or MetLife or any Bill Gates types in Charlotte – ANYONE who can get us a heap of money for a new cluster to be built on the south central/east side of the county
**** Insist (PASS A LAW) that Realtors/Developers selling homes in Union Co. MUST disclose school clusters and possible redistricting in Union County or they will be held liable for the entire cost of the home sale. Right now they are still NOT telling their clients what is up, and they should be held as criminals. I would recommend disclosure 3 times during the selling process. Upon first meeting, upon offer, and once more upon closing****
Get the municipalities to create and enforce controlled growth plans
FIX your county!

Savage and Hodges, too, are acting just as irresponsibly as the BOCC by feeding their constituents incorrect information, rumor, innuendo, and worst of all, false hopes. It has been very upsetting to watch... Especially in these last 2 recorded meetings. I am amazed at the patience, maturity and composure the other board members maintain in the meetings when these two are so clearly, well, to be polite.. er, not ever going to understand. (The 7 remaining members must shout and throw things at their spouses when they get home!) I personally think the BoE as a whole are absolute saints to have to work so hard at this while being lightning rods for everyone in the public who is so angry for his/her individual situation. As someone on here was just saying, it would not be safe at all for someone to stand up and side with the Board at a public meeting- you will be crucified. Witch Trials! Your children would be orphans! Better to just write your ideas here! ☺

You all have pointed out so many instances of where S & H simply do not understand the most basic concepts. It has been evident this week that they literally do not know what the BoE is talking about most of the time. It’s sad, but true. THEY are the ones that should be recalled for not doing their jobs. Savage isn’t even representing the interests of her own voters- just her friends! Her community is Marvin where the middle school (and high school) needs relief and the whole town needs the @#$&* cap lifted! Unbelievable.

Related to Savage and wrong information- How many poor misguided speakers in the public hearing and and FB posts were still insisting buses will cost money and do not GET it!? They do hours of wasted calculations and not understand that the efficiency will be based on the new maps for August. It is like talking to a wall.

Savage obviously doesn’t get the bus deal either- and she is a blinkin’ BOARD MEMBER! One more time- THE STATE BUSSING PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING UNTIL THE NEW CLUSTER LINES ARE RE-DRAWN. THEN, the school must operate within those NEW lines with 95% efficiency. Cost of gas 0. Cost of buses 0. Cost of miles 0. TOTAL COST 0.
(but adding any redundancy/capped buses in after that would add cost)

Then, of course, S & H and Company continually perpetuate the “it’s only 280 over cap” myth. They do not grasp the concept that too many schools are crowded and operating over CORE CAPACITY -and even THAT is despite growth has already been artificially reigned in due to the capping and other factors. They have no understanding of why a school should operate at core. Hopeless.

Several public speakers were also still insisting that the district’s version of GFing or “natural transitions” means all kids stay in their current clusters K-12 as long as they get rides. THIS CANNOT BE THE CASE! IF it were true it would make no sense- the numbers would create no relief! If you remember, I asked you all if the Board could actually be meaning this- as a sanity check to make sure I wasn’t missing something. So MANY people I would run into were espousing this idea in conversations, I was starting to get really nervous! I think the anti-redistricting group wants desperately to believe in this idea as their Last Great Hope, so it got changed as people “telephoned” the idea to one another after the meeting where it was proposed? sigh

I asked you all also about address caps a while back which I think Hodges was bringing up some version of again- but why?- it doesn’t much help HER group. They are simply getting squeezed due to geographically being on the border of several school clusters at once. Address capping fictious Cherry Blossom which hasn’t been approved yet will not help her area getting bumped by overdevelopment that happened elsewhere ALREADY. But she should be advocating that the coming New Cluster go in right in her area to keep her people from getting shifted every year! One of you also mentioned about a FB group advocating for address caps going back even past the current caps to remove people in reverse order? Like maybe back to under CORE capacity? Intriguing, well…

All I can think about with this idea is that the Cuthbertson area folks are certainly one of the loudest “cap the new people, don’t move us- We were here first” factions. Yet this is absurd- They were here last! (majority wise I mean) If we truly did go backwards from time each house was built, it would be the very houses around Cuthbertson that are in the majority of those sold most recently -and they would be the the first on the redistricting block! That would extremely fair to implement in some ways- but alas too impractical! Too bad- it would certainly demonstrate the hypocrisy! We need development- just SMART development!

