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I can answer the IB question there are only 70 to 80 kids currently in the IB program and last year IB had less, it is only juniors and seniors. My point is not really where IB resides but the population of IB students is very few in the grand scheme of things.
Plus the other thing to consider is the workload for the teachers, the teachers need to apply to teach IB it comes with extra grading and extra work (in fact after applying 2 teachers left for CMS because of the work required but they should have known this, it was well stated).
Would people use magnets like CATA if transportation was not provided, my guess is no, that would become a "have and have-not" situation again, those that have a single parent or dual working parents may not be able to pick up or drop off their child making it not really public education.
You cannot factor in charter schools because it is not known, no one may choose to try the charter (not reality but a scenario) and every house/lot etc is guaranteed a public education for the children that reside there
I guess the point that I didn't communicate very well, is that there are creative approaches to this. I am not saying one idea is going to solve it, but if worked in with other ideas, there may be better approaches. If moving 50 to 100 students to an underutilized school makes even a small difference in a larger plan, it should be looked at. It's easy to armchair quarterback every suggestion and naysay every idea. But right now there should be nothing at all off the table. When I look at the success magnets have had in CMS and other areas and when I look at charters like Union Academy and Socrates, I would think that this type of approach to education would have impact. I wonder why these things are not even given the slightest consideration. Every plan, including redistricting has its worts. These were just white board ideas I came up with while eating a sandwich today, I am sure that many other people way smarter than me can come up with more and better ideas that shuffling almost 6,000 kids around.
This is where I'm getting confused. When/where in this process is time allowed for consideration of alternatives to redistricting?
Everything I've read indicates that the BOE is following an established and pre announced process. Cap then redistrict.
Like this from the Capping FAQs on the website:
How long will the schools stay capped?
The enrollment cap will remain in place until the Union County Board of Education approves a student reassignment plan to alleviate the overcrowding situation or until the enrollment meets our core capacity standards.
SunshineCH , is this an agenda item from Thursdays BOE meeting?
It appears that 'approval' of the solution will be voted on during that meeting?
6. Options to Ease Overcrowding Presentation/Possible Solutions Timeline Approval
Dr. Ellis
Dr. Webb
60 min.
Discussion/Approval
This is where I'm getting confused. When/where in this process is time allowed for consideration of alternatives to redistricting?
Everything I've read indicates that the BOE is following an established and pre announced process. Cap then redistrict.
Like this from the Capping FAQs on the website:
How long will the schools stay capped?
The enrollment cap will remain in place until the Union County Board of Education approves a student reassignment plan to alleviate the overcrowding situation or until the enrollment meets our core capacity standards.
SunshineCH , is this an agenda item from Thursdays BOE meeting?
It appears that 'approval' of the solution will be voted on during that meeting?
6. Options to Ease Overcrowding Presentation/Possible Solutions Timeline Approval
Dr. Ellis
Dr. Webb
60 min.
Discussion/Approval
The approval that is referred to is in regard to "possible solutions timeline". That means they will decide what the timeline is for studies, presentation, deliberation, public input and research of viable alternatives to redistricting. Basically, it means "come up with some other ideas, and don't take all day with it".
I can answer the IB question there are only 70 to 80 kids currently in the IB program and last year IB had less, it is only juniors and seniors. My point is not really where IB resides but the population of IB students is very few in the grand scheme of things.
Plus the other thing to consider is the workload for the teachers, the teachers need to apply to teach IB it comes with extra grading and extra work (in fact after applying 2 teachers left for CMS because of the work required but they should have known this, it was well stated).
Would people use magnets like CATA if transportation was not provided, my guess is no, that would become a "have and have-not" situation again, those that have a single parent or dual working parents may not be able to pick up or drop off their child making it not really public education.
You cannot factor in charter schools because it is not known, no one may choose to try the charter (not reality but a scenario) and every house/lot etc is guaranteed a public education for the children that reside there
How can you say that you cannot factor in charter schools because it is not known? What's not known? That there are 3 charter schools that applied in UC to open 2015? If you're going to forecast you include all factors. Those 3 schools will add over 2,900 seats in UC. Does that have an impact? I would say so. What about the proposed private school, St Matthews, in Waxhaw. Was that included? I don't think I saw that in the report.
