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Cars that come standard with anti-theft systems? You can't just hot wire a car nowadays like you could in the 80's and 90's when they'd pick the car they wanted and take off.
Point is, there are statistics that can explain any angle any of us want to take.
This outbreak of gang related violence isn't something to disregard because the overall murder rate is down. This outbreak is a symptom of a much larger issue in the Charlotte area and that is a growing gang population. I would imagine most of this weekends murders will not result in any arrests as people won't talk to police about it. Until their communities have had enough and turn against them we'll continue to see this escalate. The police on the other hand need to do more to inject themselves into these communities and build trust, not just cruise around in their patrol cars.
“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.” - Twain
What are your sources of a growing gang population? I totally agree that fear of gangs is as real as it has ever been. I'm not sure whether this fear ties to reality or not. Is it outpacing city growth on a per capita basis?
1993 was Charlotte's deadliest year related to murders (129). Are you suggesting that gang violence wasn't a factor in these deaths? Remember, this was the height of the "gangsta rap" popular culture. Fear of gangs may have been even higher then as it is today. Oh, the reduction is totally related to better ER tactics, right?
I agree with the prescription of your last 2 sentences (greater trust and community collaboration) but am wary of the pitfalls of viewing this issue through a simple 'us vs. them' lens. Considering this an insulated, self-inflicted issue is pretty narrow-minded. This violence is not solely caused by the community most impacted by it. A lot of the racist opinions I read on this forum are based on this assumption.
This mentality is EXACTLY was causes a breakdown of trust and coordination in communities struggling with poverty, drug use, etc. We all can work to prevent gang violence by: improving the connectedness of our school communities, connecting affluent resources (time/relationships/support) to children in areas of need, and coordinating with police. Being a Charlotte problem, I believe we all own a share of responsibility in the numerous factors both known and unknown that contribute to crime rates. As we've seen, there are some factors that aren't even known.
...yes, 18+ in one night in Charlotte.
I saw 3 shootings last night, and one stabbing (AFAIK non in the media today).
I'm just saying that we have a ton of violent crime that isn't in the press...
What do you classify as violent crime? Are these people going to the hospital? Hospitals have a legal obligation to report incidents like this. I'm glad the news doesn't report every violent act.
Do you think they should?
I think the news already leans to heavily on reporting crime because they have to fill time somehow and it's a steady source of potential stories. Covering every violent occurrence on the news (even if the rate is low) is depressing and paints a picture of a much more violent community than reality.
Thanks. So for the data that we have through 2013, it seems violent crime is DOWN 26% compared to 10 years ago. Of course, this doesn't mean everything is rosy, but when it includes all violent crime (rape, murder, nonnegligent manslaughter, aggravated assault) it has to be positive right?
I used to think these trends that included multiple type offenses as the most susceptibility for manipulation (you can decide which assaults to report)...but coupling this with the reduction in homicide trend I think it's very difficult for the negative nancies to see this as anything other than progress. Our state and city is safer today than it was 10 years ago. If you watch the local news everyday or read a bunch of fear based websites highlighting buffoonery, you'll probably disagree. Here's a story profiling NC's statewide crime rate trend.
Or is this just more data manipulation and false statistics?
Our successful policing has definitely increased the amount of gang activity in prison. But I'd rather there be gang activity in prison than in the streets.
I wish there was a way for us to rehabilitate more successfully and focus as much attention on prevention as we should. As we allow some of our schools to become exceptionally poor, it will make it tougher to model success for our most vulnerable kids that the gang lifestyle is a one way ticket to jail/grave.
Last edited by Essequamvideri; 09-09-2015 at 12:09 PM..
1993 was Charlotte's deadliest year related to murders (129). Are you suggesting that gang violence wasn't a factor in these deaths? Remember, this was the height of the "gangsta rap" popular culture. Fear of gangs may have been even higher then as it is today. Oh, the reduction is totally related to better ER tactics, right?
I agree with the prescription of your last 2 sentences (greater trust and community collaboration) but am wary of the pitfalls of viewing this issue through a simple 'us vs. them' lens. Considering this an insulated, self-inflicted issue is pretty narrow-minded. This violence is not solely caused by the community most impacted by it. A lot of the racist opinions I read on this forum are based on this assumption.
