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Old 06-17-2018, 06:32 AM
 
3,416 posts, read 3,226,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
I do think people are making this project sound a lot worse than it likely will be. The 50 year thing is pretty bad, but I donít buy people saying that traffic will actually get worse. Merging/exiting was a concern, but based on the video that was posted recently, that doesnít look bad. Sure, tolls are annoying but you donít have to use them and it should make traffic at least a little better for the non-toll lanes.

Now I just need to remember to avoid 77N at 10:30 PM too due to the construction because twice in the last week Iíve sat in standstill traffic because of it. Who knew that many people were on the road at 10:30 on a weekday...

Schools out and people from up North are headed down south for vacation. Plus not everyone works 9-5.

I have to say I'm glad they are doing the construction later and not during morning or afternoon rush hour.
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, NC
7,186 posts, read 11,234,288 times
Reputation: 30762
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
I do think people are making this project sound a lot worse than it likely will be. The 50 year thing is pretty bad, but I don’t buy people saying that traffic will actually get worse. Merging/exiting was a concern, but based on the video that was posted recently, that doesn’t look bad. Sure, tolls are annoying but you don’t have to use them and it should make traffic at least a little better for the non-toll lanes.
.
How did the video Kool Aid taste?

Why would anyone pay a toll to use the Lexus Lanes if the free lanes were not congested?

Cintra is in this to make money, not to benefit the public. It does them no good to have few people using the toll lane. In fact, if the free lanes were not congested, they would have to charge a very minimal toll to get people to use their lanes. It behooves them to have the free lanes as clogged up as possible so they can charge high amounts on their sliding scale of toll fees.

During one of the anti-toll lawsuit hearings, the state DOT has even come out and said this project is NOT going to reduce congestion.

I really wish that in a few years after the start of tolling that people will be able to say to the anti-toll'ers "see, I told you so", but I really believe that will not be the case.
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:45 AM
 
5,895 posts, read 7,750,004 times
Reputation: 3389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes17 View Post
How did the video Kool Aid taste?

Why would anyone pay a toll to use the Lexus Lanes if the free lanes were not congested?

Cintra is in this to make money, not to benefit the public. It does them no good to have few people using the toll lane. In fact, if the free lanes were not congested, they would have to charge a very minimal toll to get people to use their lanes. It behooves them to have the free lanes as clogged up as possible so they can charge high amounts on their sliding scale of toll fees.

During one of the anti-toll lawsuit hearings, the state DOT has even come out and said this project is NOT going to reduce congestion.

I really wish that in a few years after the start of tolling that people will be able to say to the anti-toll'ers "see, I told you so", but I really believe that will not be the case.
The lane count is being doubled in the part that has arguably the worst traffic (23-28), I just donít see how itís physically possible for congestion not to be reduced from what it is currently. Even if they make $0 in toll revenue, having the HOV lane should help congestion.
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:54 AM
 
51 posts, read 27,993 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes17 View Post
How did the video Kool Aid taste?

Why would anyone pay a toll to use the Lexus Lanes if the free lanes were not congested?

Cintra is in this to make money, not to benefit the public. It does them no good to have few people using the toll lane. In fact, if the free lanes were not congested, they would have to charge a very minimal toll to get people to use their lanes. It behooves them to have the free lanes as clogged up as possible so they can charge high amounts on their sliding scale of toll fees.

During one of the anti-toll lawsuit hearings, the state DOT has even come out and said this project is NOT going to reduce congestion.

I really wish that in a few years after the start of tolling that people will be able to say to the anti-toll'ers "see, I told you so", but I really believe that will not be the case.
Youíre so right. Theyíre talking about getting rid of toll lanes (which will still cost a arm and a leg). It would still be better than passing the bill of goods marlarkey on to future generations (for 50 years). As you just said the problem is that they just revealed in a session that it wouldnít matter. Regular lanes and toll lanes would both be conjested either way. It was all about not just Cintra but other politicians putting money in their pockets and selling us from the area here out. I would name one of them Iíll just say they didnít get voted back in as governor in 2016.
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,301 posts, read 2,257,584 times
Reputation: 2439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes17 View Post
How did the video Kool Aid taste?

Why would anyone pay a toll to use the Lexus Lanes if the free lanes were not congested?

Cintra is in this to make money, not to benefit the public. It does them no good to have few people using the toll lane. In fact, if the free lanes were not congested, they would have to charge a very minimal toll to get people to use their lanes. It behooves them to have the free lanes as clogged up as possible so they can charge high amounts on their sliding scale of toll fees.

During one of the anti-toll lawsuit hearings, the state DOT has even come out and said this project is NOT going to reduce congestion.

I really wish that in a few years after the start of tolling that people will be able to say to the anti-toll'ers "see, I told you so", but I really believe that will not be the case.
No HOT lane project anywhere in the US seeks to "reduce congestion".