And then there is the ever popular “excessive mileage and the driving past our home school to go to the other school” argument. As Dr Webb stated- the longest distance a redistricted child will have to be transported is 9.4 miles. Not great, I will absolutely admit. NO ONE prefers that! Yet, right now, in the midst of all the arguing, a capped kid in Marvin- in isolation from his peers, whose parents bought a ranch built in 1974 and closed on it Nov 12th, 2013, who hasn’t met any of his neighborhood/town peers –is boarding a cap bus daily to travel 23 miles ONE WAY down to Parkwood. They have been silently sucking it up since Nov- doing that RIGHT NOW- AND NO ONE IS STANDING UP FOR THEM. THIS is MORE fair? Where is Savage on THIS? NOWHERE!

And let’s just get real for a sec about capping- It is already wrecking the house sales and business growth in UC. It is choking the very revenue we all so sorely need! Hello? We might not like it, but redistricting does actually fulfill the citizens' rights to public education, after all. But capping? Capping restricts free trade, personal property ownership, liberty, commerce, and one’s ability to move freely to make a living- a person's very LIVELIHOOD- so now we are actually getting all UNCONSTITUTIONAL up in here for Pete’s sake! Crippling artificial financial stagnation…

OF COURSE it is definitely not a happy thing if a family is singled out to go to a free new school that they don’t like as much as their old free school. I DO get it. But it is FREE. And as some have said, maybe it is also an opportunity for children to learn more valuable lessons than they will EVER earn in a mere classroom. It is as we say, a “teachable moment”, yes? (And I DO also get that many of the same people KEEP ON HAVING “teachable moments”- way too many!!!) Maybe some kids will only learn caveat emptor from this… But I suspect many will learn lessons much more profound. What they ultimately take away from this whole experience will depend not what their teachers or peers tell them, but mostly the example set by their parents. It’s just that simple.

Personally I really want this resolved asap no matter what… I just can’t stand it! And others I’ve talked with concur- this uncertainty is torture! We have got to rescue our county quickly.. We need to move forward together… We have a lot MORE work to do!!

As soon as this is done, let’s turn on our heels, get down to business, and make the BOCC act like men.

We must find replacement candidates that are both:

a> smart
b> not evil

Difficult I’ll admit, but not completely impossible!

I also think that we MUST tactfully reach out and help those that are not understanding bus efficiency, core capacity, natural transitions because as soon as they GET it- then that will help alleviate some(!) of the false hopes, rabid animosity, and displaced anger.

Thanks for letting me say all that- Whew! I felt like it was my last chance to get it all out before this particular controversy comes to a close.. Have a great weekend in this BEAUTIFUL County!

I tried really hard to stay away but... this crap is just too juicy.

Obviously Lurker, you are an expert.....as are many of you're pro forced busing buddies that are spending so much time armchair quarterbacking on this thread..so why don't you put your name out there and run for school board? I don't know what we all poor, clueless individuals could do without your insightful tutelage. It is a wonder any of us have been able to tie our shoes, go to work or even breathe clean air....jeeze. I guess we will just have to rely on FB to get by. Honestly there's not much on your post that doesn't just flat out .... well....

As far as the BoE and BoCC goes, I hope that really wakes up the county to fully understand what goes on here. I've been a long time advocate of district representation on the BoCC. Two of our board members ran UNOPPOSED. What does that say about the empathy of our residents? The other three clowns ran as a block. That should never be allowed to happen. Why, does a county with the number of residents that we have only have 5 board members? I would think that we should have district representation as well as at large members. There's no way, as cross section of the county is getting represented.

