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Old 03-10-2014, 08:41 PM
 
99 posts, read 155,430 times
Reputation: 137

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmarti78 View Post
I may not be a lawyer, but I do know the concept of "precedent". Legal precedent shows us that, unless there's a racially bias argument to be made, 100% of these lawsuits to stop redistricting fail. I emailed the people running the new anti-redistricting site if they knew of any other successful attempts; they answered back but didn't answer the question. I asked on Facebook and got no answer. I haven't seen it answered here either other than to cite a CMS case involving racial issues. I haven't even heard it articulated what the grounds for the lawsuit even are.
There is a racial component. White kids from McMansions in blackstone and Wesley oaks will have to go to school with less affluent and possibly people of color at sun valley and parkwood

 
Old 03-10-2014, 08:45 PM
 
137 posts, read 164,661 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
Sure it does, majority of studies prove that environment has a huge influence on a kid's development.
In other words "we all become the company we keep".
In a school that has higher scores, a kid needs to work harder to stay on top, I don't see why some here think this is wrong???
There are plenty of highly intelligent AP students at Parkwood. I was one of them. I know teachers of AP students there and I know the AP students. Acting like Parkwood is a death sentence for anyone seeking a quality education is ludicrous.

Funny story, the explosive growth in Union County started in the '90s. Weddington didn't open until 2000. Marvin Ridge and Cuthbertson came later. Do you know where all of those wealthy Charlotte commuters were sending their kids back then? Sun Valley and Parkwood. They made out just fine and these new students and parents will too.
 
Old 03-10-2014, 08:46 PM
 
98 posts, read 116,617 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by nckeith View Post
There is a racial component. White kids from McMansions in blackstone and Wesley oaks will have to go to school with less affluent and possibly people of color at sun valley and parkwood


Keith, you getting tired of playing those race cards yet....time to shuffle the deck again
 
Old 03-10-2014, 08:48 PM
 
137 posts, read 164,661 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawdoc View Post
Now that we've decided to touch the 3rd rail in UC, let's grab it with both hands and feel the burn.
Our schools are not comparable, and haven't been for some time. The first domino fell at the western county line when Kensington burst over capacity, but the cascade exposed every inequity between Marvin and Marshville. In doing so, we've discovered the tear in the fabric of our community and have been tearing each other down since - we've already done in one of our finest.
Plainly, there are racial and class faultlines (Marvin 85% white / 2% disadvantaged, while Monroe is 12% white / 82% disadvantaged). I don't think these are the primary issues for most of us, and I don't see the need for race-baiting - particularly on this forum. I think the disparity in performance is the shameful statistic here. Jlat isn't a racist or social darwinist to want to send his kid to the best-performing school. Still, I'm skeptical of the 'forced busing' term if used in an attempt to bring back images from desegregation - (I was 'bused' in elementary school for racial balance, this is different).
'Fix the school,' 'make it better' - but how? I'm ready to do so, but I don't think I'll do much good as a helicopter parent hovering over my kids' new teachers and principals. I can only write so many checks before they start to bounce. I couldn't care any less for the glass-walled showcases that our schools have become, I'd send my kids to a one-room schoolhouse if it had the best teachers in the state. I'm after the crown jewels, the best teachers and administrators, - keep your castles and stadia.
Sun Valley begat Weddington, Parkwood begat Marvin and Cuthbertson. Cuthbertson was colonized from Parkwood's principals and hand-picked Parkwood teachers - just a couple years ago. Time to reverse the westward flow of talent. Now that the wave has crashed against the western wall, the tide should turn. 175 students at Marvin get to take AP or IB classes, only 9 at Monroe and 25 at Parkwood. Fix that!
You sure that's accurate? They had at least 3 AP classes at Parkwood that I knew of just a couple of years ago and they had plans to expand.

EDIT: Just checked and you do appear to be or more or less accurate. Huh. Well I do know they're planning on expanding.
 
Old 03-10-2014, 08:52 PM
 
99 posts, read 155,430 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by nchammer View Post
Keith, you getting tired of playing those race cards yet....time to shuffle the deck again
Until I hear or see parents from parkwood or sun valley complain, donate or show up at a rally because their kids have to go to weddington or cuthbertson I will be comfortable with my observations. Let's see how many continue this fight going forward and post our observations. My guess is the dividing line will continue to be those communities east of billy howey rd. if I'm wrong I'll admit it.
 
Old 03-10-2014, 08:53 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,366 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by nchammer View Post
I gave my answer to Keith 2 different times....he didn't like my answer. He seems to want the controversial answer of some race based or socioeconomic reason. It isn't that. While I respect your answer and your feelings and opinions, can you entertain the possibility that I could have other reasons and my reasons are just as valid, in my mind, as yours are to you? Unless you believe that your reasons are the only reasons that are valid.
No certainly not. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. I like to think this is more about schools not being comparable (old vs new, high scoring vs low scoring, well-embellished vs in need of TLC). I don't think it's about race per se or about anything nasty or tasteless (although of course there are those few who have gone on record as being complete a**holes). Anyhow, my point is that I think folks are freaking out about this to the point where it LOOKS like something else. The rallying, the lawyers, the news crews, the t-shirts, etc, etc, etc. I have always said that I think this will all balance out in the end. The families with more money will balance out those schools that may be struggling. Scores will improve. Bus rides will just become another daily routine unnoticed. I think the continued fighting and bucking is only prolonging the inevitable. There is a REAL overcrowding/population issue that had to be dealt with. The BOE (yes, those folks that we gave the power to decide such things) voted to redistrict. That was their choice in the end and despite what many want to accept, it was FISCALLY the best option. Money does not grow on trees. We are a nation and county of debt and struggling tax payers who don't need excessive hikes. The kids will be fine. It's the adults that seem to be struggling with this more than anyone else. And yes, these are MY opinions - they are not necessarily correct, but simply a reflection of how I myself feel.