This mentality is EXACTLY was causes a breakdown of trust and coordination in communities struggling with poverty, drug use, etc. We all can work to prevent gang violence by: improving the connectedness of our school communities, connecting affluent resources (time/relationships/support) to children in areas of need, and coordinating with police. Being a Charlotte problem, I believe we all own a share of responsibility in the numerous factors both known and unknown that contribute to crime rates. As we've seen, there are some factors that aren't even known.
What mentality of "us vs. them" are you referring to? Who is the "us" and who is the "them" in your analogy here? White vs. black? Police vs. citizens? Affluent vs. poor? Please clarify.
The point is, these murders were most likely (as reported) gang related. No one is talking and there will likely be no arrests, at least for a long while unless the police get lucky. Not really sure how you pigeon hole that as "racist opinions"....
Your last paragraph, for the most part, I agree with.
Thanks. So for the data that we have through 2013, it seems violent crime is DOWN 26% compared to 10 years ago. Of course, this doesn't mean everything is rosy, but when it includes all violent crime (rape, murder, nonnegligent manslaughter, aggravated assault) it has to be positive right?
There is nothing positive about 5039 violent crimes being committed and what happened a decade ago is irrelevant.
It sounds as if you try to spin this as something not worth worrying about. That's hardly the case.
There is nothing positive about 5039 violent crimes being committed and what happened a decade ago is irrelevant.
It sounds as if you try to spin this as something not worth worrying about. That's hardly the case.
sounds like you want people to panic.
what happened 10 years ago is definitely relevant when discussing crime stats.
all cities have crime and if it's down 26% from 10 years ago it puts things into perspective. It definitely doesn't mean crime is good. Why would anyone take that stance?
No one is arguing that the crime occurring is good. I am saying that context and overall trends matter. The story the OP posted is not indicative of a societal deterioration, perils of urbanism, or rampant gang violence. Fear mongers can be worried if they want (it's what they love to consume), but the overall trend regarding violent crime is a positive one in Charlotte.
Keep in mind that Charlotte doubled in population between 1993 and today. Pretty amazing! This makes the crime story even more positive.
As a few of you have mentioned and I've pointed out a couple times, statistics never tell the whole story. But it's a clearer picture than the anecdotal rambling about what you saw, or didn't see on the news. I think it's important to be aware that there is always going to be murkiness in reporting. This is why I initially started with homicides. I think it's difficult to cloud the numbers when you're talking about reporting murders vs. assaults. But you guys wanted to focus on violent crime, so I just pulled data on that - and it tells the same story!
The bottom line is that crime rates are declining in Charlotte and have been for quite a while. I don't think they will reduce forever. I don't think we have total control of how are going down. And I'm thinking 2015 may be a spike. But jumping from one story to make claims of a failing society, gun laws, race is baseless in fact.
Last edited by Essequamvideri; 09-10-2015 at 09:04 AM..
What mentality of "us vs. them" are you referring to? Who is the "us" and who is the "them" in your analogy here? White vs. black? Police vs. citizens? Affluent vs. poor? Please clarify.
The point is, these murders were most likely (as reported) gang related. No one is talking and there will likely be no arrests, at least for a long while unless the police get lucky. Not really sure how you pigeon hole that as "racist opinions"....
Your last paragraph, for the most part, I agree with.
You tell me. I highlighted it in your post. My point was the viewing the issue as insulated to us vs. them is counterproductive, oversimplified and narrow-minded.
You tell me. I highlighted it in your post. My point was the viewing the issue as insulated to us vs. them is counterproductive, oversimplified and narrow-minded.
I literally never said us vs. them in my posts so I have no idea what you are talking about. There is no "us vs. them" in my mind as I have no idea who would define either of those terms.
So using your own statistics, violent crime has actually risen steadily since 2010, but is down overall since the early 90's.
If I'm the Chief of Police I don't sleep better at night knowing that the city is safer than it was in the mid 90's but not as safe as it was just 5 years ago.
The sky isn't falling and Charlotte is still far safer than many other similarly sized metro areas but recent trends, as in real data not TV reports, do point to a negative trend.
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