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Old 09-28-2016, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Mooresville, NC
2,143 posts, read 2,611,764 times
Reputation: 1660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
OK, you've made it clear that you think that all white people share blame in Mr Scott's death. It also seems to stick out like a sore thumb that you never said that it was unfortunate that a cop was killed in Shelby. Nobody tried to blame it on all black people, but, really, you didn't care about that.
Good point.

Was there a petition when the black man killed a white cop in Shelby? What about when the cops down in Dallas, Missouri, Tennessee, Georgia, Louisiana were ambushed while responding to calls for help?

 
Old 09-28-2016, 12:27 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,872 posts, read 27,138,998 times
Reputation: 8938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
You are really misinterpreting the point.

I do not believe that all white people share blame in Mr. Scott's death. I have never said anything like that.

I absolutely think any life lost (certainly including police) to be unfortunate. This statement of commitment is supported by police and leaders throughout the community. This is not about finger pointing.
The cop killing has been brought up more than once regarding this topic. It happened shortly before Mr Scott's death. How many times did you say that it was unfortunate? I'm not even saying that you felt sorry about it. You did, however, jump on blaming cops for the death of the protester. I'm not misinterpreting anything.

You're welcome to your opinions. It's my opinion that you have a bias, & I pointed it out.
 
Old 09-28-2016, 12:41 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,872 posts, read 27,138,998 times
Reputation: 8938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Howl View Post
Good point.

Was there a petition when the black man killed a white cop in Shelby? What about when the cops down in Dallas, Missouri, Tennessee, Georgia, Louisiana were ambushed while responding to calls for help?
I've said repeatedly that there are good & bad in any group & that includes cops. Like the Charlotte incident, the shooter was known & Shelby is in the Charlotte broadcast market.

Cops being shot is a national problem. Did CMPD call in the license plate & have an idea that the guy with the joint & gun could be dangerous? Beats me. We know that he had a traumatic brain injury but we don't know the severity. We do know that one of his daughters posted a blatant lie about him sitting there reading a book. In some states she would be arrested for inciting a riot.
 
Old 09-28-2016, 12:56 PM
 
2,156 posts, read 2,355,735 times
Reputation: 3104
Esse,

I certainly value your opinion and share many of your statements on this forum. BUT, and this is my big but (single "t" even if I wanted to make it a double "t" just for fun). Many of the community leaders that have signed that commitment are already connected to similar types of work and it hasn't made the difference I, or others, thought it might. I've served on boards and committees with a few of those signees. Some are committed to work on changed, some are committed to work on their professional resume.

Bottom line in my opinion is personal responsibility. First, foremost, and always. If you can't have that, you can't move forward toward personally believing everyone is equal under the eyes of God, law, and citizens.

It has to start with the children. You hit on that in an earlier post. The schools are the powerful tool. But our society doesn't see schools as more than a babysitter for our children during the daylight hours.
That bright little girl in front of council the other night. Afraid of the police. Yet from the record, Mr. Scott did much more to physically harm little children than the police in the parking lot that afternoon. She didn't speak to being afraid of Mr. Scott, wonder why? If you don't think parent conversations and concerns shaped her shared thoughts you probably live with Alice........ in Wonderland.
 
Old 09-28-2016, 12:59 PM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,384,237 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I've said repeatedly that there are good & bad in any group & that includes cops. Like the Charlotte incident, the shooter was known & Shelby is in the Charlotte broadcast market.

Cops being shot is a national problem. Did CMPD call in the license plate & have an idea that the guy with the joint & gun could be dangerous? Beats me. We know that he had a traumatic brain injury but we don't know the severity. We do know that one of his daughters posted a blatant lie about him sitting there reading a book. In some states she would be arrested for inciting a riot.

Can you start your own thread about it? I think cops killed this year is down YOY, and hopefully stays that way. Any cop killed is a tragedy though. The "witnesses" at the Keith Scott scene have indeed been thoroughly discredited.

None of this devalues the importance of this statement of commitment! It's covered in the bullets listed and it's not an anti-police prerogative.

