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Old 04-07-2014, 03:26 PM
 
387 posts, read 841,855 times
Reputation: 218

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
If the BOE curls up and just hopes it goes away, I tend to agree that it will continue to drag out for a while... There's this false sense it may be over for those who are not following the lawsuit. It's just a lull now as folks wait to see what happens with the courts. It may be the eye of the storm.
Unfortunately, this is what the BOE seems to be doing. Hence the announcement that they will be mailing letters on the 18th of this month to all those being moved telling them where they are being moved to and how to grandfather if you are eligible.

I for one would be curious as to what those who are involved in the lawsuit are thinking is going to happen next and an approximate timeframe they are looking at. From what I can gather there isn't a whole lot that will happen before the new school year and by then these kids will already be at their new schools.

 
Old 04-07-2014, 05:37 PM
 
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I don't think the BOE is curling up and hoping that it will go away. That is a nonsensical statement. They are in fact now forced to spend taxpayer money to hire a legal team to defend themselves in the court. Given that they have been forced into this action, then it would be inappropriate for them to make further comment on the matter.

In fact, anyone having to deal with a court case, who is getting competent legal advice, will not continue to make public statements about the trial. What they should do, is what they are doing. i.e. continue on as if they will win and let the lawyer do the talking. I'm very surprised the plaintiffs did not take the same approach and instead have made numerous statements to the press while the trial is in progress. IMO, it's another sign, their approach wasn't well thought out.

People can believe what they want, but I'll stick with the "It's over" comment.
 
Old 04-07-2014, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,789 posts, read 8,441,860 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I don't think the BOE is curling up and hoping that it will go away. That is a nonsensical statement. They are in fact now forced to spend taxpayer money to hire a legal team to defend themselves in the court. Given that they have been forced into this action, then it would be inappropriate for them to make further comment on the matter.

In fact, anyone having to deal with a court case, who is getting competent legal advice, will not continue to make public statements about the trial. What they should do, is what they are doing. i.e. continue on as if they will win and let the lawyer do the talking. I'm very surprised the plaintiffs did not take the same approach and instead have made numerous statements to the press while the trial is in progress. IMO, it's another sign, their approach wasn't well thought out.

People can believe what they want, but I'll stick with the "It's over" comment.
You may be confused - the BOE is curling up, just as you state they should with a pending lawsuit. No public comments, radio shows, etc. Not everyone agrees with the lawsuit and I certainly agree it's a waste of taxpayer money.

However, they can't avoid addressing how this all went down forever (the lawsuit will end soon enough) and it's definitely not over from that perspective... Primaries, elections - all coming up this year - and you can be certain the redistricting (and any action or inaction on their part) will be continually brought up during any campaigning... and it's not just about the BOE elections, it's completely spilled over into the BOCC elections, as well.

So although "It's over" from your perspective, it most certainly will not go away any time soon. It pretty much spun the county politics into the limelight.
 
Old 04-07-2014, 06:41 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,148,872 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I don't think the BOE is curling up and hoping that it will go away. That is a nonsensical statement. They are in fact now forced to spend taxpayer money to hire a legal team to defend themselves in the court. Given that they have been forced into this action, then it would be inappropriate for them to make further comment on the matter.

In fact, anyone having to deal with a court case, who is getting competent legal advice, will not continue to make public statements about the trial. What they should do, is what they are doing. i.e. continue on as if they will win and let the lawyer do the talking. I'm very surprised the plaintiffs did not take the same approach and instead have made numerous statements to the press while the trial is in progress. IMO, it's another sign, their approach wasn't well thought out.

People can believe what they want, but I'll stick with the "It's over" comment.
Keep in mind that there are no checks and balances with regards to the BOI, except through legal channels or through the ballot box. The people that have brought this lawsuit are taxpayers in this county too and they have a right to air their grievance. They also have the right, as any citizen does, to hold their elected official accountable for the decisions that they make. They asked for information about decisions that directly impacted their lives and the lives of their children and were stonewalled. The questioned the validity of the data, the methods in which the data was derived and were stonewalled. They made proposal after proposal that fell on deaf ears without the slight bit of consideration, not even out of courtesy.

It may be over from the stand point, that I doubt the district lines will change dramatically before the next school year. But Mikey has it right, this won't go away for a while. What the BOI has done, will have an impact on the political landscape in the county for next while. The BOCC race will definitely be impacted, which could have possible implications on a settlement with the BOI. I tihnk we will also see some pretty interesting reaction the next time the BOI comes hat in hand asking the taxpayers to fund any major capital projects. (Schools, stadiums, technology etc.). Their inability to see the bigger picture and total lack of any type of visionary leadership at the superintendent/admin level is going to cost them in the longer run. They won't have near the support that they once had.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:43 AM
 
45,465 posts, read 18,030,591 times
Reputation: 19016
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
....