McKibben report left out charter schools? Why? McKibben says that it's up to the school district to provide what non-demographics to include in the study (page 3 of the report). So either the BoE didn't provide the information or McKibben forgot. Either way the answer is obvious. The report is flawed. That is fact. Who did or didn't do something is irrelevant.
There are plenty of fact based questions people should be asking. The BoE needs to explain any dependencies.
How can you say that you cannot factor in charter schools because it is not known? What's not known? That there are 3 charter schools that applied in UC to open 2015? If you're going to forecast you include all factors. Those 3 schools will add over 2,900 seats in UC. Does that have an impact? I would say so. What about the proposed private school, St Matthews, in Waxhaw. Was that included? I don't think I saw that in the report.
McKibben report left out charter schools? Why? McKibben says that it's up to the school district to provide what non-demographics to include in the study (page 3 of the report). So either the BoE didn't provide the information or McKibben forgot. Either way the answer is obvious. The report is flawed. That is fact. Who did or didn't do something is irrelevant.
There are plenty of fact based questions people should be asking. The BoE needs to explain any dependencies.
one has to factor in that each and ever house/parcel of land is guaranteed a public education, it is unknown how many will leave UCPS for those charters. Those numbers are not known at ths time. It does not matter how many seats there are. It is not like the charters have not had their share of "ugliness" in the past couple of years. Not everyone is willing to try a new charter. So in the meantime the houses are counted in UCPS totals because they have the right by law to a public education. It's a fact
And while they are saying St. Matthews is coming it is not being built now, and the numbers are for now. There are those that go to Holy Trinity from here for middle school, and spend an hour on the bus. But until the new school is built how do you factor it in.
The approval that is referred to is in regard to "possible solutions timeline". That means they will decide what the timeline is for studies, presentation, deliberation, public input and research of viable alternatives to redistricting. Basically, it means "come up with some other ideas, and don't take all day with it".
Correct.
Just look back at what happened in 2008 and 2010.
The materials presented last week were just for the Facilities Committee. I don't know who was there but it wasn't a full BOE meeting.
Thursday will likely be a better presentation of the overcrowding issue to the full board and the initial plan. Ellis will then note the following options for the BoE to consider:
1. Continue as is with the current enrollment caps.
2. Consider other organizational patterns.
3. Consider student reassignment options.
BOE members will then discuss the options and bring up other issues like trailers, year-round, grandfathering, etc., etc. Approval is for the timeline, public hearings, etc. If there is more than this, well then I might join the conspiracy theorists out there.
But if history is any guide this is how it will happen on Thursday.
I can answer the IB question there are only 70 to 80 kids currently in the IB program and last year IB had less, it is only juniors and seniors. My point is not really where IB resides but the population of IB students is very few in the grand scheme of things.
Plus the other thing to consider is the workload for the teachers, the teachers need to apply to teach IB it comes with extra grading and extra work (in fact after applying 2 teachers left for CMS because of the work required but they should have known this, it was well stated).
Would people use magnets like CATA if transportation was not provided, my guess is no, that would become a "have and have-not" situation again, those that have a single parent or dual working parents may not be able to pick up or drop off their child making it not really public education.
You cannot factor in charter schools because it is not known, no one may choose to try the charter (not reality but a scenario) and every house/lot etc is guaranteed a public education for the children that reside there
[quote=mewith3;33119896]one has to factor in that each and ever house/parcel of land is guaranteed a public education, it is unknown how many will leave UCPS for those charters. Those numbers are not known at ths time. It does not matter how many seats there are. It is not like the charters have not had their share of "ugliness" in the past couple of years. Not everyone is willing to try a new charter. So in the meantime the houses are counted in UCPS totals because they have the right by law to a public education. It's a fact
And while they are saying St. Matthews is coming it is not being built now, and the numbers are for now. There are those that go to Holy Trinity from here for middle school, and spend an hour on the bus. But until the new school is built how do you factor it in.[/quote
Not according to Dr McKibben. You can't cherry pick data.