As far as the BoE goes, well...they have shown how big of ass clowns that they have been. I include all 9 of them with Ellis and Web driving the clown car. Heck at least one falls asleep during meetings, another never comes prepared, and two haven't uttered a word in at least 10 meetings that I have personally been to. It is easy to be led by a couple of alpha males, whose egos barely fit through the door. There's no wonder the BoE and BoCC can't get in the same room.

None of us that are getting forced bused should say anything at all according to most of you. We should just bend over and take the okeedoke AND be grateful for it. It's not the 3rd world according to you all. At a minimum, we should have expected it, my god, it is a county wide system afterall..... You all that are drinking the BOE kool-aid are simply amazing. There's no way that 5800 kids need to get forced bused, just to make a little more elbow room for some others or to make room for those that haven't even moved here yet. Most of you have agreed that this is excessive, so ask yourself WHY the BOE is going to go through with this? Scores? RtoTT monies? Egos? See which group as the bigger member BOE or BOCC? It simply can't be because of a handful of schools that are overcrowded. I appeal to your common sense to see that. This is what I've been saying since I first posted that the forced busing was coming. This has way more implications that what we are seeing right now. No, not conspiracy theory.. but let your common sense answer the question.

The other night I sat in Monroe's auditorium and listened to each speaker carefully. Way more carefully that our elected officials did. Each had a story. Most that talked about property values I immediately tuned out. But there were a lot of people that had real stories. Stories about how this will have a negative impact on their worlds. Single parents that won't be able to volunteer, parents that work long hours that won't be able to go those extra miles to get their kids. You can't dismiss this. Parents that have worked extremely hard to make sure that their kids that might struggle academically have a solid foundation for their futures. (BTW, I couldn't give a rats crap about band or sports, there's way more than that to this). This matters. You can wave your hand and say that it doesn't, but I can't believe that anyone that has any compassion in their heart believe that. This is disrupting the lives of 5800 families, some it will be a minor inconvenience some it will be way more devastating. For you to dismiss that and the efforts that their parents have put behind trying to dissuade the BOE just shows that, quite frankly, you have no compassion for your neighbors or their children.

BTW, this is why I left the private group. When those folks started personally bashing on those that are making every effort to make change happen, then I realized that there is nothing left for me to contribute.

Let me say that most of those that are against the forced busing initiative are afraid, they fear the unknown and they fear what the change will bring. They haven't gotten the reassurance from their elected officials that this forced busing intiative is just, needed (at the extent that it is being proposed) and that there is nothing else that could possibly be done that would alleviate the small, non crisis issues that the all this mess is trying to address. Yes, they have mis-stepped some and at times let their fears get ahead of their words. But these are good people, let me remind you of that. As long as they pay their taxes and have children in the system, they have a right to dissent, to question AND to complain. To minimize that, by posts like those above and many others on this thread, just shows me how un-feeling and un-educated some that are in for forced busing can be. Why aren't all of you that are so enlightened that the forced busing intiative is the panacea that you all tout it to be, reaching out to these parents to help them with their fears, instead of vilifying their efforts to combat the initiative?

There are lots of ways that this all could be resolved. There have been tons of proposals that should have gotten some type of vet (many were discussed here before it got personal), forced busing should have been only a very small part. The BOE and Dr. Ellis had a grand opportunity to make this school system a shining example of progressive education for ALL students. Yet, they went cheap, took the easy way out, and in turn have turned neighbor against neighbor (as this group has proven) and most likely changed the landscape of the western part of the county for many years to come.

There's no way a reasonable person or parent can justify the forced busing of 15% of the student population. I totally get that some schools need relief and have never once disputed that. I've said that in many different posts in this thread. But to think that 15% of the student population must be moved, just to provide that room is simply <#$$ed> up. I don't think that the push back by parents that don't want this to happen to them is unjust. The BoE has bungled this from the get go. Even if forced busing was the only viable option, they board blew it big time. Blaming the parents because they don't want to bend over and take it, simply is just merciless and vicious.