Last edited by waxhawmom75; 03-10-2014 at 09:03 PM..
 
Old 03-10-2014, 09:02 PM
 
98 posts, read 116,617 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
No certainly not. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. I like to think this is more about schools not being comparable (old vs new, high scoring vs low scoring, well-embellished vs in need of TLC). I don't think it's about race per se or about anything nasty of tasteless (although of course there are those few who have gone on record as being complete a**holes). Anyhow, my point is that I think folks are freaking out about this to the point where it LOOKS like something else. The rallying, the lawyers, the news crews, the t-shirts, etc, etc, etc. I have always said that I think this will all balance out in the end. The families with more money will balance out those schools that may be struggling. Scores will improve. Bus rides will just become another daily routine unnoticed. I think the continued fighting and bucking is only prolonging the inevitable. There is a REAL overcrowding/population issue that had to be dealt with. The BOE (yes, those folks that we gave the power to decide such things) voted to redistrict. That was their choice in the end and despite what many want to accept, it was FISCALLY the best option. Money does not grow on trees. We are a nation and county of debt and struggling tax payers who don't need excessive hikes. The kids will be fine. It's the adults that seem to be struggling with this more than anyone else. And yes, these are MY opinions - they are not necessarily correct, but simply a reflection of how I myself feel.

but wait....its NOT about test scores, isn't that right Ms Ellis....so that cant possibly be the reason. My issue is with the "overcrowding"....284 students....you move 5800 students around for a surplus of 284.....but wait, it was then about "filling empty seats"....ok, so fill empty seats at one school, and leave another school at 75% capacity....yes I know, those people decided the future of our children, that's what scares me
 
Old 03-10-2014, 09:16 PM
 
397 posts, read 579,366 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by nchammer View Post
but wait....its NOT about test scores, isn't that right Ms Ellis....so that cant possibly be the reason. My issue is with the "overcrowding"....284 students....you move 5800 students around for a surplus of 284.....but wait, it was then about "filling empty seats"....ok, so fill empty seats at one school, and leave another school at 75% capacity....yes I know, those people decided the future of our children, that's what scares me
Wait, what? You lost me with the "it's NOT about test scores comment". I don't think the BOE is attempting to raise other schools test scores if that's what you are implying. I was referring to parents being upset about the 9s and 10s going to 4s and 5s. Anyhow, I know - you are one of those that feels kids who haven't moved here yet should be the ones getting bused across town. Am I right? Cap schools, load 'em up with trailers, exceed core capacity, and halt any redistricting until the money exists for new schools. This is about expected growth. About patterns. About historical trends. It's not about "284 students". I don't see anything terribly unsafe, unfair, or irresponsible about the decision that was voted on. And I don't think a court will either. Long bus rides are not criminal. Neither are shifting cluster lines. Sorry.
 
Old 03-10-2014, 09:20 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,852 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawdoc View Post
Jlat isn't a racist or social darwinist to want to send his kid to the best-performing school.
Thanks doc, I'm not a racist, I wholeheartedly believe in inclusion and equality. I teach my kids respect for all and anything less, to me is unacceptable behavior. That's what makes the OP's remarks about me so laughable.

Quote:
Still, I'm skeptical of the 'forced busing' term if used in an attempt to bring back images from desegregation - (I was 'bused' in elementary school for racial balance, this is different).
See this is where I have to respectfully disagree. I was a product of the forced busing initiative of Char-Meck for six long years during the 70's. While that was for racial balance in poor schools, this smells exactly the same. Move kids from a higher economic level (and their parents and their pocketbooks) into lower economic and yes, lower academically performing schools. Yes absolutely there are outstanding performers, teachers and admins in these schools but the state numbers on scores, grad rates, crime, academic proficiency doesn't sway the story in the most positive light. This is why people are afraid. This is pretty scary stuff it you think about it clearly. Coupled with the ass clownery actions of both the BoE and the BoCC, it is absolutely understandable why people are mad. They should be, they got screwed by their elected officials and right or wrong they should stand up and hold the government accountable.

Quote:
'Fix the school,' 'make it better' - but how? I'm ready to do so, but I don't think I'll do much good as a helicopter parent hovering over my kids' new teachers and principals. I can only write so many checks before they start to bounce. I couldn't care any less for the glass-walled showcases that our schools have become, I'd send my kids to a one-room schoolhouse if it had the best teachers in the state.
See, here I agree. I don't care if my kids go to a brand new school, that has never been something that I have cared about. To me, the learning environment and overall support are more important. That said , the conditions of some of these schools is frankly unacceptable and the conditions of these schools are a significant part of the overall learning environment. If anything comes out of all this, it better be to fix these schools. I got no problem standing up for that, I don't think that anyone would. No one, regardless of who they are, should be subjected to what I've seen in some of these schools. Again, this is on both the BoE and BoCC. So if anything, people that are already in these schools should be joining the forced busing people to pound the message into the BoE and BoCC
 
Old 03-10-2014, 09:31 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,852 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by nckeith View Post
There is a racial component. White kids from McMansions in blackstone and Wesley oaks will have to go to school with less affluent and possibly people of color at sun valley and parkwood
You ever been to Blackstone or Wesley Oaks? Neither are hardly McMansions. Go over to Skycroft or Firethorne or Providence Downs to see what real McMansions look like. BTW none of those neighborhoods got forced out of their neighborhood schools.
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