Stop distracting and deflecting. If you want to prevent riots like you saw, I think taking these perspectives seriously and working to correct them is a worthwhile endeavor. Don't sign it if you don't want to but don't accuse me of being anti-police. Cherry picking stories to fit your bias has nothing to do with this statement of commitment. In fact, I think they inflame tensions and make things worse. You can say this is what happened with the Scott case and you would be right.

Last edited by Essequamvideri; 09-28-2016 at 01:11 PM..
 
Old 09-28-2016, 01:09 PM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,384,237 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by getatag View Post
Esse,

I certainly value your opinion and share many of your statements on this forum. BUT, and this is my big but (single "t" even if I wanted to make it a double "t" just for fun). Many of the community leaders that have signed that commitment are already connected to similar types of work and it hasn't made the difference I, or others, thought it might. I've served on boards and committees with a few of those signees. Some are committed to work on changed, some are committed to work on their professional resume.

Bottom line in my opinion is personal responsibility. First, foremost, and always. If you can't have that, you can't move forward toward personally believing everyone is equal under the eyes of God, law, and citizens.

It has to start with the children. You hit on that in an earlier post. The schools are the powerful tool. But our society doesn't see schools as more than a babysitter for our children during the daylight hours.
That bright little girl in front of council the other night. Afraid of the police. Yet from the record, Mr. Scott did much more to physically harm little children than the police in the parking lot that afternoon. She didn't speak to being afraid of Mr. Scott, wonder why? If you don't think parent conversations and concerns shaped her shared thoughts you probably live with Alice........ in Wonderland.
I agree with a lot of what you have said. The group is actually larger than any prior and I hope they can be effective as you are correct that it hasn't really been a community priority in the past other than a speaking point in political races.

Not sure why you would make a dig like that in your last sentence. I think Mr. Scott was likely an awful parent and spouse. And I 100% understand the importance of parent conversations. Not a reason to downplay his death or consider it a non-issue. But that's not the point! The statement of commitment may be a result of the response to Mr. Scott's death, but the particulars of his issue are not the focus of the effort. If people are completely misinformed and upset, the response isn't to ignore their fear/pain/ignorance. It is to reassure and prove that their fears of brutality/distrust of police is unfounded.

I don't think any of what you said takes away from the importance of following through on the actions that surface through those that sign the statement of commitment.
 
Old 09-28-2016, 02:23 PM
 
2,156 posts, read 2,355,735 times
Reputation: 3104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
I agree with a lot of what you have said. The group is actually larger than any prior and I hope they can be effective as you are correct that it hasn't really been a community priority in the past other than a speaking point in political races.

Not sure why you would make a dig like that in your last sentence. I think Mr. Scott was likely an awful parent and spouse. And I 100% understand the importance of parent conversations. Not a reason to downplay his death or consider it a non-issue. But that's not the point! The statement of commitment may be a result of the response to Mr. Scott's death, but the particulars of his issue are not the focus of the effort. If people are completely misinformed and upset, the response isn't to ignore their fear/pain/ignorance. It is to reassure and prove that their fears of brutality/distrust of police is unfounded.

I don't think any of what you said takes away from the importance of following through on the actions that surface through those that sign the statement of commitment.

Sorry Esse, wasn't meant to be a dig, only my thoughts.

In my dream I see that precocious little girl from the commissioner's meeting standing in a parking lot scared to death with a choice of running to a Mr. Scott or a Mr. Policeman and I see her turn toward the Mr. Scott figure. Why? The answer isn't previous police action.
 
Old 09-28-2016, 03:11 PM
 
501 posts, read 339,706 times
Reputation: 416
My commitment is that I will support anyone that isn't stupid and obeys police officers and complies when given an instruction and isn't shot for being normal. I also support mothers attending parenting workshops to teach them to raise their children responsible citizens and instill respect for others regardless of race. I also support black leaders in attending history classes so they can learn that all races have suffered at one time or another and that "privilege" isn't something that a person is born with. It is something that is earned through hard work, studying, and being part of society. I also support felons being sentenced to life for possessing a weapon after release from prison. All lives matter!
 
Old 09-28-2016, 03:37 PM
NDL
 
Location: Gaston County
3,130 posts, read 3,612,932 times
Reputation: 2050
Essequamvideri:

Oftentimes, the creators of studies and charts spend too much time in an academic environment to be constructive or objective.

