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Old 05-19-2014, 01:19 PM
 
113 posts, read 123,503 times
Reputation: 99

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAHER View Post
If the request for an Injunction is denied by the Court then I DO NOT support any litigation beyond that point. If an injunction is not granted then it is my opinion that continued litigation will only serve to prolong the fight and have a huge financial cost to everyone who resides in Union County. I have been extremely clear about my feelings on this issue from day 1.
Sean,

My assumption is that if this is the case – the injunction is unsuccessful and the students start the 2014-15 school year in their new schools - several residents will continue to press the BOE to unwind the redistricting. My personal belief is this would be very challenging and disruptive to the students. We could partially unwind – but again seems very disruptive and possibly just add yet another layer of grandfathering.

Thoughts on how you would navigate through this scenario? Could this be done in a way that would not do more harm than good ?

 
Old 05-19-2014, 01:31 PM
 
45,387 posts, read 18,002,973 times
Reputation: 18986
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAHER View Post
...
I do not recall calling parents who were emotional about such an explosive issue as foolish or foolhardy.
Fool was my word. I get the part about being emotional. However it goes beyond emotional when it lasts for months, involves pointless lawsuits, media tabloidism, etc etc etc. And maybe the most foolish thing about it, no one ever complained their kid wouldn't be educated.
 
Old 05-19-2014, 05:22 PM
 
43 posts, read 46,675 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyd1 View Post
Sean,

My assumption is that if this is the case the injunction is unsuccessful and the students start the 2014-15 school year in their new schools - several residents will continue to press the BOE to unwind the redistricting. My personal belief is this would be very challenging and disruptive to the students. We could partially unwind but again seems very disruptive and possibly just add yet another layer of grandfathering.

Thoughts on how you would navigate through this scenario? Could this be done in a way that would not do more harm than good ?
I would also be very curious from all candidates how they feel about & how they will handle the (quite likely intense) pressure of a full or partial "unwind" as Jimmyd put it.
 
Old 05-19-2014, 07:14 PM
 
397 posts, read 580,565 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyd1 View Post
Sean,

My assumption is that if this is the case the injunction is unsuccessful and the students start the 2014-15 school year in their new schools - several residents will continue to press the BOE to unwind the redistricting. My personal belief is this would be very challenging and disruptive to the students. We could partially unwind but again seems very disruptive and possibly just add yet another layer of grandfathering.

Thoughts on how you would navigate through this scenario? Could this be done in a way that would not do more harm than good ?

I think there is an assumption by some adults that kids being redistricted will be so distraught that they will want to run right back to their old stomping ground if given the chance. Well, what about the kids who adjust? What about the kids that actually LIKE their new school? I mean come ON already. This all needs to be put to rest. I agree jimmyd1, that it would be very disruptive.
 
Old 05-19-2014, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Wesley Chapel
51 posts, read 63,753 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyd1 View Post
Sean,

My assumption is that if this is the case the injunction is unsuccessful and the students start the 2014-15 school year in their new schools - several residents will continue to press the BOE to unwind the redistricting. My personal belief is this would be very challenging and disruptive to the students. We could partially unwind but again seems very disruptive and possibly just add yet another layer of grandfathering.

Thoughts on how you would navigate through this scenario? Could this be done in a way that would not do more harm than good ?
Jimmyd1,

I have had this very discussion with several people over the past month or so. Obviously, it presents another issue that any new BOE members would need to address.

Here's my take and it has so many unknown variables at this point in time, but I will give the issue a shot.

For starters, If the injunction does not succeed and the redistrict is implemented as passed at the start of the 2014/2015 School year these are the options that may or may not play out:

(1) BOE elections are held in November and a new Majority does not win enough seats - In this scenario I think the redistrict stands as is.

(2) A new majority is elected - This scenario presents a dilemma for those expecting or wanting a total reversal of the recently enacted redistrict that would already be in place. I 100% do not agree with moving kids during the middle of the school year, so anyone that has that in mind isn't really thinking about the kids at all in my view. Disrupting the school year with trying to move kids back would do nothing but create more disruption for kids and families and is counterproductive. I would not support moving kids back to any redrawn lines during the middle of the school year. I would prefer taking the remainder of the school year and working with each of the communities that were affected by the redistrict. Looking to see how they have adapted to their new school, how the kids feel about the new school and what if anything their community would like to happen now that they are already moved. I think we would see that some communities would have accepted the change and would prefer not to move again, and some communities would want to move back. I am not sure what possibilities would even be available to the new BOE, you can't create donut holes if trying to move communities back and you certainly do not want to disrupt a child's progress.

