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Old 05-21-2014, 05:26 AM
 
397 posts, read 519,914 times
Reputation: 201

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
I know it's been mentioned here but this is why it seems odd to me that CAPS would actually use the word "adequate" in their name. Maybe those getting redistricted to Monroe or Forest Hills could use that argument, but they're not the ones creating the most uproar.
Great observation Phils!

 
Old 05-21-2014, 07:02 AM
 
527 posts, read 637,926 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by nchammer View Post
You are turning a nice shade of envy green rmarti....so test scores have nothing to do with it? its just "elitism and ignorance" and its all a fallacy that the "Holy Trinity" are among the highest performing schools in the county? I personally don't care the reason why they are higher, offer up 100 theories....it doesn't matter. The fact is, THEY PERFORM BETTER....ITS A FACT....so stop arguing about it and just accept it. as far as what is an inferior education....it is your OPINION they wont receive an inferior education, it is not a FACT....its funny how the pro bussing crowd loves to use the overcrowding numbers as FACT to boost their arguments, but will quickly discount the school report card numbers....cherry pick much? Love how you generalize everyone from NY and Ohio, no ignorance there now
I am giving you a form of applause where members of a seated audience stand up while applauding after extraordinary performances of particularly high acclaim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rmarti78 View Post
Pick any student from Cuthbertson at random. Could be the one with the highest test scores or the lowest. Take them out of Cuthbertson and put them into Parkwood. Will they perform worse? Perhaps for the first 6 weeks grading period as they're adjusting, but I promise you they will end up with the same scores at Parkwood.
Whew, I feel better now. rmarti promised.

We have very few metrics by which to measure school performance. For those that we do have the newer schools rank higher, everything else is just anecdotal. Not much to debate on this issue.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 07:36 AM
 
397 posts, read 519,914 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxhawMike View Post
I am giving you a form of applause where members of a seated audience stand up while applauding after extraordinary performances of particularly high acclaim.




Whew, I feel better now. rmarti promised.

We have very few metrics by which to measure school performance. For those that we do have the newer schools rank higher, everything else is just anecdotal. Not much to debate on this issue.
You are spot on. The scores are undeniable. Can't argue that and, as you said, all else is purely anecdotal. But as several have pointed out, demographics play a role.. Many different factors. Factors that can't be taken into consideration when drawing lines. I think we agree that just a population map,capacity numbers, growth projections and a sharpie are needed to draw the lines (and we also agree that there has to be some movement). Heck, if affordable use a non-biased third party to draw the lines.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 09:48 AM
 
45,252 posts, read 17,960,183 times
Reputation: 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by raithfan View Post
Y...... I think we agree that just a population map,capacity numbers, growth projections and a sharpie are needed to draw the lines (and we also agree that there has to be some movement). Heck, if affordable use a non-biased third party to draw the lines.
I'm not so sure about that. It also affects where teachers, administrators, and others are employed along with the accompanying personnel issues involved. And there is the several hundred page NC State BOE requirements and regulations for school facilities, a fairly technical document, that UC has to follow especially if it is a state statute requirement. (or federal for that matter)

I'd say it's not that trivial of a task. I don't think the school system employees who developed the plan might be biased in a certain direction. It sounds like they were given a tough set of requirements to follow. i.e Fix overcrowding and BTW you don't get any money for new permanent facilities. Pay a 3rd party to do it and give them the same requirements and restrictions and I'm betting you'd get the same answer. It might even be more extreme.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 09:57 AM
 
136 posts, read 157,457 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmarti78 View Post
Pick any student from Cuthbertson at random. Could be the one with the highest test scores or the lowest. Take them out of Cuthbertson and put them into Parkwood. Will they perform worse? Perhaps for the first 6 weeks grading period as they're adjusting, but I promise you they will end up with the same scores at Parkwood.
I'll hold you to that promise. I hope (and expect) you'll be pleasantly surprised. I'll propose a corollary experiment: Move the core faculty and admin of Cuthbertson wholesale to Parkwood (or wherever) - what do you expect will happen to school performance?" I'm only willing to make predictions here b/c we've seen the reverse experiment. It's uncomfortable to go down this road, but an important discussion to have.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 10:31 AM
 
124 posts, read 139,469 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWOMANY View Post
I am glad to see the question of UCPS rankings. For a district it is good, but it varies from school to school. That is why people are against this redistricting. They want a better education for their children. This website District Search Results Page shows the % of students at or above grade level in Math, English and Biology at the HS when you click on the school report card snapshot on the upper right side. For example if your child is redistricted from WHS (English-78.7%)(Math-54.3%)(Biology-71.1%) to SVHS (English-49.2%)(Math- 36.4%)(Biology-39.4%) or CHS (English-83.1%)(Math-67.6%)(Biology-64.2%) to PHS (English-59%)(Math-09.1%)(Biology-37.9%) there is a big difference in the amount of knowledge the students obtain at each school. More than half the students at SVHS are learning at below grade level. Wouldn't you want your child to attend the better school? It's just unfortunate that they won't.
But yet Parkwood's average SAT score was 1018, Cuthbertson 1029, Weddington 1071, Marvin Ridge 1119, Sun Valley 981.

