Any Modernists? (Charlotte, Morrisville: transplants, sale, rent)

[susan42]

Originally Posted by Mattman704

Blech, solar paneling. Expensive to buy, expensive to install, expensive to maintain, expensive to repair. Having a mechanical engineer for a father whose sole job is to find and squeeze every last bit of efficiency out of energy that he can, I would urge you not to jump into all these so-called "green" or "modernist" technologies and approaches to building a house. Many of these technologies such as batteries in hybrid cars, solar panels etc. become extremely toxic at the end of their lifespan, and great care must be taken to dispose of them properly. Little mini rant there for ya. Oh, and by the way, you'll get a lot more help from people if you could please stop belittling and bashing all the other forms of housing that most of us do just fine in.

Was that directed at me?

[susan42]

Originally Posted by susan42

What is an "atomic" ranch-does it just mean dragged into the 21st century?

Sorry if I offended with this post, but my impression of a ranch home (small windows,lowish ceilings and tendancy to be quite dark) didn't fit withe contemporary or modern houses (vaulted ceilings,open plan,large windows and lots of light) so I wondered if atomic ranches were ranches like I thought that had been made lighter, had loft space removed to create high ceilings and smaller reception rooms knocked into 1 to make more open plan living.
Our home doesn't know what it is -ranch like at one end, but open plan with vaulted ceilings and sunken living room at the other. It is made from wood and has a tin roof.Was built in the 80s.

[susan42]

Originally Posted by Mattman704

Blech, solar paneling. Expensive to buy, expensive to install, expensive to maintain, expensive to repair. Having a mechanical engineer for a father whose sole job is to find and squeeze every last bit of efficiency out of energy that he can, I would urge you not to jump into all these so-called "green" or "modernist" technologies and approaches to building a house. Many of these technologies such as batteries in hybrid cars, solar panels etc. become extremely toxic at the end of their lifespan, and great care must be taken to dispose of them properly. Little mini rant there for ya. Oh, and by the way, you'll get a lot more help from people if you could please stop belittling and bashing all the other forms of housing that most of us do just fine in.

So what would your/ your fathers impression of other green technologies be
eg heat exchange and geothermal units-I think those are the correct terms

[wsobchak]

"Oh, and by the way, you'll get a lot more help from people if you could please stop belittling and bashing all the other forms of housing that most of us do just fine in."

Seventy percent of us do not and will not live in the houses you "do just fine in". We belittle your houses because their are planet-busting in size. We belittle them because absolutely nothing about them shows even slight concern for the environmental nightmare we are living in. We belittle them because they are built with such fragility that a strong man with a sledgehammer could level one in less than an hour. We belittle them because the price tags didn't remotely conform to either their actual value, or to the price an average American could prudently afford (that was a central part of the scam, and we'll be seeing the price of these white elephants plummet far lower than "real" houses). And yes, we belittle them because the very slight of them is a vulgar, garish reminder of nothing less than the cultural destruction of our society based on the whim of some builders and Wall Street types.

Here's what a thinking person should expect a house to look like in 2009 (or 1970, for that matter):

1. NO LAWNS.

Lawns are an environmental nightmare. Grass is not an efficient oxygen pump (trees are). The HOA makes you water, cut, and pour chemicals (which end up in the ground water) onto lawns. Emotionally, lawns provide no sense of space or privacy. It's like living on a moonscape.

Cost of retaining and maintaining a wooded lot: $0.00
Cost to the environment: None

2. Thick Exterior Walls.

In Arizona, modernists are building houses in the desert using old tires. They stack and rope the tires together, put soda cans filled with sand in the cneter of the tires, and then encased the entire thing in concrete. The result is a 3 foot thick concrete wall with rubber insulation. Even in the desert, heating and cooling costs are minimal.

I worked with a fellow from India who laughed at insubstantial construction of new homes. He mentioned that his birthplace in India was 700 years old, and that he expected it to be standing 700 years from now. Do you honestly think these houses constructed from greenbaord and cookie-thick "bricks" will be standing 50 years from now. We are going in the wrong direction. Next time you buy a house, ask the realtor how many centuries the house is expected to last.

Cost of rubber tires: $0.00
Cost of soda cans: $0.00

At least they could be building with doubled-up SIPs. Insulation is the single biggest bang for the buck there is.

3. Solar Panels

I admit solar technology isn't what it should be. But they are making improvements every day, in both output and collection they are now using frennel lens (like in lighthouses) for improved collection of sunlight.

