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And I've already seen our FB counterparts calling for a report on Western Union... Nothing ever satisfies them. I personally am glad to hear there is no major mold issue.
And why not call for a report on Western Union when the school's principal could not speak to the school's mold and mildew issues? That goes for UCPS and Dr. Webb as well who did not adequately address these issues. Concerned parents who might possibly be sending their kids off to this school are still waiting.
How is that a fact? Well, ok I'll grant you this. The schools were over core capacity as defined by Webb. So, at the core of this entire argument is a question of whether or not you believe Webb's numbers. I don't.
I've asked this before and have never gotten a response from anyone on this board... but, I'll try again. Is it really feasible to believe that both Monroe HS and SVHS have a cap level that is exactly 200 students above their capacity? So for Monroe that's a full 20% more students but for SVHS it's only 14%. Fairview Elementary can go as high as 30% and New Salem can go as high as a whopping 69%, yet poor Cuthbertson High School can only take an additional 19%?
According to the 2009 facilities report the Parkview High School cafeteria could serve 639 students across 3 lunches (falling short of DPI space requirements). There may have been a renovation since then because I've seen another number a little higher but either way they are still short of the 900+ they'll have to serve due to reassignment.
My point is that it's not hard to demonstrate that the watch and cap #'s are arbitrary at best. There are a lot of people buying into the "fact" that some schools have "well exceeded core capacity by a significant amount". Given that anyone that studies the numbers for more than 6 seconds will come to the conclusion that they can't be used as statistically sound control limits, I can only assume that the people supporting the reassignment have some sort of agenda.
I stand ready to hear someone use math to prove this plan was necessary.
Perhaps if you had stepped foot in any of the three schools mentioned above you would think again. It was a real problem. The entire 5th grade in trailers. Vulnerable kids walking through the rain to use the bathroom during thunderstorms and lightening. Let's not forget the lack of fencing or security. And don't get me started on the middle schools! When kids can barely fit through the hallway at class change that's a problem. It sounds like you are cutting this whole ordeal up into little pieces so that you can swallow it better. It is what it is. You can't speak to the mess at Kensington, Marvin Middle, and Porter Ridge Middle unless you have walked the halls, taught the classes, and been in the kids' positions. Perhaps you should run for the school board if you believe you can do a better job. It's seems that you believe you can. Sometimes things are much simpler than people want to believe they are. The growth on the west side HAD to be addressed. Have you run the numbers on THAT craziness? Go ahead. Count all of the new homes and projected new homes. Try to fit them all in their assigned schools and let me know what you come up with. My guess is your only solution would be about 50 trailers at each of the schools. And if you think that is a feasible solution then you are only being selfish. Yes, it all comes down to numbers and safety - simple common sense numbers and simple common sense safety.
And why not call for a report on Western Union when the school's principal could not speak to the school's mold and mildew issues? That goes for UCPS and Dr. Webb as well who did not adequately address these issues. Concerned parents who might possibly be sending their kids off to this school are still waiting.
I wonder if the Ivy League schools that are old as the hills have any mildew or mold. I'm betting so. All of you folks who are so concerned about the "mildew" should most definitely research brand new colleges as to prevent such safety hazards when the time comes. Or would Western Union's mildew be more acceptable if it were a "10 out of 10" school?
I wonder if the Ivy League schools that are old as the hills have any mildew or mold. I'm betting so. All of you folks who are so concerned about the "mildew" should most definitely research brand new colleges as to prevent such safety hazards when the time comes. Or would Western Union's mildew be more acceptable if it were a "10 out of 10" school?
Are we talking Ivy League schools or an elementary school in Union County? All I'm saying is it would be nice if the principal and the UCPS administration would address the situation instead of not having answers (WU principal) or not replaying to questions being asked by concerned parents (UCPS administration.)
Are you defending the school principal and administration for their lack of transparency and ignorance to a situation that raises the concern of parents in the area?
Enough with the "10 out of 10" garbage... obviously it appears that mold issues are no concern of yours and apparently no concern of those parents that have been sending their kids to WU over the last few years.
.....
Enough with the "10 out of 10" garbage... obviously it appears that mold issues are no concern of yours and apparently no concern of those parents that have been sending their kids to WU over the last few years.
Or more obvious and logical, there simply are not any mold issues to be worried about.
You guys are not doing yourselves any favors in the winning hearts & minds arena by constantly suggesting there are multitudes of parents who don't care about their kids.