I personally believe that the plan as passed with so many communities affected has gone way beyond its productive reach. I would like to see the current BOE do the right thing and redraw some of the lines prior to the start of the next school year. There are communities that either have small numbers of kids being moved that do not affect the capacities in any way - they should never have been moved and should be returned to their original schools prior to the start of the redistrict. There are some communities that are larger and have a greater impact on the new school they are being set to then they would if they stayed at their old school - those communities should also be moved back. This should all be done prior to August 25th which is the date the redistrict goes into affect according to a letter I received at home. Grandfathered students should be afforded transportation, anything less than that creates a financial burden on some families which is unwarranted.

I believe that these measures if in place prior to next school year would reduce the footprint of the redistrict and help with truly finding a true long term solution. I still believe that no redistricting had to take place in 2014/2015 and any new BOE will need to address moving forward as a County in whatever actions are taken. Plainly put, we cannot continue to redistrict every few years - that is not progress - that is doing the same old trick over and over and never really fixing the real issue which is a lack of proper planning and/or implementation of such a plan due to external pressures.
 
Old 05-19-2014, 10:02 PM
 
43 posts, read 46,675 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAHER View Post
Jimmyd1,

I have had this very discussion with several people over the past month or so. Obviously, it presents another issue that any new BOE members would need to address.

Here's my take and it has so many unknown variables at this point in time, but I will give the issue a shot.

For starters, If the injunction does not succeed and the redistrict is implemented as passed at the start of the 2014/2015 School year these are the options that may or may not play out:

(1) BOE elections are held in November and a new Majority does not win enough seats - In this scenario I think the redistrict stands as is.

(2) A new majority is elected - This scenario presents a dilemma for those expecting or wanting a total reversal of the recently enacted redistrict that would already be in place. I 100% do not agree with moving kids during the middle of the school year, so anyone that has that in mind isn't really thinking about the kids at all in my view. Disrupting the school year with trying to move kids back would do nothing but create more disruption for kids and families and is counterproductive. I would not support moving kids back to any redrawn lines during the middle of the school year. I would prefer taking the remainder of the school year and working with each of the communities that were affected by the redistrict. Looking to see how they have adapted to their new school, how the kids feel about the new school and what if anything their community would like to happen now that they are already moved. I think we would see that some communities would have accepted the change and would prefer not to move again, and some communities would want to move back. I am not sure what possibilities would even be available to the new BOE, you can't create donut holes if trying to move communities back and you certainly do not want to disrupt a child's progress.

I personally believe that the plan as passed with so many communities affected has gone way beyond its productive reach. I would like to see the current BOE do the right thing and redraw some of the lines prior to the start of the next school year. There are communities that either have small numbers of kids being moved that do not affect the capacities in any way - they should never have been moved and should be returned to their original schools prior to the start of the redistrict. There are some communities that are larger and have a greater impact on the new school they are being set to then they would if they stayed at their old school - those communities should also be moved back. This should all be done prior to August 25th which is the date the redistrict goes into affect according to a letter I received at home. Grandfathered students should be afforded transportation, anything less than that creates a financial burden on some families which is unwarranted.

I believe that these measures if in place prior to next school year would reduce the footprint of the redistrict and help with truly finding a true long term solution. I still believe that no redistricting had to take place in 2014/2015 and any new BOE will need to address moving forward as a County in whatever actions are taken. Plainly put, we cannot continue to redistrict every few years - that is not progress - that is doing the same old trick over and over and never really fixing the real issue which is a lack of proper planning and/or implementation of such a plan due to external pressures.
You will create more disharmony with this plan...just my opinion. Neighborhoods are split - some folks in probably every neighborhood are coping, moving on, and embracing the change. Some in the same neighborhoods are stuck and still emotionally reactive - you have to accept that you cannot please everyone with an issue like this. It seems like you are more in line in your thinking with the reactive parents. Please correct me if I am wrong. While I am not a politician (and never could be) - I imagine this is why people pleasers do not make good politicians. Sometimes you have to make decisions for the betterment of your county/state/country/etc. that part of your constituency will not be happy about....it is inevitable. It's why I would suck as a politician of any sort - haha. You have to decide where you stand and be able to stay on that side of the fence and stand by your choice even if some are unhappy with you. You are on the side of the fence that supports an "unwind" of some sort....you have made that clear now. You are part of the "new majority" - yes? Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