The "too costly" argument is a canard. Not only do most states offer tax breaks (including NC), but even current systems will eventually pay for themselves in reduced utility costs. It's a matter of house size and energy usage that dictates whether you pay it off in 8 years or 12 years.

4. Water Cistern

You put a water cistern on the roof that collects rain water, which you then filter and use. It may not eliminate water bills, but it's a passive system, and therefore inexpensive.

5. Make the House Unbreachable.

We are living in a time of nightly home invasions. So why are they using outdated window technology (because it's cheap and off the shelf, that's why. Hey, try to find windows -or anything else - that isn't white).

Windows should be large enough to provide daylight lighting, but not so large that even a small human body can breach them. On the south and west, have floor-to-ceiling (south for passive solar, west to look at the sunset). Simply construct pocket walls that slide over them to adjust for light, privacy, and security). Inexpensive. Unbreachable. No alarm system.

6. Use Efficient Appliances.

How do you detect whether an appliance is energy efficient? Look for the "Energy Star" label. The "Energy Star" label guarantees that the item is an energy hog. I bought a refrigerator from Sears (yes, Sears - not "Algernon's Emporium of Fine Upscale Furnishings"). I bought the second smallest, second cheapest model. It was one of only two models being sold without the "Energy Star" approval. Guess what? It was the single most energy-efficient refrigerator they had. Why? BECAUSE IT WAS A NORMAL-SIZE REFRIGERATOR, NOT THE SIZE OF A RESTAURANT REFRIGERATOR.

7. Cost

According to economists, people can only prudently afford a house whose cost is equal to their gross yearly family income, and thenon-manipulated price of a middle-class house should trach to this number. And this was true until the mid 80's.

The current median gross family income is 47K. If you make 47K, you can afford a house that costs up to 47K.

It's time to end this bonanza for the housing industry, and readjust prices to normal levels. Houses should be built to give people shelter, not to speculate on and provide fuel for selling equally bogus derivatives.

8. House Size.

In 1950, a typical household consisted of 4.5 people living in 850 sq ft houses.

It's 2009. The typical household consists of 2.49 people. Why are they building houses that are 3000, 4000. 5000. 6000 sq ft? Because they can charge more. It's SUV syndrome. And all that space need to be heated and cooled and lit.

A typical modern house should be anywhere from 800 sq ft to 1500 sq ft.


9. Aesthetics

I saved this for last because I absolutely think this is the most critical item.

Architecture is an art form. It only moves forward.

In 1790, they built "Colonial" houses. They didn't call them "Colonial" then, but it was their idea of what a modern house should look like. You can go out and buy a "Colonial" house now, but if it was built after 1810, what you really bought was a vulgar, ersatz re-creation of a Colonial house.

It's 2009. In 2009, the shape of the house IS the design. The "style" is minimalist but not featureless. It doesn't have window shutters, which were once functional but had degraded into stylistic element by the early 1890's. By 1895, they were no longer used, as the Arts and Crafts movement appeared.

It's 2009. Houses should look at lot closer to the Jetson's house (not really) than the house Grover Cleveland was born in. They built an engine that artificially raised house prices (but offered plenty of credit to "afford" it). The built using criminal aliens. The built cheap and shoddy. They built planet busting. But most of all, they built gaudy, vulgar, trashy, embarrassing, and insulting.

If you were one of those that fell for this, I have no compassion for you, and neither do the 70% of us who want these tragic dumps torn down.

[lovesMountains]

Dude, seriously, you need a hobby or something...an outlet for all this frustration. Your degree of upset seems WAY out of proportion to the situation.

[wsobchak]

I probably get more upset that most. But most people ARE UPSET. Go ahead with your feints about my mental stability (I have been called insane thee times in a month, just because I don't like what has been foisted on us in the last 8 years.... thought that wasn't allowed by City-Data, but I guess it's OK if the poster isn't "playing ball").

Yes I am upset. I get upset every time I drive the streets of this vulgar city. I have been trying to leave for some time, but the carnage is national in scope (just worse here, since a couple of the central players in this scam were located here, and the local pols have been s-o-o-o accomodating).

But like I keep telling you... the game is over. There will be no recovery so you can go back to "business as usual". They are stuck with a housing inventory that isn't worth a dime, and can never be sold. Laughing at me won't change that. And remember, when you laugh at me, you are really laughing at a decided majority of people who are in turn laughing at you.

I don't laugh. I thinks it's tragic.

Tear them down. Hey, figure out a way to make some money tearing them.