However, they can't avoid addressing how this all went down forever (the lawsuit will end soon enough) and it's definitely not over from that perspective... Primaries, elections - all coming up this year - and you can be certain the redistricting (and any action or inaction on their part) will be continually brought up during any campaigning... and it's not just about the BOE elections, it's completely spilled over into the BOCC elections, as well.

So although "It's over" from your perspective, it most certainly will not go away any time soon. It pretty much spun the county politics into the limelight.
Your commentary is about the political ramifications of BOE's decision to redistrict which I have not addressed. Of course people are surely able, and they should, use their rights to address the BOE's performance at the voting booth. IMO, I give them credit for not caving in to mob tactics and doing what real leaders should do and make politically tough decision. However I've noticed that people have an extraordinary capacity to vote against their interests so what happens remains to be seen.

When I say "it's over" I mean the redistricting fight is over. Nothing has been presented that suggests the pending lawsuit will be successful. In fact at this point it's a dismal failure, and until the parents can demonstrate that their children will not receive an education by the new plan, then the court has no further interest. It's over means they better start accepting the fact that next school session, some people will be assigned to different schools. IMO, they should put their energy and money into something more productive than fighting the taxpayers. They could instead start a charter school if they don't like the school system.

Whether or not the BOE suffers at the voting booth will be interesting. Let's say the BOE is eventually replaced by a crew from the anti-redistricting crowd. Well... then what? They have no money to build new schools, they can't toss trailers at schools and stay within state requirements for common facilities, yet they are faced with a severe overcrowding problem. It's a hypothetical question.

Last edited by WaldoKitty; 04-08-2014 at 02:55 AM..
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:14 AM
 
45,465 posts, read 18,030,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlat View Post
The people that have brought this lawsuit are taxpayers in this county too and they have a right to air their grievance. ....
The court system isn't a place to air grievances. It's a place to seek legal remedy when harmed by another party.

IMO, the only valid harm that could stop the redistricting would be a clear and compelling argument that redistricted kids would not receive an education at the new school. Property values, over loaded roads, and such are, by state law, beyond the BOEs scope.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Union County
5,789 posts, read 8,441,860 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Your commentary is about the political ramifications of BOE's decision to redistrict which I have not addressed. Of course people are surely able, and they should, use their rights to address the BOE's performance at the voting booth. IMO, I give them credit for not caving in to mob tactics and doing what real leaders should do and make politically tough decision. However I've noticed that people have an extraordinary capacity to vote against their interests so what happens remains to be seen.

When I say "it's over" I mean the redistricting fight is over. Nothing has been presented that suggests the pending lawsuit will be successful. In fact at this point it's a dismal failure, and until the parents can demonstrate that their children will not receive an education by the new plan, then the court has no further interest. It's over means they better start accepting the fact that next school session, some people will be assigned to different schools. IMO, they should put their energy and money into something more productive than fighting the taxpayers. They could instead start a charter school if they don't like the school system.

Whether or not the BOE suffers at the voting booth will be interesting. Let's say the BOE is eventually replaced by a crew from the anti-redistricting crowd. Well... then what? They have no money to build new schools, they can't toss trailers at schools and stay within state requirements for common facilities, yet they are faced with a severe overcrowding problem. It's a hypothetical question.
Right - my original point (that you appeared to comment on) was about the BOE avoiding the topic and hoping this whole thing goes away. So the "political ramifications" are very relevant. It's definitely not over. Both the BOE (5) and BOCC (3) have more seats up for election than remaining - majority is at play on 2 boards that drive most of the policy we care about on a day to day basis. I agree that people may vote against their own interests - but how this redistricting was handled is going to play a big role in those elections.

