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Old 09-10-2015, 09:45 AM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,380,733 times
Reputation: 1407

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Howl View Post
Cars that come standard with anti-theft systems? You can't just hot wire a car nowadays like you could in the 80's and 90's when they'd pick the car they wanted and take off.

Point is, there are statistics that can explain any angle any of us want to take.

This outbreak of gang related violence isn't something to disregard because the overall murder rate is down. This outbreak is a symptom of a much larger issue in the Charlotte area and that is a growing gang population. I would imagine most of this weekends murders will not result in any arrests as people won't talk to police about it. Until their communities have had enough and turn against them we'll continue to see this escalate. The police on the other hand need to do more to inject themselves into these communities and build trust, not just cruise around in their patrol cars.


This was the us vs. them simplification I was referring to. You posted it at 10:10pm on 9/8. Not a big deal, just finding it for you. I bolded them for you the first time and am doing it above. Your points in the 2nd paragraph are built in an "us" vs. "them" relationship vs. "we" and "our" point of view.

I think we likely agree on more than we disagree on.

Totally agree there is work to be done but you can't deny the progress. Our city has doubled in size since 1993 and our crime rate is less than half of what it was then.

Knowing that, choose to focus on the negative if you wish. No one is saying there isn't work to be done. What I am calling out are those making huge generalizations about the community, without considering the bigger picture. When doing so, it turns out that the big picture doesn't support claims of an eroding/crime ridden community like many posters were claiming.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:56 AM
 
44,248 posts, read 17,634,045 times
Reputation: 18641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
sounds like you want people to panic.

what happened 10 years ago is definitely relevant when discussing crime stats.

all cities have crime and if it's down 26% from 10 years ago it puts things into perspective. It definitely doesn't mean crime is good. Why would anyone take that stance?
  1. Nope
  2. Topic is about 5 murdered this weekend. Not crime stats over 10 years That is a distraction from topic.
  3. Statistics can be spun to say anything.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:59 AM
 
44,248 posts, read 17,634,045 times
Reputation: 18641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post

Keep in mind that Charlotte doubled in population between 1993 and today. Pretty amazing! This makes the crime story even more positive.
Charlotte annexed a lot of land in that period of time. The vast majority of these areas never see any crime. Go look at crime/census tract. In the areas affected, this is no proof that progress has been made. It might even be worse.

There is nothing positive about this crime even though you continue to use this term.
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:01 AM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,380,733 times
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A reduction in crime is positive. (The current Charlotte crime story.)

The story of a child/adult/anyone being shot is negative. The quote you captured above is out of context.


Your first post on the topic was off topic, opining about it being "sad what's happening in certain parts of Charlotte". These are the sorts of generalizations that are baseless.

What neighborhood are you specifically referring to? Have any facts? What do you specifically want to add to the conversation about this awful shooting that isn't a broad generalization?

Last edited by Essequamvideri; 09-10-2015 at 10:25 AM..
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:55 AM
 
44,248 posts, read 17,634,045 times
Reputation: 18641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
A reduction in crime is positive. (The current Charlotte crime story.)

The story of a child/adult/anyone being shot is negative. The quote you captured above is out of context.


Your first post on the topic was off topic, opining about it being "sad what's happening in certain parts of Charlotte". These are the sorts of generalizations that are baseless.

What neighborhood are you specifically referring to? Have any facts? What do you specifically want to add to the conversation about this awful shooting that isn't a broad generalization?
Answers to your questions/points.
  1. This has not been proved. Charlotte annexed a lot of areas with no crime.
  2. You make the generalization about crime based on Charlotte city limits. I clearly stated opinion which everyone is entitled to.
  3. I'm referring to the neighborhoods where these shootings took place. I would think that would be obvious given topic matter.
  4. Facts for what?
  5. I've only pointed out that your crime stats, and the incorrect conclusions that you have drawn, are irrelevant to topic at hand. What do they have to do with this topic?
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:26 AM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,380,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Answers to your questions/points.
  1. This has not been proved. Charlotte annexed a lot of areas with no crime.
  2. You make the generalization about crime based on Charlotte city limits. I clearly stated opinion which everyone is entitled to.
  3. I'm referring to the neighborhoods where these shootings took place. I would think that would be obvious given topic matter.
  4. Facts for what?
  5. I've only pointed out that your crime stats, and the incorrect conclusions that you have drawn, are irrelevant to topic at hand. What do they have to do with this topic?