It's purpose is to provide an option/alternative to being at the complete mercy of the free lanes and unspecified duration of backups

You are paying for a more predictable travel time guaranteed to flow at 45mph.

It is building an additional 1-2 lanes that will remove some cars from the free lanes that would be there if nothing was done.

It may not help but a tiny bit, but it's not going to make them worse either.

Because Charlotte has received so much funding and construction efforts over the last 10 years on I-85 and I-485, it's time for the state's other 8 million people outside of Charlotte to receive projects and funding in their areas.

Though I think I-77 deserves more free lanes as it's the 1st or 2nd most heavily-travelled highway in the state, right now it was this or nothing at all.

I hope NC will buy out Cintra to remove them from the equation, because their only use in this project is the fronting the $1 billion for construction that wouldn't have been available for another 10 years.
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,301 posts, read 2,257,584 times
Reputation: 2439
Quote:
Originally Posted by The True CLT Native Gal View Post
You’re so right. They’re talking about getting rid of toll lanes (which will still cost a arm and a leg). It would still be better than passing the bill of goods marlarkey on to future generations (for 50 years). As you just said the problem is that they just revealed in a session that it wouldn’t matter. Regular lanes and toll lanes would both be conjested either way. It was all about not just Cintra but other politicians putting money in their pockets and selling us from the area here out. I would name one of them I’ll just say they didn’t get voted back in as governor in 2016.
You would really be upset in Raleigh where it's outer-loop comparable to I-485 will be...

60% tolled with no free lanes at all!

To drive the entire length of the tolled section of 540 with cost $12-15 per trip.

Raleigh's Beltline is merely an old bypass attached to I-40 to become a 23 mile loop that's too small to make the case that Raleigh gets preferential treatment as evidenced by having 2 loops.

Funny though, in Raleigh there isn't any vocal opposition to the tolled projects as they realize that resources must be spread around the state.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:14 PM
 
3,118 posts, read 4,151,556 times
Reputation: 2577
Raleigh has a much more laissez faire citizenry than Charlotte about urban development and growth. Charlotteans are zealous and vocal about their city development.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA
4,632 posts, read 3,044,259 times
Reputation: 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
Funny though, in Raleigh there isn't any vocal opposition to the tolled projects as they realize that resources must be spread around the state.
It has nothing to do with resources being spread around. Itís due to the fact that the Triangle never got fíed over with a crappy contract with Cintra. Suggest that Cintra build HOT lanes on I-40 in Raleigh under the same 50-year contract and see what kind of reaction youíll get.

Raleigh has also complained in the past about highway funding being diverted elsewhere, with eastern NC catching most of the flak, though I think some of it was unwarranted. This was before the current scoring formula, which is one of the very few things McCrory got right.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:18 AM
 
157 posts, read 147,227 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
No HOT lane project anywhere in the US seeks to "reduce congestion".

It's purpose is to provide an option/alternative to being at the complete mercy of the free lanes and unspecified duration of backups

You are paying for a more predictable travel time guaranteed to flow at 45mph.

It is building an additional 1-2 lanes that will remove some cars from the free lanes that would be there if nothing was done.

It may not help but a tiny bit, but it's not going to make them worse either.

Because Charlotte has received so much funding and construction efforts over the last 10 years on I-85 and I-485, it's time for the state's other 8 million people outside of Charlotte to receive projects and funding in their areas.

Though I think I-77 deserves more free lanes as it's the 1st or 2nd most heavily-travelled highway in the state, right now it was this or nothing at all.

I hope NC will buy out Cintra to remove them from the equation, because their only use in this project is the fronting the $1 billion for construction that wouldn't have been available for another 10 years.



Seeing as how there is a 50 year no compete clause, I'm pretty sure things in the future will be much much worse compared with a non-toll road option (which one would assume would eventually involved more free lanes).


There is now a financial incentive to make sure that the free lanes are as congested as possible as often as possible. They will be literally making money, directly correlated, to how bad traffic is.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:48 AM
 
5,895 posts, read 7,750,004 times
Reputation: 3389
Quote:
Originally Posted by 618719 View Post
Seeing as how there is a 50 year no compete clause, I'm pretty sure things in the future will be much much worse compared with a non-toll road option (which one would assume would eventually involved more free lanes).


There is now a financial incentive to make sure that the free lanes are as congested as possible as often as possible. They will be literally making money, directly correlated, to how bad traffic is.
So does the 50 year thing not kick in until after it's finished? If they was supposedly a chance of having it changed now, wouldn't that mean that there could be a chance of changing it later, despite the contract?

So do you think traffic on the free lanes will be worse than it is now? I'm still confused as to how that would even be possible. First of all the construction is now part of the problem, so that will be done. And as long as some cars are using the toll lanes (and there will be plenty who can for free via HOV even if the toll is $20 like some of the conspiracy theorists think it will be), that is that many less cars on the free lanes. Sure, it's not going to magically get rid of all traffic on 77, but I have to think it's going to be an improvement.
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