The BOE credit for not caving to "mob tactics"? Really? They were never not going to redistrict... caps needed to be addressed. But they botched this thing from the gate. Did a terrible job communicating. Did a horrible job directing the administration relative to the "options". Some members were more interested in making grandstand speeches than helping their constituents. Walking out on a vote. Twitter and FB exchanges that are simply embarrassing. Seriously... What did they do except approve an obviously flawed redistricting plan that was a brainchild of the facilities committee's "requirements"? Forecasts out 5 years being accurate enough to move this many kids - I don't think so.

and hypothetical or not... they can toss trailers - lots of them, they've done it in the past. "severe overcrowding". lol - I personally wouldn't call sharing lockers "severe" and would classify run down facilities in disrepair as much more important. But maybe that's just me. You seem to forget that the BOE can pretty much do whatever they want in open session with 5 votes. They could have easily taken the trailer money from the BOCC and left the schools as is... it was a policy decision not to - so don't be so quick to think you know what could happen.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 08:29 AM
 
103 posts, read 143,456 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
And so what, your kid has to wake up 20 minutes earlier (this is truly a first world problem - just put them to bed 20 minutes earlier, end of story).\
I would have no issue with the earlier morning wake up for HS or MS kids. I don't understand how you think it is normal and prudent to have a elementary school children up at 5:30 in the morning? I'm glad we are out of this UCPS mess but I couldn't refrain since my nieces and nephews will be subjected to the early morning nonsense.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 08:48 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,148,872 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
The court system isn't a place to air grievances. It's a place to seek legal remedy when harmed by another party.

IMO, the only valid harm that could stop the redistricting would be a clear and compelling argument that redistricted kids would not receive an education at the new school. Property values, over loaded roads, and such are, by state law, beyond the BOEs scope.
But that's your opinion and you don't sit on the bench. IMO there are children being harmed, so where does that leave us? To what degree, that's what the court has to decide. When you have a board that is completely unfettered, completely unchecked, what recourse do you have? Nowhere in a free republic should any citizen have to completely bow down to the whims of its elected officials. They work for us, we are not subservient to them. If the BOI had been a little more transparent with how they got their numbers, how they formulated the districts and how they could even rationalize doing this now, with the schools in question in such lousy physical condition, then they might not find themselves sitting in court. Heck if they had just come clean and laid out the real reasons for doing the forced busing to begin with, they might not have been in court. People talk about the waste of taxpayers money on the lawsuit, but if we do not hold people that have been elected accountable, then we have written them a blank check to go off and run with scissors as they have done in this case. What would happen if tomorrow they just vote to force bus the entire district? All 42,000 kids gets a different school..what would be the reaction? You want to talk about waste, what about letting schools set virtually empty for an indefinite period of time, in hopes that some day they might possibly fill back up again. In the mean time schools that already had questionable and fragile infrastructure are going to get taxed even further. Does that sound sane to you? If NC had a recall law, then a lawsuit probably wouldn't have come about. If this could be appealed either to the county or to the state, then there wouldn't be a lawsuit.

As far as the other things that you mention (roads, property values etc) not being the boards responsibility. I'm not sure that I agree there either. If the county wanted to put a large landfill in Marshville they would have to do due diligence to make sure that health and safety of those around the site were covered. They would have site inspections, ground water inspections, the EPA would be involved, traffic patterns would be studied, all because they want to dump a little trash. They would have studied the situation and fully analyzed the impact maybe with some alternatives. They would have real open hearings, not the travesty of the few minutes the BOI gave the citizens. All this just for trash. They have a responsibility to the taxpayers to do no harm. Now the BOI wants to move 6,000 kids (little children, kindergartners) around without doing, by their own admission, any due diligence to the impact it will have to the existing school infrastructure, the roads or the health and safety of those being affected. They do so without any real clear vision or leadership. They haven't even come out with a plausible reason for doing it the the manner that has taken place. They didn't study squat, their only answer was it is "free". Details for this plan were leaked out long before the McKibben report was final. They knew what they were going to do, they knew the timing of it. If their responsiblity is to only educuate my kids, fine, then take the buses off the road, let me handle the rest and chose where my kids go to school and I will will take care how they get there. I'd be fine with that believe me.

So if the courts decide no harm no foul, then sure, lets move on. But to not give the parents every right possible to make sure these decisions that will directly impact them are made in an honest and forthright manner, with true critical thinking is unjust and frankly, inhumane.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 09:08 AM
 
45,465 posts, read 18,030,591 times
Reputation: 19016
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
.....You seem to forget that the BOE can pretty much do whatever they want in open session with 5 votes. They could have easily taken the trailer money from the BOCC and left the schools as is... it was a policy decision not to - so don't be so quick to think you know what could happen.
They are absolutely required to stay within state requirements for educational facilities and they are absolutely required to meet federal guidelines as well. They can't ignore these and do anything they want.

If you do a search you will find the document on facilities online. It specifies minimum requirements for common facilities in terms of lab space, space for impaired students, etc in sq ft/student. It's a long and complex document. IMO, they do not have an unlimited capacity to simply add more classroom space by adding additional trailers without addressing these much more difficult items.

Last edited by WaldoKitty; 04-08-2014 at 09:20 AM..
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