I'm getting the sense we're not going to agree on what is relevant. You don't think overall trends and data matters. I do. You think Charlotte's growth makes it easier to police. I don't. These aren't per capita stats - they are total counts. If you were arguing about a rate decrease I could see your point. But we're not. Charlotte annexing other areas doesn't pad the total count statistics! It makes it more difficult (more people = more violent crimes). And you're totally ignoring the fact that Charlotte has grown inside as much as outside. The fastest growing areas of Charlotte is not limited to suburban sprawl.

It's not debatable that the murder rate is the lowest it as been in Charlotte (and in many large cities) since 1977. I can't wrap my head around the idea that this doesn't matter. When talking about murders, thinking about how many have occurred in the past matters. You want to cry about how neighborhoods are falling apart (which was off topic) but won't accept any refuting facts because you consider anything outside of the last 5 years to be irrelevant? Data/Statistics over short periods of time are dangerous, but long periods usually lend more credibility. You bringing up just the last 5 years is a great example of this. And I would argue that it isn't representative of a standard deviation (being statistically insignificant as far as a crime spike) but I'm guessing this would be lost on you.

I was curious if you had any facts to back up your claim that these neighborhoods are falling apart. Did you even look at what neighborhoods these shootings took place? Steele Creek, Elizabeth, Beatties Ford, Shannon Park near the Plaza, South Blvd near Pineville, Freedom drive near Enderly park. Kind of a wide area to claim as totally sad and declining. Guess the whole city is headed down the tubes.

The story is awful. No disputing that. The claims that it's indicative of anything other than stupid, senseless violence are the ones I have a problem with.

Nevertheless I'm going to give up on this point. Good luck to you and let's hope the new chief and our community work to combat crime together. We have more murders in 2015 today than we did in all of 2014. Of course, you may not be interested in statistics like this since they don't matter...or maybe you will cherry pick it as evidence to support your idea to shout and extrapolate a huge generalization based on limited data!
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:36 AM
 
3,448 posts, read 3,127,729 times
Reputation: 3376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
sounds like you want people to panic.

what happened 10 years ago is definitely relevant when discussing crime stats.

all cities have crime and if it's down 26% from 10 years ago it puts things into perspective. It definitely doesn't mean crime is good. Why would anyone take that stance?
I don't think the statistical term outlier fits when there's any chance to apply a negative spin to a so-called talking point. Nope, the place has gone to hell and "we" know who to blame - "them". Lol, too predictable the crowd that shows up on these types of threads to blame "them"...like clock work.
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:01 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,842 posts, read 27,096,858 times
Reputation: 8900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
This was the us vs. them simplification I was referring to. You posted it at 10:10pm on 9/8. Not a big deal, just finding it for you. I bolded them for you the first time and am doing it above. Your points in the 2nd paragraph are built in an "us" vs. "them" relationship vs. "we" and "our" point of view.

I think we likely agree on more than we disagree on.

Totally agree there is work to be done but you can't deny the progress. Our city has doubled in size since 1993 and our crime rate is less than half of what it was then.

Knowing that, choose to focus on the negative if you wish. No one is saying there isn't work to be done. What I am calling out are those making huge generalizations about the community, without considering the bigger picture. When doing so, it turns out that the big picture doesn't support claims of an eroding/crime ridden community like many posters were claiming.
I believe that the translation is that when people living in gang infested neighborhoods get sick of the gang-related violence & give names to police than this situation will turn around.
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Mooresville, NC
2,143 posts, read 2,608,468 times
Reputation: 1660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
This was the us vs. them simplification I was referring to. You posted it at 10:10pm on 9/8. Not a big deal, just finding it for you. I bolded them for you the first time and am doing it above. Your points in the 2nd paragraph are built in an "us" vs. "them" relationship vs. "we" and "our" point of view.
Oh ok, gotcha. In this particular case, the police have said no one is talking to them about the murders (ie. the communities and even those assaulted). "Them" also referred to the people committing the crimes, guess I could have said "criminals" instead.

And yes, the police need to be in the communities where the crime is happening, that's just an efficient use of resources. I'd much rather see more foot patrols in high risk communities than traffic citations being issued in Myers Park as an example. Not sure why that is considered a "us vs. them" thing in your mind.

In terms of statistics, I wouldn't consider 5 years worth of data saying violent crime steadily increasing is too short term to be indicative of a potential bigger problem. Saying something like this past weekend is indicative of our city going to hell in a hand basket would be a knee jerk reaction however.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,712 posts, read 9,330,873 times
Reputation: 5226
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I believe that the translation is that when people living in gang infested neighborhoods get sick of the gang-related violence & give names to police than this situation will turn around.
yeah, I'm sure they haven't thought of this already.

it's not that simple.
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