Mostly kids who are looking to go to college take the SAT, others not so much, so I believe the average SAT score is truly more indicative of the amount of knowledge that kids who are college bound are getting from the school. Those that know they aren't going to college, for whatever reason, generally don't care about the scores they make on tests and that's reflective in the EOG or EOC tests. I wouldn't hesitate to say that the parents of kids who know they can't afford to send their kids to college don't push them as hard as parents who have the expectation that their child is going to go to college. It's a shame that more parents who can't afford to send their kids to college don't push them harder so that they may qualify for an academic scholarship. It's also a shame that college is priced out of the market for most families, heck even community colleges which were originally designed for people who couldn't afford a 4 year university is now even being priced out of the market for the average consumer.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 10:33 AM
 
397 posts, read 519,914 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I'm not so sure about that. It also affects where teachers, administrators, and others are employed along with the accompanying personnel issues involved. And there is the several hundred page NC State BOE requirements and regulations for school facilities, a fairly technical document, that UC has to follow especially if it is a state statute requirement. (or federal for that matter)

I'd say it's not that trivial of a task. I don't think the school system employees who developed the plan might be biased in a certain direction. It sounds like they were given a tough set of requirements to follow. i.e Fix overcrowding and BTW you don't get any money for new permanent facilities. Pay a 3rd party to do it and give them the same requirements and restrictions and I'm betting you'd get the same answer. It might even be more extreme.
That's right where I was going Waldo.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 10:40 AM
 
397 posts, read 519,914 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTaxPayer View Post
But yet Parkwood's average SAT score was 1018, Cuthbertson 1029, Weddington 1071, Marvin Ridge 1119, Sun Valley 981.

Mostly kids who are looking to go to college take the SAT, others not so much, so I believe the average SAT score is truly more indicative of the amount of knowledge that kids who are college bound are getting from the school. Those that know they aren't going to college, for whatever reason, generally don't care about the scores they make on tests and that's reflective in the EOG or EOC tests. I wouldn't hesitate to say that the parents of kids who know they can't afford to send their kids to college don't push them as hard as parents who have the expectation that their child is going to go to college. It's a shame that more parents who can't afford to send their kids to college don't push them harder so that they may qualify for an academic scholarship. It's also a shame that college is priced out of the market for most families, heck even community colleges which were originally designed for people who couldn't afford a 4 year university is now even being priced out of the market for the average consumer.
Now that's a discussion I look forward to..the skyrocketing cost of a college education
 
Old 05-21-2014, 12:01 PM
 
124 posts, read 139,469 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by raithfan View Post
Now that's a discussion I look forward to..the skyrocketing cost of a college education
It's gotten absolutely insane Raithfan. I'm in IT, so instead of teaching myself another programming language I thought about taking a Java class at SPCC, just to get out of the house a night or two during the week. By the time I added all the fees that SPCC taps onto a class plus the cost of the class itself I was looking at $500 for that one class! No thanks, I'll teach myself, lol. I've been a programmer since 1982 when I graduated from college, have taught myself numerous other languages since logic is logic, just different syntax and code. It just completely blew me away that the one class was going to be that much and we're talking about just a 3 month course! I realize they are part of CPCC, which is one of the top junior colleges in the country, but still $500!!!
 
Old 05-21-2014, 01:26 PM
 
527 posts, read 637,926 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTaxPayer View Post
It's gotten absolutely insane Raithfan. I'm in IT, so instead of teaching myself another programming language I thought about taking a Java class at SPCC, just to get out of the house a night or two during the week. By the time I added all the fees that SPCC taps onto a class plus the cost of the class itself I was looking at $500 for that one class! No thanks, I'll teach myself, lol. I've been a programmer since 1982 when I graduated from college, have taught myself numerous other languages since logic is logic, just different syntax and code. It just completely blew me away that the one class was going to be that much and we're talking about just a 3 month course! I realize they are part of CPCC, which is one of the top junior colleges in the country, but still $500!!!
Out of curiosity are you or were you a Cobol programmer (or some other procedural language)? I've done some light coding on the side over my career and I have seen a lot of programmers seriously struggle making the adjustment to the object oriented paradigm. It's not just a syntax switch, it's an entirely new way of thinking. The good news for them was/is that there are still plenty of legacy systems around, the skillset is hard to find, and they are now raking in the dough.
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