After a year in the new schools, neighborhoods will continue to be divided. Let's just pretend that every neighborhood agrees 100%, if you move one neighborhood back into their previous cluster and essentially give neighborhoods a choice (at your discretion of course), you will recreate or worsen the problems that started it all. If you act like you are talking with neighborhoods because you care about how they are adapting, then only "listen to" certain neighborhoods - be prepared for the message that sends to those you don't "listen to". Be prepared that you will quite likely be encouraging the childish reactivity and foot stomping that ensued when the maps were first released. What if they all want to be at the same schools? Take it a step further now as we step out of that delusion of agreement...How will you handle a neighborhood that seems half and half? or only 75%/25%? This will create divide at the level of the community that needs to stay intact for our children.....the actual neighborhoods. You actually could make the problem worse than it was when this all started. There will be new development on top of all that, as much as that hurts redistricted families to think about, so you are not thinking long-term enough.

You seem like you really want what is best for the county as a whole, and I like that you are trying, but I think you are missing the big picture. The county is bigger than Wesley Oaks or Wesley Chapel or Cuthbertson. The county is bigger than the 5800 children redistricted (mine included). Not to mention that a big part of your plan requires the current BOE to significantly reduce the footprint before you ever get into office - I doubt that is going to happen.

I don't think anyone anywhere is talking about moving kids mid-year; but, here is the REAL big picture... moving kids back after one year at the new school or even giving them hope that this is a possibility keeps them from engaging in and adapting to their new school. This is not good for the kids - they need to move on and begin to engage in their new communities. They need to see their parents investing all their time, energy, and resources into their new school community! (not waiting for the opportunity to get shifted back) If their school is in disrepair, they need to see the board and the whole county rallying to get those problems resolved to show that EVERY school is valued....that EVERY school is worth staying in and embracing...not just the one they came from. I know you support school repairs, but your plan does not actually help kids adapt to their new schools...it stands in the way of them doing so. I am also talking about the message they are getting as children when people in their lives tell them their property values are going down and the test scores are low, you won't have to stay at THAT school, etc. What if instead we told them, "this new school is worth staying in; it is going to be amazing; we are going to make it amazing; you will love it; it won't take long to make new friends and the teachers are out of this world!"
I really like you Sean, but you just broke my heart with your response. My chances of voting for you are dwindling fast
 
Old 05-19-2014, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Wesley Chapel
51 posts, read 63,753 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by hope923 View Post
You will create more disharmony with this plan...just my opinion. Neighborhoods are split - some folks in probably every neighborhood are coping, moving on, and embracing the change. Some in the same neighborhoods are stuck and still emotionally reactive - you have to accept that you cannot please everyone with an issue like this. It seems like you are more in line in your thinking with the reactive parents. Please correct me if I am wrong. While I am not a politician (and never could be) - I imagine this is why people pleasers do not make good politicians. Sometimes you have to make decisions for the betterment of your county/state/country/etc. that part of your constituency will not be happy about....it is inevitable. It's why I would suck as a politician of any sort - haha. You have to decide where you stand and be able to stay on that side of the fence and stand by your choice even if some are unhappy with you. You are on the side of the fence that supports an "unwind" of some sort....you have made that clear now. You are part of the "new majority" - yes? Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

After a year in the new schools, neighborhoods will continue to be divided. Let's just pretend that every neighborhood agrees 100%, if you move one neighborhood back into their previous cluster and essentially give neighborhoods a choice (at your discretion of course), you will recreate or worsen the problems that started it all. If you act like you are talking with neighborhoods because you care about how they are adapting, then only "listen to" certain neighborhoods - be prepared for the message that sends to those you don't "listen to". Be prepared that you will quite likely be encouraging the childish reactivity and foot stomping that ensued when the maps were first released. What if they all want to be at the same schools? Take it a step further now as we step out of that delusion of agreement...How will you handle a neighborhood that seems half and half? or only 75%/25%? This will create divide at the level of the community that needs to stay intact for our children.....the actual neighborhoods. You actually could make the problem worse than it was when this all started. There will be new development on top of all that, as much as that hurts redistricted families to think about, so you are not thinking long-term enough.

