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Old 04-25-2016, 03:42 PM
NDL
 
Location: Gaston County
3,108 posts, read 3,595,597 times
Reputation: 2024

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I haven't had the stomach to address this:

The Observer has ratcheted the HB2 issue to a fever pitch.

The GOP on a national level has reacted with their own rhetoric - the stench of which has kept me away from anything their candidates have had to say.

Y'all realize this has nothing to do with bathrooms, right?

Y'all realize this has all to do with a clash between value systems:

All throughout history, society has gone through periods whereby certain value systems are declared obsolete; new values replaced the old.

That's what this is about.

Yes. There are folks like me who got ticked at the thought of their spouses being made to feel uncomfortable, in certain situations.

But the issue is very broad in scope, and the media (and the GOP) has drawn attention to the very simplest aspect (bathroom) in what is a complex issue.

I am going to preempt anyone assuming, or jumping on, my comments. For I am not making a statement of any kind, in supporting one value system over another.

I am simply marking the situation from an observational standpoint.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:30 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,265,275 times
Reputation: 15480
Dear Tar Heels:

I'm sure most of you now know that every single adult American who picks up a newspaper or magazine, watches TV or the Internet, listens to the radio now know about HB2.

The only news the last month or two out of NC is #1 - HB2 and #2 Losing to Villanova.

In my view whether you support HB2 or are opposed to it is no longer relevant. Like it or not, it has hurt North Carolina. It is viewed by the majority of Americans as a mean spirited, worthless piece of legislation that solves no problem and legalizes discrimination. The bill itself is probably unconstitutional and I am willing to wager the courts in time will throw it out ... if not repealed outright.

My prediction: HB2 will no longer be around a year from now.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Allen
159 posts, read 116,110 times
Reputation: 129
I think a person that looks like a woman that was at one time a man, but now, an item is missing, should be able to use the restroom to the anatomy they have now, not what they were born with.

Transgender go into opposite restrooms all the time and have for years. I don't think there has been case after case after case of children being molested by a transgender man or woman before this ruling came about, has there? I'm really asking, I do not know.

It's a stupid law. Transgender men probably mostly are attracted to men, why would they try to slip their head under a stall door to see a woman going to the bathroom? This law doesn't make any since to me.

Ok, a staight man goes into a bathroom dressed as a woman and try's to peep at a woman through a stall door. This will happen weather the laws there or not. Again, this is a stupid law.

Ok, woman dresses like a man to go in a bathroom to peep at the men using the urinal. I would be more fearful of what the men would do to her than her seeing a penis. Again, this is such stupid law.

Ok, a closeted gay pervert man goes in to the bathroom and tries to sneak a peep at your son using the rest room, this law has nothing to do with that. Again, STUPID!
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Old 04-25-2016, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
10,389 posts, read 19,319,410 times
Reputation: 11265
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLN View Post
For an issue affecting less that .3% of the population, (and that is in the country, not just NC, of which I would take the under) this bathroom deal really has legs!
That's because it is NOT a "bathroom deal" and affects a lot more than just transgender people. Please read all of the ramifications of HB2 that have N O T H I N G to do with gender, bathrooms, or anything. Like overturning every municipal nondiscrimination law in the state that had been in place for years, if they differ from the state's versions. Like forbidding a town from raising the minimum wage, even if its cost of living is way higher than the state average. Like forbidding people to sue in state court over a state law.

The number of people potentially affects by this is much, much more than ".3%"

Educate yourself.
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Old 04-25-2016, 06:08 PM
 
570 posts, read 539,721 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois View Post
That's because it is NOT a "bathroom deal" and affects a lot more than just transgender people. Please read all of the ramifications of HB2 that have N O T H I N G to do with gender, bathrooms, or anything. Like overturning every municipal nondiscrimination law in the state that had been in place for years, if they differ from the state's versions. Like forbidding a town from raising the minimum wage, even if its cost of living is way higher than the state average. Like forbidding people to sue in state court over a state law.

The number of people potentially affects by this is much, much more than ".3%"

Educate yourself.
Well said. And besides, the Republican Party always harping about how big government should stay out of the business of local government. This is so incredibly hypocritical.
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Old 04-25-2016, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
10,389 posts, read 19,319,410 times
Reputation: 11265
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
NC residents haven't ever been exposed to large enough gay populations like in major cities otherwise they'd already know that we are normal, honest and gentle souls for the most part. I understand straight people not wanting to be around us all the time though, as I don't really understand what make lesbians click, and I have no interest being in their presence more than in small doses.
I'm sorry, but this is extremely patronizing. I am a gay man in NC (my whole life) and notice that you are in Atlanta. Have you ever even been to NC? You seem to believe that we are all nothing but a bunch of Bible-thumping hillbillies who have no concept nor exposure to GLBT folks. You live in GEORGIA! You of all people should know that you can't stereotype an entire state--I'm sure there are plenty of folks up north making those same comments about "people in Georgia"; you know better.

