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Old 02-03-2016, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,658 posts, read 1,863,450 times
Reputation: 1478

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It baffles me that they can't alter their formula to get funding for this project to build with state funds. I can understand the necessity to toll the future widening of 77 south of Uptown due to the massive cost, but not 77 North. Notice the money being allocated to build the interstate to nowhere (I-73/74) in the central part of the state? Or the upgrading of US 64 to interstate standards through sparsely populated parts of Eastern NC?

NCDOT needs to seriously revise how they prioritize projects. Your urban areas are growing astronomically but highway improvements to support that growth get trumped at times by projects such as those above. McCrory is the governor so this one is totally on him.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA
4,642 posts, read 3,046,928 times
Reputation: 2918
I think many of you will find this good news. The last two paragraphs in the article caught my attention. Sounds like blackmail to me.

Quote:
Tennyson said adding those projects back into the DOT system could roil funding for Charlotte-area projects for years to come, with some ripple effects spreading across nearby counties.

Edward Curran, chairman of the state Board of Transportation, added that canceling the Cintra contract would have "a chilling effect" on future highway contracts.


Read more at House on road to ending I-77 toll project :: WRAL.com
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:20 AM
 
3,668 posts, read 2,335,730 times
Reputation: 1970
Having just moved to Morganton from San Diego, I wanted to give my experience with these projects: San Diego Asn of Governments (SANDAG) our MPO signed an agreement to build one of these. You can see it on a map as CA route 125 south. It was an outright conventional toll road. It never met traffic predictions and went into financial distress for the operating company very quickly. Apparently, they actually had to pay property tax to San Diego County for the land the road occupied and sued to get their assessment reduced due to the lower ridership. When that failed, they went into bankruptcy, the county was able to buy the road for about 40% of what it cost to be built, the county took over operation, cut tolls 1/3 and traffic increased to the point that future projections on a parallel facility, I-805 were reduced to a point where road improvements that were expected to cost more than the 125 acquisition, could now be cancelled.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA
4,642 posts, read 3,046,928 times
Reputation: 2918
It passed the House.

Quote:
Rep. Larry Pittman, R-Cabarrus, tried to tack an amendment onto the bill that would preclude any future toll roads in North Carolina, but House Speaker Tim Moore ruled it out of order.
Read more at House tells I-77 toll road contractor to hit the road :: WRAL.com
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
3,679 posts, read 1,417,175 times
Reputation: 1495
Quote:
Originally Posted by LM117 View Post
It passed the House.
Man, they MUST be desperate for votes to do this. Too bad most NC people wont see through this smokescreen.
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:40 PM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,396,370 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by armourereric View Post
Having just moved to Morganton from San Diego, I wanted to give my experience with these projects: San Diego Asn of Governments (SANDAG) our MPO signed an agreement to build one of these. You can see it on a map as CA route 125 south. It was an outright conventional toll road. It never met traffic predictions and went into financial distress for the operating company very quickly. Apparently, they actually had to pay property tax to San Diego County for the land the road occupied and sued to get their assessment reduced due to the lower ridership. When that failed, they went into bankruptcy, the county was able to buy the road for about 40% of what it cost to be built, the county took over operation, cut tolls 1/3 and traffic increased to the point that future projections on a parallel facility, I-805 were reduced to a point where road improvements that were expected to cost more than the 125 acquisition, could now be cancelled.

Great for them.

This contract has provisions that include our state funds COVERING any losses associated with reduced road use. It also includes an agreement that we will not improve the number of lanes for 50 YEARS! It was a bad deal. It is not the same as whatever happened in San Diego.
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
3,679 posts, read 1,417,175 times
Reputation: 1495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
Great for them.

This contract has provisions that include our state funds COVERING any losses associated with reduced road use. It also includes an agreement that we will not improve the number of lanes for 50 YEARS! It was a bad deal. It is not the same as whatever happened in San Diego.
Wonder what becomes of the construction along the road. Hopefully they just widen the dang road and move on.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:23 PM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,396,370 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnluver8956 View Post
Wonder what becomes of the construction along the road. Hopefully they just widen the dang road and move on.

If you don't like sitting in congestion on I 77 you should hope this deal is cancelled. It is built on the contractual agreement, and premise, of 50 years of gridlock.

I am hoping this reignites support for the Red Line and we get lanes too. The shady methodology NCDOT used to determine merit was politically tainted. I hope someone in Raleigh will fight to get the type of infrastructure funding this roadway deserves.
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:04 PM
 
Location: charlotte
307 posts, read 160,916 times
Reputation: 251
It blows my mind. Durham got I-85 widened. Raleigh got I-40 widened west to I-85 and the eastern section is being widened now. Raleigh got a beltway that will be 6 lanes. Raleigh is getting a new interstate from Norfolk to Raleigh. Also, several (at least 3 ) highways have been converted to limited access freeways on Raleigh's far east side beyond I-95. All of this with only one small toll on Raleigh's beltway. W-S and Greensboro have got 2 new interstates I-73 and I-74 along with a new I-40 Bypass. W-S and Greensboro are getting new northern legs of a beltway. Plus I think US 29 north of Greensboro is being upgraded to an interstate. Plus US 52 from Lexington to W-S is being upgraded to I-295. Here in Charlotte we did get I-85 upgraded. But we will have the express toll lanes on I-77 north, Independence Blvd/Frwy, I485 from I77 to Independence, I-77 south may be express toll lanes when upgraded, and the Monroe Bypass will be a tollway. It seems we are getting screwed.
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:52 PM
 
Location: charlotte
307 posts, read 160,916 times
Reputation: 251
Everyone may not agree with me on my next comments. The state of NC borrowed from the highway fund for years. Does anyone know if this is still continuing? I do think that tolls, in some form, are a must for the future. NC recently jumped over Michigan to become the 9th most populous state. But the 50 year no compete clause makes this a bad deal. It also is unbelievable that RDU and W-S/Greensboro do not get any express toll lanes. Are our legislators that bad? It would have been more logical to have created a reasonable $3 toll on half of I-485 when it was built. The express lanes are bad news because only a segment of the population will be able to afford the toll and everybody else will sit in traffic.
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