<sorry, I just couldn't sit on my hands on this on, I'll go back to lurking, feel free to bash>
 
Old 03-01-2014, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,410,081 times
Reputation: 4818
It's all good jlat... I still advocate that the proposal is too big. But nobody has presented a plan that includes some redistricting. Everything "officially" proposed has been focused on avoiding reassignment completely. Options that significantly change the system from a traditional single track K-5, 6-8, and 9-12 are not well developed at all - let alone ready to implement. I won't argue the why, but I will say I wouldn't be in favor of multi-track or multi-transitions for Elementary. The catch-all is trailers and I get why that is attractive to some people and not others. Many of these alternatives to redistricting are more unknowns than redistricting itself - the county has redistricted, many times. In the end, this is largely subjective and everyone has their right to disagree.

If it's common sense that there is some overcrowding, then I think it's relative to require some redistricting - at least to address the caps. Why won't anyone step up to the microphone and talk about just reducing the amount of children reassigned? Do you really think a majority support no redistricting at all based on the public hearing and social media? These are not significant numbers calling a complete halt in context to the whole county. I guess I don't see the misrepresentation as clearly as you do. But I understand the history here and I don't think we can pin it all on one person - you have 2 very dysfunctional elected bodies in the BOE and BOCC... The list is as long as my arm of points and counterpoints - from plain old incompetence to hubris. It's a bad reality show.

BTW - I listened to the stories, too... Many truly sad ones. But when you're pointing your finger at them and "calling them out" it kind of marginalizes the sadness. It's difficult making a difficult decision in the face of the sad stories, not so much for the others.

The elections should be interesting as more people have now realized how much they matter.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 10:55 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,065 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlat View Post
The other night I sat in Monroe's auditorium and listened to each speaker carefully. Way more carefully that our elected officials did. Each had a story. Most that talked about property values I immediately tuned out. But there were a lot of people that had real stories. Stories about how this will have a negative impact on their worlds. Single parents that won't be able to volunteer, parents that work long hours that won't be able to go those extra miles to get their kids. You can't dismiss this. Parents that have worked extremely hard to make sure that their kids that might struggle academically have a solid foundation for their futures. (BTW, I couldn't give a rats crap about band or sports, there's way more than that to this). This matters. You can wave your hand and say that it doesn't, but I can't believe that anyone that has any compassion in their heart believe that. This is disrupting the lives of 5800 families, some it will be a minor inconvenience some it will be way more devastating. For you to dismiss that and the efforts that their parents have put behind trying to dissuade the BOE just shows that, quite frankly, you have no compassion for your neighbors or their children.

>

I posted awhile back about how I felt after listening to everyone's stories on Thursday night. It was really upsetting to hear. I can't imagine that anyone who is a parent and wants the best for their child could listen to the speakers and not hear the fear and emotion that you are referring to. It is disruptive. It is upsetting. There is no disputing that. I'm not sure where you have gathered that anyone is dismissing these facts?

There is an appeal process for special circumstances such as after school care/single parent issues/etc. I personally believe that this is a process that is taken seriously.

I don't think anyone is dismissing the efforts of compassionate parents. What is being frowned upon is the harassment, the mention of following people home and picketing in their driveways, of stalking, of violating their own rights as human beings. Board members and county commissioners are people too and just anything political, there will be those in favor and those not.