You seem like you really want what is best for the county as a whole, and I like that you are trying, but I think you are missing the big picture. The county is bigger than Wesley Oaks or Wesley Chapel or Cuthbertson. The county is bigger than the 5800 children redistricted (mine included). Not to mention that a big part of your plan requires the current BOE to significantly reduce the footprint before you ever get into office - I doubt that is going to happen.

I don't think anyone anywhere is talking about moving kids mid-year; but, here is the REAL big picture... moving kids back after one year at the new school or even giving them hope that this is a possibility keeps them from engaging in and adapting to their new school. This is not good for the kids - they need to move on and begin to engage in their new communities. They need to see their parents investing all their time, energy, and resources into their new school community! (not waiting for the opportunity to get shifted back) If their school is in disrepair, they need to see the board and the whole county rallying to get those problems resolved to show that EVERY school is valued....that EVERY school is worth staying in and embracing...not just the one they came from. I know you support school repairs, but your plan does not actually help kids adapt to their new schools...it stands in the way of them doing so. I am also talking about the message they are getting as children when people in their lives tell them their property values are going down and the test scores are low, you won't have to stay at THAT school, etc. What if instead we told them, "this new school is worth staying in; it is going to be amazing; we are going to make it amazing; you will love it; it won't take long to make new friends and the teachers are out of this world!"
I really like you Sean, but you just broke my heart with your response. My chances of voting for you are dwindling fast
Hope, you totally misread my entire post. What I presented was different scenarios that may or may not take place based on what people are talking about on various social media sites as well as in private conversations. I, nor anyone else can give a plan for something that has yet to present itself in detail. I was trying to show the difference in what some want as compared to others. At the end of it I gave my opinion on what I would like to see happen if this situation that was presented for me to answer came to fruition. Yes, i would like to see the footprint of this redistrict reduced in size prior to its implementation. I did not comment on how realistic the current BOE would be in adopting that, I gave my opinion on the matter. Also, The New majority simply means that All 5 of the seats that will be up for election are won by NEW BOE members and not incumbents - there is no other meaning behind that, not sure what you thought it meant. Here is what my personal thoughts were:

"I personally believe that the plan as passed with so many communities affected has gone way beyond its productive reach. I would like to see the current BOE do the right thing and redraw some of the lines prior to the start of the next school year. There are communities that either have small numbers of kids being moved that do not affect the capacities in any way - they should never have been moved and should be returned to their original schools prior to the start of the redistrict. There are some communities that are larger and have a greater impact on the new school they are being set to then they would if they stayed at their old school - those communities should also be moved back. This should all be done prior to August 25th which is the date the redistrict goes into affect according to a letter I received at home. Grandfathered students should be afforded transportation, anything less than that creates a financial burden on some families which is unwarranted."

I believe that these measures if in place prior to next school year would reduce the footprint of the redistrict and help with truly finding a true long term solution. I still believe that no redistricting had to take place in 2014/2015 and any new BOE will need to address moving forward as a County in whatever actions are taken. Plainly put, we cannot continue to redistrict every few years - that is not progress - that is doing the same old trick over and over and never really fixing the real issue which is a lack of proper planning and/or implementation of such a plan due to external pressures.

There are some communities affected that have as little as 4-13 students affected, I see no constructive purpose in uprooting those families. I also clearly stated, "any new BOE will need to address moving forward as a County"

Lastly, I am not sure what was meant with the Wesley Oaks, Wesley Chapel and Cuthbertson comment - My thoughts on reducing the footprint includes ALL areas of the County and knowledge of my stance on what issues i feel are most important to UCPS would clearly show that my mindset clearly is not set on my community, town or past or present schools my children attend.

Last edited by SMAHER; 05-19-2014 at 10:59 PM..
 
Old 05-20-2014, 03:05 AM
 
45,387 posts, read 18,002,973 times
Reputation: 18986
^The BOE does not create redistricting plans. They lack the skills to create such a thing given the large amount of logistics involved, the operational needs of each school, and a host of other complex technical matters.

Instead, they vote on plans that are submitted to them in order to meet the state requirements for providing a public education for all students. In this case the redistricting plan came from employees of UCPS.