NC has several large cities, and while they aren't as big as Atlanta (and we like it that way), there is an "urban sensibility" in every large city in NC: Charlotte, Raleigh, Durha, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, and of course the "known liberal" places like Asheville and Chapel Hill/Carrboro.

I don't know anybody in Raleigh who is as ignorant of GLBT issues as you so condescendingly claim. In many of the rural areas, yes--just like the rural areas of Georgia are nothing like Atlanta.

Most North Carolinians DO "know that we are normal, honest and gentle souls". Even some of the misguided ones who vote for these extremist Republicans will often admit this (whether they truly believe it or not is something else, but generally "Eeek, he's gay!" is something you don't hear ANYWHERE anymore.). Many are honestly misguided or vote the way their church tells them, even if it doesn't quite match their own beliefs.

Sorry, but you don't get to speak for all gay people in claiming that NC is a backwoods hole in the ground who "just hasn't ever met any gay people". We had marriage equality before Georgia did. We have more Pride celebrations throughout the year than Georgia does. We have the largest Gay Film Festival in the Southeast, annually.

Please don't speak about "what North Carolinians are like", especially as a Georgian, unless you've been one, please.

And, your comment about lesbians is also pretty sexist AND homophobic.
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Old 04-25-2016, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
10,389 posts, read 19,319,410 times
Reputation: 11265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
I'm sure I shared a locker room with someone who was gay back when I played sports in HS. Its not a big deal as long as it's just an attraction.

I'm definitely not ready to abandon gender segregation.
I'm thinking (hoping?) he was being sarcastic...
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Old 04-25-2016, 08:32 PM
 
294 posts, read 170,026 times
Reputation: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Dear Tar Heels:

.

My prediction: HB2 will no longer be around a year from now.


But the damage it has done will last for years and years.


Just today Ashville lost a convention of 1.5 million. I would guess there has been little if any conventions or conferences booked anywhere in the past month. Only hope come November people will pay attention when they are in the voting booth.
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Old 04-25-2016, 09:07 PM
 
6,269 posts, read 9,978,517 times
Reputation: 4723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois View Post
I'm thinking (hoping?) he was being sarcastic...
Here's an honest question (no sarcasm). What is gender? Is it something that we're born into? If so, what about those who are born into bodies that don't fit the male or female category 100%?

What about those who are in same sex marriages, are happy with their physical gender; but play the role opposite of their birth gender? What about those who flip-flop their gender roles depending on who they're dating?

Here's why I ask these questions. Charlotte's new law allowed people to use the restroom that they identified themselves with (not the restroom in which they looked like they belonged to). In other words, Charlotte defined gender as being a state of mind rather than a physical state. Do you see how this opened the door for a gender segregation debate?
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:31 AM
 
1,462 posts, read 923,910 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois View Post
I'm sorry, but this is extremely patronizing. I am a gay man in NC (my whole life) and notice that you are in Atlanta. Have you ever even been to NC? You seem to believe that we are all nothing but a bunch of Bible-thumping hillbillies who have no concept nor exposure to GLBT folks. You live in GEORGIA! You of all people should know that you can't stereotype an entire state--I'm sure there are plenty of folks up north making those same comments about "people in Georgia"; you know better.

NC has several large cities, and while they aren't as big as Atlanta (and we like it that way), there is an "urban sensibility" in every large city in NC: Charlotte, Raleigh, Durha, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, and of course the "known liberal" places like Asheville and Chapel Hill/Carrboro.

I don't know anybody in Raleigh who is as ignorant of GLBT issues as you so condescendingly claim. In many of the rural areas, yes--just like the rural areas of Georgia are nothing like Atlanta.

Most North Carolinians DO "know that we are normal, honest and gentle souls". Even some of the misguided ones who vote for these extremist Republicans will often admit this (whether they truly believe it or not is something else, but generally "Eeek, he's gay!" is something you don't hear ANYWHERE anymore.). Many are honestly misguided or vote the way their church tells them, even if it doesn't quite match their own beliefs.

Sorry, but you don't get to speak for all gay people in claiming that NC is a backwoods hole in the ground who "just hasn't ever met any gay people". We had marriage equality before Georgia did. We have more Pride celebrations throughout the year than Georgia does. We have the largest Gay Film Festival in the Southeast, annually.

Please don't speak about "what North Carolinians are like", especially as a Georgian, unless you've been one, please.

And, your comment about lesbians is also pretty sexist AND homophobic.
Hes from NC apparently

His comments were very offensive I agree. I also agree that there is not a whole lot of difference in GA and NC when it comes to social and political issues.

One thing also is that according to everything I could find,NC LBGT Film Festival is the SECOND largest although I could not find what is the largest.

I do think the size of Atlanta and its influence is an advantage in perceptions of GA versus NC.A small difference at best.
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