I think we are ALL affected by this and to say that the non-redistricted folks aren't affected just isn't fair. People respond differently to change and to circumstances and to life. Some of us choose our battles (I know I do) and move forward with what we feel we cannot change. I appreciate the passion, but I do not appreciate the lack of seeing the big picture. The "no compassion for your neighbors or their children" comment... well, that's unfortunate for you to assume. I have seen much compassion during this whole ordeal on both ends of the stick. But I have also see much narcissism and selfishness and greed and entitlement. You can't put people in boxes and you can't put this type of situation into simple black and white. There is a whole sea of gray that lies in between the extremes. And I would venture to say that 99% of folks are swimming in the gray right now, trying to do the best that they can to stay afloat.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 10:58 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,143,939 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
It's all good jlat... I still advocate that the proposal is too big. But nobody has presented a plan that includes some redistricting. Everything "officially" proposed has been focused on avoiding reassignment completely. Options that significantly change the system from a traditional single track K-5, 6-8, and 9-12 are not well developed at all - let alone ready to implement. I won't argue the why, but I will say I wouldn't be in favor of multi-track or multi-transitions for Elementary. The catch-all is trailers and I get why that is attractive to some people and not others. Many of these alternatives to redistricting are more unknowns than redistricting itself - the county has redistricted, many times. In the end, this is largely subjective and everyone has their right to disagree.

If it's common sense that there is some overcrowding, then I think it's relative to require some redistricting - at least to address the caps. Why won't anyone step up to the microphone and talk about just reducing the amount of children reassigned? Do you really think a majority support no redistricting at all based on the public hearing and social media? These are not significant numbers calling a complete halt in context to the whole county. I guess I don't see the misrepresentation as clearly as you do. But I understand the history here and I don't think we can pin it all on one person - you have 2 very dysfunctional elected bodies in the BOE and BOCC... The list is as long as my arm of points and counterpoints - from plain old incompetence to hubris. It's a bad reality show. They say that they all have to represent ALL of the UC, but to me, they are only representing the 85% that aren't getting forced bussed. When I last looked at my kid's report card, and 85% was a C. Meaning at best the BoE is average. That's giving them a lot of credit.

BTW - I listened to the stories, too... Many truly sad ones. But when you're pointing your finger at them and "calling them out" it kind of marginalizes the sadness. It's difficult making a difficult decision in the face of the sad stories, not so much for the others.

The elections should be interesting as more people have now realized how much they matter.
Mike, why hasn't the BoE come with a plan that has many of the proposed alternatives AND some redistricting? Why do parents, that haven't been included in any parts of this, have to come up with the alternatives? The plans that the parents (myself and you for example) have come up with, have some merits (albeit not a complete solution) but how has the BoE responded? They shot down the k-2 plan because they would have to make modification for Kindergarten classrooms? Yet WUES and WCES do not have what the BoE said that they would have to do, to make the plan work (yes, I've been in both schools and seen the K rooms). They have no clue how to make this work for all students. Dr. Ellis & Webb are academics and are clearly over their head. Their contemptous demeaor during these meetings clearly show that they do not value the opinons of their stakeholders, and have little regard for the 5800 kids that they are willing to punt out of their districts.

Like I said before, the parents are afraid. Yes, they don't want forced busing, but why put everything on their backs? I know you've said this a couple of times, but why is it on them to solve this problem in a way that doesn't rack up 5800 kids? The only plan we have seen coming from the so called experts is forced busing of 15% of the district. All the alternatives that Dr. Webb put out there in January were all angled as being too expensive, too time consuming, too hard. How do you think people would react? They are getting all this shoved down their throats, and anything that they have reasonably proposed has been shot down and stomped on by those on the BoE and those on board like this that can't see solutions beyond the forced busing of 15% of the student population. John Kennedy once said, "we chose to go to the moon....not because they are easy, but because are hard." If the BoE adopted that philosphy, do you think we would be here right now? I don't. I think if they had nearly as big of pair that the act like they do, schools would not be leaking for years, and the growth would have been managed at a much better. Yet, the sat on their collective arses and now get indignant when parents aren't willing to take the okeedoke? Then there's this whole faction of folks that are villifying those that are speaking out as being "banshees" or being loonies. See, that simply doesn't jibe. They might be a bit misguided, but they ain't stupid. They are starting to see this game for what it is.