So your scenario brings up a few more difficult questions.
  • If the current plan fails to meet the needs of the community as you suggest, then do you think the new BOE (using your hypothetical situation) should fire the USPS staff including the superintendent that created such a poor plan?
  • Should school planning remain within USPS, or do you thing that an outside group should do it? If so, what group would this be?
  • What happens if, in your scenario, USPS is asked to look at it again, and they still suggest the same redistricting plan?
  • Do you think taxes should be raised for USPS?
 
Old 05-20-2014, 04:35 AM
 
985 posts, read 1,654,231 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxhawmom75 View Post
I think there is an assumption by some adults that kids being redistricted will be so distraught that they will want to run right back to their old stomping ground if given the chance. Well, what about the kids who adjust? What about the kids that actually LIKE their new school? I mean come ON already. This all needs to be put to rest. I agree jimmyd1, that it would be very disruptive.
I agree with both of you, whether they like the new school or not. To move and then in a couple weeks to move again, while yes a headache for each school (and really what did the school have to do with any of this).

So like most school years starting out at the younger grades, the classroom gets to know each other, they do "All About Me" activities, etc. So in a couple weeks lets pick up new kids and we and put them in that room, even though they did all the get to know each other better activities elsewhere. They have picked who they eat lunch with, they have found kids during recess that they play with. And heaven knows new bonds with new and different could never be as strong as with the old friends (eyeroll)

Yesterday while waiting for an appointment at a local office the mom of a 7th grader said her child was moving to the new school, to get to know the kids before they go to that high school. She thought knowing more kids before entering high school was better. She did say she was surprised how many were taking the grandfathering, she said she most certainly would have moved a 5th grader just because you get to know the kids better in a single classroom and with the whole grade activities.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 07:26 AM
 
43 posts, read 46,675 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAHER View Post
Hope, you totally misread my entire post. What I presented was different scenarios that may or may not take place based on what people are talking about on various social media sites as well as in private conversations. I, nor anyone else can give a plan for something that has yet to present itself in detail. I was trying to show the difference in what some want as compared to others. At the end of it I gave my opinion on what I would like to see happen if this situation that was presented for me to answer came to fruition. Yes, i would like to see the footprint of this redistrict reduced in size prior to its implementation. I did not comment on how realistic the current BOE would be in adopting that, I gave my opinion on the matter. Also, The New majority simply means that All 5 of the seats that will be up for election are won by NEW BOE members and not incumbents - there is no other meaning behind that, not sure what you thought it meant. Here is what my personal thoughts were:

"I personally believe that the plan as passed with so many communities affected has gone way beyond its productive reach. I would like to see the current BOE do the right thing and redraw some of the lines prior to the start of the next school year. There are communities that either have small numbers of kids being moved that do not affect the capacities in any way - they should never have been moved and should be returned to their original schools prior to the start of the redistrict. There are some communities that are larger and have a greater impact on the new school they are being set to then they would if they stayed at their old school - those communities should also be moved back. This should all be done prior to August 25th which is the date the redistrict goes into affect according to a letter I received at home. Grandfathered students should be afforded transportation, anything less than that creates a financial burden on some families which is unwarranted."

I believe that these measures if in place prior to next school year would reduce the footprint of the redistrict and help with truly finding a true long term solution. I still believe that no redistricting had to take place in 2014/2015 and any new BOE will need to address moving forward as a County in whatever actions are taken. Plainly put, we cannot continue to redistrict every few years - that is not progress - that is doing the same old trick over and over and never really fixing the real issue which is a lack of proper planning and/or implementation of such a plan due to external pressures.

There are some communities affected that have as little as 4-13 students affected, I see no constructive purpose in uprooting those families. I also clearly stated, "any new BOE will need to address moving forward as a County"

Lastly, I am not sure what was meant with the Wesley Oaks, Wesley Chapel and Cuthbertson comment - My thoughts on reducing the footprint includes ALL areas of the County and knowledge of my stance on what issues i feel are most important to UCPS would clearly show that my mindset clearly is not set on my community, town or past or present schools my children attend.
I hear you, and perhaps I misread - I apologize for that. However, it still sounds like you would be in support of a partial unwind if there is a new majority (also sorry I misunderstood what you meant by that) - that is really what I was responding to. So, while I should not have used the word "plan", most of my concerns are still valid in the context of this "scenario" that could play out. No?
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