What are we giving Black children? What does society offer them? What incentive do they have to work within the system?

There's an epidemic of underemployed people in America. Getting an education is only valuable if there are quality, good paying, jobs awaiting them when they graduate.

I don't think that more empathy and understanding will help.

America has changed. In some ways for the better, and in some ways, not.

When my Parents were young, employers had a greater commitment to their employees. There was some sense of loyalty. Employers oftentimes trained, and promoted, from within.

When people have an opportunity to advance, it gives them an incentive to be a productive member of society. This truth speaks to a person of any race, in any society. And in the America of yesteryear, the reality for a lot of folks, is that if they put in their dues, eventually they would grow. And in this is hope, and a reason to work within the system, and be a productive member of society.

When the opportunity of upward mobility is diminished, people are crushed. It then becomes a downward spiral, thus society is not held together by positive forces (upward mobility), but by negative forces (brute strength).

Everyone has a diversity of strengths, interests, etc. We have outsourced millions of jobs that required skilled labor. What replaced these good paying jobs? Low paying retail.

So a child grows up, and sees a Parent or relative living a good, but hard, life. They don't have a lot. Not much opportunity for advancement. But it's a good, decent, honest, life.

On the other hand, in the neighborhood they see someone who's running outside of the law. And they have nice cars, cash, and influence.

Which route will the child take? What incentive has society offered them?
 
Old 09-28-2016, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Noth Caccalacca
5,553 posts, read 6,669,343 times
Reputation: 4838
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
Essequamvideri:

Oftentimes, the creators of studies and charts spend too much time in an academic environment to be constructive or objective.

What are we giving Black children? What does society offer them? What incentive do they have to work within the system?

There's an epidemic of underemployed people in America. Getting an education is only valuable if there are quality, good paying, jobs awaiting them when they graduate.

I don't think that more empathy and understanding will help.

America has changed. In some ways for the better, and in some ways, not.

When my Parents were young, employers had a greater commitment to their employees. There was some sense of loyalty. Employers oftentimes trained, and promoted, from within.

When people have an opportunity to advance, it gives them an incentive to be a productive member of society. This truth speaks to a person of any race, in any society. And in the America of yesteryear, the reality for a lot of folks, is that if they put in their dues, eventually they would grow. And in this is hope, and a reason to work within the system, and be a productive member of society.

When the opportunity of upward mobility is diminished, people are crushed. It then becomes a downward spiral, thus society is not held together by positive forces (upward mobility), but by negative forces (brute strength).

Everyone has a diversity of strengths, interests, etc. We have outsourced millions of jobs that required skilled labor. What replaced these good paying jobs? Low paying retail.

So a child grows up, and sees a Parent or relative living a good, but hard, life. They don't have a lot. Not much opportunity for advancement. But it's a good, decent, honest, life.

On the other hand, in the neighborhood they see someone who's running outside of the law. And they have nice cars, cash, and influence.

Which route will the child take? What incentive has society offered them?
How very true! Wasn't it Charlotte that was found to be the city at the bottom of the barrel in terms of upward mobility? We now live in a country that no longer has enough jobs to sustain the vast majority of the population with a middle-class lifestyle. More than the much-lamented outsourcing of jobs, is the fact that automation is responsible for the disappearance of so many jobs. Even high-tech jobs can be outsourced to places like India in a matter of a few weeks. So any loyalty to a company is an attribute of the past.

Even a good education is no longer a guarantee of a good job. We all know people with degrees working in jobs that don't require them. The English teacher working in Starbucks! Neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton can really offer anything more than lip service to major fixes to these problems, assuming solutions even exist to correct them.

There's hardly any motivation left to change anything for poor minority people. Getting a high school diploma nowadays makes you employable to no one and trade school and community college costs more than many poor families can afford. The US economic system has basically negated poor high school graduates to lifetime unemployment. Couple that with a criminal record and you're effectively shut of ever having a legitimate job.

I get such a laugh out of people who say "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get a job!" Easier said than done in this day and age. What do you say to a 15 y.o. ghetto kid, when he says why work at McDonald's for $7.25 an hour, when he makes $500 a night selling drugs? Working at Mickey D's isn't going to get you the girl or the Escalade, which may be your only measure of success!
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