The social media stuff is a natural extension of how the BoE has treated the parents of those that are getting forced bussed. Like I said, you can't reasonably expect them to bend over and take it. Those that do, that post contemptously on here, are way too callus to have a legitimate opinon. Hey I'm against the forced busing initiative and I got bashed off of some of the FB groups myself. To me, it is all just entertainment, political theater and as you say, bad reality show. But those parents that are speaking out, have legitmate concerns and those concerns should not be minimized by the BoE and those that will benefit from this forced busing intitiave.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,233,082 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
Hmm, I don't know - perhaps they are using their paychecks to feed their kids? To keep the house warm? To put gas in their cars so that they may go to work? To survive? To make ends meet? Not everyone has extra money sitting around to pour into a track for an already well-attended school. "Beautiful gestures" don't have to come in the form of money. I personally would choose to volunteer my time tutoring kids struggling to pass their tests over dumping money into a track any day. One is needed much more than the other and requires nothing more than a little time and compassion. So to answer your question - I don't donate a whole lot of extra money because I don't HAVE a whole lot of extra money. I give what I can. And I give where it is needed most. Perhaps those cheering for 3 million dollars to be spent on MCRs to prevent any personal upset in their own lives should open their eyes. That money is needed elsewhere. End of story.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The "beautiful gesture" was your idea. Now you're telling people who made one by donating their time and money to make the school that their kids attend better, that they are being selfish because it doesn't meet your standard of approval?

"already well-attended school?" When New Town opened, it did so without many of the amenities that other schools in the system already had, that includes equipment in the classrooms and every piece of playground equipment on the grounds today. That was all added through the time, effort and donations via the PTA and parents of the school.

Was it our fault we did what the BOE asked when they redistricted us to a brand new school, to step up and help build it? But since we're so "well off", we should also be giving money to a school our kids don't attend?

Why should we regret it? Because, as you state, we're also using our paychecks survive and make ends meet, but we selfishly also want to make our kid's school life better and help the school that our kids attend.

No one is stopping parents at any of the other schools from doing the same.

We donate time each week in the office of the school our kids attend to help out the teachers do their administrative work.

The "personal upset in own lives" is just as important to us as the deficiencies in the other schools.

Again, do you donate money at your kid's school or one that really needs it? Do you donate your time at your kid's school or one that really needs it? I guess if you give it to one that really needs it, you're better than me.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 11:25 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,143,939 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
I posted awhile back about how I felt after listening to everyone's stories on Thursday night. It was really upsetting to hear. I can't imagine that anyone who is a parent and wants the best for their child could listen to the speakers and not hear the fear and emotion that you are referring to. It is disruptive. It is upsetting. There is no disputing that. I'm not sure where you have gathered that anyone is dismissing these facts?
I saw your post, for a second, it almost made me think you had some heart .

Quote:

There is an appeal process for special circumstances such as after school care/single parent issues/etc. I personally believe that this is a process that is taken seriously.
I honestly don't think that the BoE will grant too many, if any reprieves.

Quote:

I don't think anyone is dismissing the efforts of compassionate parents. What is being frowned upon is the harassment, the mention of following people home and picketing in their driveways, of stalking, of violating their own rights as human beings. Board members and county commissioners are people too and just anything political, there will be those in favor and those not.
heresay. show me where any of this actually happened. Yes people had spoke out in emails and social media, but where has anyone followed anyone home or picketed driveways, show me some evidence. Also, this hasn't been the tone from a lot of people on this thread. I believe the terms "banshees' and "loons" have been bandied about

Quote:

I think we are ALL affected by this and to say that the non-redistricted folks aren't affected just isn't fair. People respond differently to change and to circumstances and to life. Some of us choose our battles (I know I do) and move forward with what we feel we cannot change. I appreciate the passion, but I do not appreciate the lack of seeing the big picture. The "no compassion for your neighbors or their children" comment... well, that's unfortunate for you to assume. I have seen much compassion during this whole ordeal on both ends of the stick. But I have also see much narcissism and selfishness and greed and entitlement. You can't put people in boxes and you can't put this type of situation into simple black and white. There is a whole sea of gray that lies in between the extremes. And I would venture to say that 99% of folks are swimming in the gray right now, trying to do the best that they can to stay afloat.
I can't agree more that some that aren't getting forced bussed are being affected by having overcrowded schools, but I'm not the one that has been totally dismissive of those that have spoken out against this. I believe that you yourself used the quote "it isn't the 3rd world" and "get over it". I never once dismissed your claim that being overcrowded affected your school, but I can't say that it was a two way street. I see the big picture really well thank you very much, yet I was told that it was conspiracy theory. There is absolutely NO way that forced busing 5800 kids is necessary to relive this problem. You can't explain it in any rational way and to me that's unfortunate for you. Yes, absolutely there has been some entitlement type people going about, that I assure you, it is only a small faction of those that are being affected by being forced bussed. It is the very same if I said that those of you that are for the forced busing want it to somehow punish those kids that go to Weddington, PR and Cuthbertson because they go to those schools. Now you wouldn't want to be pigeon holed into that would you?
 
Old 03-02-2014, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
189 posts, read 276,287 times
Reputation: 622
Two questions/things, in all seriousness:

1. Are people calling this a "forced busing initiative" now in preparation for a legal battle? Instead of plain ole' "redistricting"?

2. I keep hearing about how much time and money has been invested in current schools. Eventually your child is going to move on from that school, regardless of redistricting. A fifth grader cannot stay at Newtown forever. Middle school only lasts 3 years, so by that account no one should do squat for the middle schools since their child won't be there long??

Jlat hit it on the head, at the end of the day it is about fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear that you're not going to get something that you want or that you're going to lose something you have.

Last edited by whxwlvr; 03-02-2014 at 05:48 AM..
 
Old 03-02-2014, 07:15 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,143,939 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by whxwlvr View Post
Two questions/things, in all seriousness:

1. Are people calling this a "forced busing initiative" now in preparation for a legal battle? Instead of plain ole' "redistricting"?

2. I keep hearing about how much time and money has been invested in current schools. Eventually your child is going to move on from that school, regardless of redistricting. A fifth grader cannot stay at Newtown forever. Middle school only lasts 3 years, so by that account no one should do squat for the middle schools since their child won't be there long??

Jlat hit it on the head, at the end of the day it is about fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear that you're not going to get something that you want or that you're going to lose something you have.
Personally, I call it forced busing, because that's what it is. It smells very much like the social engineering experiments of the 1970's in the Charlotte system. Back then, it wasn't called redistricting, it was called forced busing. You can put lipstick on a pig (call it redistricting), but it is still an oinker.

As far as lawsuits go, I conjure that there has been some discussions about it. The vocal folks that have floated the idea, have the strategy wrong though. They possibly have a case on a couple of grounds but they won't go there, because they can't get the emotions out of the way. Just in discussing it with a couple of legal type friends, these folks are looking at about $200k just to get things off the ground. My gut tells me that the anti-forced busing folks won't put their money where their mouths are.

As far as #2, people are going to throw anything and everything against the wall and see what sticks. They threw property values, it didn't stick, they've tried throwing the numbers (they actually should get some traction there, but there way too many unknowns in the data, and the BoE isn't forthcoming with clarity so it's easy for them to keep moving the goalposts), they've thrown the conditions of the schools up there and that's getting some stick, but only because it is part of the BoE's plan to put more pressure on the BoCC. Now they are throwing their monetary contributions to the schools up there. It won't stick either. The BoE is banking that these pocketbooks will carry the influence needed to get the BoCC off the $$.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 08:09 AM
 
386 posts, read 839,246 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
There is an appeal process for special circumstances such as after school care/single parent issues/etc. I personally believe that this is a process that is taken seriously.
I have seen this option thrown out there several times including by Dr. Ellis at one of the meetings. Wondering if anyone who has suggested this or known anyone who personally tried to to this. It's not as easy as it sounds. I have a friend whose son has an IEP and still couldn't get it to go through. And I think that they are going to pretty much reject these on the first go around and hope that parents don't appeal the decision. If parents do, then it is still going to be a tough battle to prove that you should be allowed to stay in your schools.
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