Or more obvious and logical, there simply are not any mold issues to be worried about.
You guys are not doing yourselves any favors in the winning hearts & minds arena by constantly suggesting there are multitudes of parents who don't care about their kids.
You are kidding right? Western Union's principal confirmed mold issues at the school. She stated the mold was discovered by the janitorial staff. What she coould not answer was the full end result- clean-up and inspection to be exact.
Sick of the UCPS apologists here on this thread. Parent concerns need not apply here. UCPS is always in the right- just like they said that this redistricting would be free and cost tax payers nothing.
The BOE also proposed an upgrade to WUE's gymnasium, a gymnasium that was touted by school staff as being one of the largest elementary school gyms in the county. Love the BOE's priorities.
How is that a fact? Well, ok I'll grant you this. The schools were over core capacity as defined by Webb. So, at the core of this entire argument is a question of whether or not you believe Webb's numbers. I don't.
I've asked this before and have never gotten a response from anyone on this board... but, I'll try again. Is it really feasible to believe that both Monroe HS and SVHS have a cap level that is exactly 200 students above their capacity? So for Monroe that's a full 20% more students but for SVHS it's only 14%. Fairview Elementary can go as high as 30% and New Salem can go as high as a whopping 69%, yet poor Cuthbertson High School can only take an additional 19%?
According to the 2009 facilities report the Parkview High School cafeteria could serve 639 students across 3 lunches (falling short of DPI space requirements). There may have been a renovation since then because I've seen another number a little higher but either way they are still short of the 900+ they'll have to serve due to reassignment.
My point is that it's not hard to demonstrate that the watch and cap #'s are arbitrary at best. There are a lot of people buying into the "fact" that some schools have "well exceeded core capacity by a significant amount". Given that anyone that studies the numbers for more than 6 seconds will come to the conclusion that they can't be used as statistically sound control limits, I can only assume that the people supporting the reassignment have some sort of agenda.
I stand ready to hear someone use math to prove this plan was necessary.
OK... Webb's #'s don't hold a lot of weight with me, perhaps he sold them a little too hard (or folks latched on to them with too much excitement). I don't think you can count seats in a school's cafeteria and decide how many students the school can effectively support (at 'Parkview' or any other school ) Sure, run six lunches, extend the school day, and double the capacity... just doesn't work in such a simplistic way.
Schools need science labs, computer labs, gymnasium space, etc. When teachers are rotating through labs to get space, kids are placed in corners of other classrooms and guidance to get computer space, etc. - we have capacity issues. The newer schools were built with three-story tall grand entrances and grand halls, but perhaps less space where it counts. Older schools were designed with efficiency in mind. Waxhawmom makes good points, we need to set foot in the schools to see for ourselves - there are more data points to consider than the published cafeteria/media ctr. seat #'s.
I think the school capacities are not a simple formula, but rely more on judgment calls. You can (and should) question the judgment, but NC is very clear about who gets to make those judgments - just ask Waldo. I'm a #'s guy too, and I can't provide a mathematical proof here. I think you've proved your point, it's a fallacious one though b/c it is an irrelevant conclusion based on the limited data you've seen. We're deep in the polemics now...
I wonder if the Ivy League schools that are old as the hills have any mildew or mold. I'm betting so. All of you folks who are so concerned about the "mildew" should most definitely research brand new colleges as to prevent such safety hazards when the time comes. Or would Western Union's mildew be more acceptable if it were a "10 out of 10" school?
Waxhawmom75, so because you arbitrarily have decided with your own cosmic research that top ivy league schools must have mold, therefore our schools with mold shouldn't be an issue???? For real????
I will not put this on anyone else, I will talk about myself only. I almost DIED from "Mold Toxicity" and I am now extremely sensitive to mold as one would imagine. So excuse me if it boggles my mind that anyone with the word "mom" in their title finds it totally acceptable that there is mold issues at Western Union ES. I am very happy that their wasn't any major mold issues at SVHS and those that were discovered will actually "according to the report" be remediated properly.
Hey, I bet those really old Ivy league schools have asbestos and lead paint as well - So I guess thats cool with you too, huh?
Those who disagree on redistricting thats fine, its all about opinions and ideas for what each think is better, but health and safety are not negotiable and anyone that finds toxic fungi to be "acceptable" is either very ignorant to the dangers they present or are simply rejecting the idea because it isn't part of their argument for which ever side they believe in with redistricting.