Alternatives are out there to ease overcrowding. Why not move the IB program out of Marvin to an under utilized school? Would not cost 1 dime to do that. Why not put UCEC in underutilized schools? There's a wait list today to get into that program. Why not develop more educational magnet type programs that would attract people all over the county to those schools that have seats? Transportation doesn't have to be guaranteed for those programs. Why not use the available seats to enhance the county educational system, not just shuffle problems from A to B. What would a year round program look like? How would a shared campus scenario work by moving some 8th graders to the high schools and some 5th graders to the middle schools? Years ago, everybody went to one school, why not now? Why was the fact that there will be 3 new charter schools coming to the UC never factored into any of the McKibben numbers? What was the specific formula used to decide what neighborhoods when where? Who drew the lines and why? If the BOE has no money and can't get money out of the county, just how are all those roofs going to get fixed, when what the county has offered will only fix maybe one or two schools at best?
There's lot of questions that haven't been answered. There's lots of possibilities that haven't been looked at or at least communicated to the public. I don't necessarily think it is the public's role to come up with these alternatives. That is what we have elected these people on the BOE to do. It seems that they have hitched their wagon to one plan and plan only and if you aren't on board and you speak out about it, then you are a bigot-racist-elitist. To me, I see it as being a concerned parent...but that's just me, I guess.
First reasonable suggestions I've seen.
-IB program. ...yes, I would agree (just thinking about it off the top of my head). Especially when this bubble in MRMS hits the high school. It would also serve to bring test scores up in those underutilized schools. I have always said that having it at Marvin messes with the class rank, as you are taking the smart kids from other schools centralized in one location. I agree, if its only 70 kids, well thats 70 less kids in the equation. Plus, put in two programs, one at Parkwood and one in Sun Valley, and allow more kids in.
-where is UCEC, isn't that on its own campus already?
-more magnet programs....also agree. They opened up a chinese immersion program in Kensington this year.....umm, why??! if it is so overcrowded, why didn't they do it at waxhaw elementary that had so much room. ??? That's 24 less kids. They cant move it now, thought, but can create others.
-year around multi track.....yes, but not useful for middle and high, where we will need the relief.
-changing around grades..... This was discussed at length with the porter Ridge redistricting, they cannot provide same opportunities and costs more. And all studies indicate that these are the ages that need to be split.
-charter schools haven't been approved, can't make a decision for a county based on an application. I can submit an application for cc078 montessori in like 5 minutes, means nothing. They don't even have potential locations yet. Can't count your chicks before they hatch. ...and in this case, the eggs haven't even been laid yet.
so I would agree on some of those options, it just wouldn't include enough kids. But I do like them. ....they do make sense.
How can you say that you cannot factor in charter schools because it is not known? What's not known? That there are 3 charter schools that applied in UC to open 2015? If you're going to forecast you include all factors. Those 3 schools will add over 2,900 seats in UC. Does that have an impact? I would say so. What about the proposed private school, St Matthews, in Waxhaw. Was that included? I don't think I saw that in the report.
McKibben report left out charter schools? Why? McKibben says that it's up to the school district to provide what non-demographics to include in the study (page 3 of the report). So either the BoE didn't provide the information or McKibben forgot. Either way the answer is obvious. The report is flawed. That is fact. Who did or didn't do something is irrelevant.
There are plenty of fact based questions people should be asking. The BoE needs to explain any dependencies.
McKibben report was done before the charter school application deadline. And not every charter school application is approved. It is an application, for Gods sake, they don't even have a location and you already want to ship kids off there?
Not according to Dr McKibben. You can't cherry pick data.[/quote]
It is not cherry picking. Everyone is guaranteed a seat in a public school. Cherry picking would be completely different on the data, I just said without schools being built how do you factor that in?
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