[Carolina Blue]

Originally Posted by wsobchak

I probably get more upset that most. But most people ARE UPSET. Go ahead with your feints about my mental stability (I have been called insane thee times in a month, just because I don't like what has been foisted on us in the last 8 years.... thought that wasn't allowed by City-Data, but I guess it's OK if the poster isn't "playing ball").

Yes I am upset. I get upset every time I drive the streets of this vulgar city. I have been trying to leave for some time, but the carnage is national in scope (just worse here, since a couple of the central players in this scam were located here, and the local pols have been s-o-o-o accomodating).

But like I keep telling you... the game is over. There will be no recovery so you can go back to "business as usual". They are stuck with a housing inventory that isn't worth a dime, and can never be sold. Laughing at me won't change that. And remember, when you laugh at me, you are really laughing at a decided majority of people who are in turn laughing at you.

I don't laugh. I thinks it's tragic.

Tear them down. Hey, figure out a way to make some money tearing them.

Umm, and I actually thought you really wanted help looking for somewhere to live. And to think, I actually spent time researching communities and homes for you. Thank you for finally letting us know your true objective with this thread...........And the winner for the "one flew over the cuckoo's nest" award goes to...

[Mattman704]

Look, I'm not going to get into an environmental debate with you. I like my yard. I like my house that is a house and not a bubble for simply sleeping, eating and defacating in. I like the electricity that runs to it, generated by a combination of nuclear and coal power. I like my two-car garage that I only park one car in, so I can use the extra space to make my car go faster and put more emissions in the air to choke you. Why do I like all these things the way they are? BECAUSE THEY ALL WORK AS INTENDED AND I CAN EASILY AFFORD THEM. Money, money, money! Economics! Those solar panels, cisterns, uber thick walls and extra insulation - THEY ALL COST MONEY. The reason we all don't live in built-fresh-yesterday houses with titanium structures and fusion reactors (besides the tech not existing - that was a hyperbole) and drive hybrid electric fuel cell type thing cars is because, and this is key, unless a technology or building fabrication method is economical an deployable on a wide scale (read: majority of people can afford and use it) then it's either going to fail, or remain a niche market. I'm all for more clean-coal being brought online to power houses and grids, just like I'm wondering why we don't start cracking our coal into gasoline. Germans figured out how to do it in WWII. Sorry for the rant.

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by susan42

Was that directed at me?

No, I don't think so, LOL!!!!

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by wsobchak

I probably get more upset that most. But most people ARE UPSET. Go ahead with your feints about my mental stability (I have been called insane thee times in a month, just because I don't like what has been foisted on us in the last 8 years.... thought that wasn't allowed by City-Data, but I guess it's OK if the poster isn't "playing ball").

Yes I am upset. I get upset every time I drive the streets of this vulgar city. I have been trying to leave for some time, but the carnage is national in scope (just worse here, since a couple of the central players in this scam were located here, and the local pols have been s-o-o-o accomodating).

But like I keep telling you... the game is over. There will be no recovery so you can go back to "business as usual". They are stuck with a housing inventory that isn't worth a dime, and can never be sold. Laughing at me won't change that. And remember, when you laugh at me, you are really laughing at a decided majority of people who are in turn laughing at you.

I don't laugh. I thinks it's tragic.

Tear them down. Hey, figure out a way to make some money tearing them.

WSOBCHAK: you may be a visionary, okay? But it is YOUR vision. That doesn't mean it is everyone else's vision.

A house is just a place to live. I happen to enjoy "nesting" in my home and creating a whole environment for myself. Sounds like you have a vision of your environment, as well. But your vision doesn't trump mine - at least - not for ME it doesn't.

No one cares if you choose to create a particular type of home to live in. In fact, forum members have been very helpful w/ making suggestions to assist you in your journey to find that particular situation you are envisioning.

But dern . . . no use to be so rude. Really!

I choose not to take offense b/c I don't care what anyone else thinks about my home - it is my home - not theirs. But your earlier post slamming 18th C design, wh/ is MY thing, just points out that you are expecting tolerance from others about your vision - but you are totally intolerant about anyone else's choices.

There are people living off the grid in some of the western states. Perhaps you should check there? I also know of folks essentially "homesteading" in TN and W. VA.

Maybe you should check these areas out and find a community where you will be able to live a life that is based on low sustainability.

However, it appears what you are seeking isn't here in Charlotte . . . but don't shoot the messengers who have tried to answer your question.