The issues are NOT related - one is about seats and growth, the other is about health.
I am sure that some here will blast me for my stance on this, but I don't care one bit. Blast away and show your ignorance to the health risks that every parent should become much more aware of. I think every school should be tested and not just with visual inspections. And with each test that comes back without any health concerns we should be happy, and those that come back with elevated spores - we should take immediate and appropriate action.
Waxhawmom75, so because you arbitrarily have decided with your own cosmic research that top ivy league schools must have mold, therefore our schools with mold shouldn't be an issue???? For real????
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAHER
The issues are NOT related - one is about seats and growth, the other is about health.
SMAHER,
I don't think Waxhawmom argued that mold is not an issue, I didn't read that into her post at all. I think she was talking about the sudden interest in the mold issue. Seriously, you wouldn't tear up a Harvard acceptance letter because Massachusetts Hall is 300 years old, would you?
Her point is the same as yours, two unrelated (yet conflated) issues - health issues and redistricting issues. Newly redistricted families are (justifiably) shocked about how low on the list of priorities the health/safety issue has been for schools outside the fertile crescent. It should be at the top of the list of priorities (btw, where is that list?).
I'm glad to see that you've come around on the distinction between the two issues. It was a little upsetting to see that so many were quick to complain about the cost of health and safety issues as a "cost of redistricting." In fact, I think that we will have some $ for health/safety remediation at older schools as a direct result of a wise (but difficult) decision to redistrict.
<EDIT> Some of us see it as a little disingenuous to cry out about [unconfirmed, but worrying] mold issues, cite it as a reason to re-redistrict, and then complain about the cost of fixing it for other folk's kids. Can you see that perspective at least?
Last edited by waxhawdoc; 06-08-2014 at 09:53 PM..
SMAHER,
I don't think Waxhawmom argued that mold is not an issue, I didn't read that into her post at all. I think she was talking about the sudden interest in the mold issue. Seriously, you wouldn't you tear up a Harvard acceptance letter because Massachusetts Hall is 300 years old, would you?
Her point is the same as yours, two unrelated (yet conflated) issues - health issues and redistricting issues. Newly redistricted families are (justifiably) shocked about how low on the list of priorities the health/safety issue has been for schools outside the fertile crescent. It should be at the top of the list of priorities (btw, where is that list?).
I'm glad to see that you've come around on the distinction between the two issues. It was a little upsetting to see that so many were quick to complain about the cost of health and safety issues as a "cost of redistricting." In fact, I think that we will have some $ for health/safety remediation at older schools as a direct result of a wise (but difficult) decision to redistrict.
Waxhawdoc, I see your point but I can promise you that if Massachusetts hall had a mold issue, they would deal with it directly and swiftly. Just as any educational institution or business place should.
Secondly, I do not understand your quote, "I'm glad to see that you've come around on the distinction between the two issues."
I have from day 1 - LONG before any of this redistrict stuff been about Health and Safety, I pretty much have dedicated most of my adult life to it in one form or another. Yes, I like some others became aware of the issues at some of our older schools due to the current redistrict issue, but should I be blamed for being involved directly with my children's school and not being aware of other issues? Once, I found out I have been an advocate for renovating the aging schools and not spending a dime on the newer schools until and only if/when the aging schools are renovated and brought up to 21st century standards across the board.
For the record, my children are not going to Western Union ES, not prior to or after the redistrict - that doesn't change my attitude towards fixing that school for one second, nor should it.
I am not a one trick pony, redistrict has passed, it is in motion - that does not stop, nor should it stop me and others from doing whatever we can to help better our entire School district. One step at a time.
Again, It was the whole "its OK if its a top school" argument that is ridiculous to me - health issues are NEVER OK I don't care if its SPCC or Harvard or WUES etc..
Saw this edit to your comments after my post, "Some of us see it as a little disingenuous to cry out about [unconfirmed, but worrying] mold issues, cite it as a reason to re-redistrict, and then complain about the cost of fixing it for other folk's kids. Can you see that perspective at least?"
I can see that perspective very well, which is why in my post I clearly stated, "I will not put this on anyone else, I will talk about myself only" - I NEVER stated the mold issue was a reason to re-redistrict??? Nor have I complained about the cost to EVER fix issues related to health and safety concerns. Matter of fact I have been screaming from the roof tops to fix the aging schools since day 1.
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) Sure, run six lunches, extend the school day, and double the capacity... just doesn't work in such a simplistic way. 
