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Old 12-08-2016, 07:50 AM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
4,976 posts, read 8,706,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
I think that in the next few years, the "No Child Left Behind" mantra will morph into "If some Students are a PITA, then too bad ...so sad ...They left themselves behind".
This would be great!
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Noth Caccalacca
5,549 posts, read 6,659,442 times
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One thing that Charlotte hasn't tried doing to any great extent, is to pour "extra money" into its lowest-performing schools to increase test scores. After living in one of New Jersey's poorest cities, that is still crying for yet more money to solve its myriad problems, I can tell you that "more money" doesn't work! Some inner-city schools receive a third more funding per student than the wealthy suburban districts (paid for through NJ's income tax) and the test scores are still in the toilet. Of course, a lot of those funds end up paying for useless administrative patronage jobs, rather than school supplies or better teachers. Mark Zukerberg's $100,000,000 check to Newark didn't exactly do much for that city. It disappeared down the education rathole, never to be seen again. I guess a few administators and teachers enjoyed those educational conferences in Honolulu and Las Vegas and a few buckets of paint were applied to Newark's older schools which date back to the 1890's.

No Child Left Behind was a fatally-flawed, good idea that ended up costing billions and produced negligible results. Ideally, being able to compare school results across state lines might have been able to shine a light on what worked in academically successful schools, but most school districts feared they would end up at the bottom of the barrel and demanded changes to material taught. Every state ended up with its own unique version of "the test" that produced results that couldn't be compared across state lines. When Mississippi ended up with higher test scores than Massachesetts, but couldn't duplicate that greater success with old standardized tests, you knew the system was rigged!

It seems to me that unless you have strong parental involvement, no matter what the race, the resulting outcome isn't going to be pretty. Money helps, but if parents are indifferent to their children's academic achievements, they'll end up with academic losers!
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:20 PM
 
501 posts, read 338,844 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
One thing that Charlotte hasn't tried doing to any great extent, is to pour "extra money" into its lowest-performing schools to increase test scores. After living in one of New Jersey's poorest cities, that is still crying for yet more money to solve its myriad problems, I can tell you that "more money" doesn't work! Some inner-city schools receive a third more funding per student than the wealthy suburban districts (paid for through NJ's income tax) and the test scores are still in the toilet. Of course, a lot of those funds end up paying for useless administrative patronage jobs, rather than school supplies or better teachers. Mark Zukerberg's $100,000,000 check to Newark didn't exactly do much for that city. It disappeared down the education rathole, never to be seen again. I guess a few administators and teachers enjoyed those educational conferences in Honolulu and Las Vegas and a few buckets of paint were applied to Newark's older schools which date back to the 1890's.

No Child Left Behind was a fatally-flawed, good idea that ended up costing billions and produced negligible results. Ideally, being able to compare school results across state lines might have been able to shine a light on what worked in academically successful schools, but most school districts feared they would end up at the bottom of the barrel and demanded changes to material taught. Every state ended up with its own unique version of "the test" that produced results that couldn't be compared across state lines. When Mississippi ended up with higher test scores than Massachesetts, but couldn't duplicate that greater success with old standardized tests, you knew the system was rigged!

It seems to me that unless you have strong parental involvement, no matter what the race, the resulting outcome isn't going to be pretty. Money helps, but if parents are indifferent to their children's academic achievements, they'll end up with academic losers!
In a liberal society, money solves everything except its intended purpose. You summarized it well in your last paragraph. I have said this all along, yet there are those that disagree. A school can buy all the computers, books, and technology they wish, but if they are not used as intended, they mean nothing. Still, the governing bodies are obsessed with ensuring that poor performing students in poorer areas are bused to better schools with better students to increase performance. That has been a idea and a movement that has proven to be a failure and has only degraded the education to the schools with the better students. It is all about parents and role models. An absentee father isn't helpful.
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:59 PM
 
2,150 posts, read 2,348,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lassielad View Post
In a liberal society, money solves everything except its intended purpose. You summarized it well in your last paragraph. I have said this all along, yet there are those that disagree. A school can buy all the computers, books, and technology they wish, but if they are not used as intended, they mean nothing. Still, the governing bodies are obsessed with ensuring that poor performing students in poorer areas are bused to better schools with better students to increase performance. That has been a idea and a movement that has proven to be a failure and has only degraded the education to the schools with the better students. It is all about parents and role models. An absentee father isn't helpful.
Ageed!

Regarding the bold above:
Those few instances that prove to be successful are the exception rather than the rule.

Many find this methodology is a foolproof path for diluting the issue into statistical oblivion. It's simply a way of spreading the underachievers around so they make less numerical impact.

Segregation, no segregation... doesn't matter a hoot. Provide the opportunity for learning to those you've got regardless of where they choose to live or attend class.
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Noth Caccalacca
5,549 posts, read 6,659,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lassielad View Post
In a liberal society, money solves everything except its intended purpose. You summarized it well in your last paragraph. I have said this all along, yet there are those that disagree. A school can buy all the computers, books, and technology they wish, but if they are not used as intended, they mean nothing. Still, the governing bodies are obsessed with ensuring that poor performing students in poorer areas are bused to better schools with better students to increase performance. That has been a idea and a movement that has proven to be a failure and has only degraded the education to the schools with the better students. It is all about parents and role models. An absentee father isn't helpful.
It's not exactly true that busing has been a failure. There are studies that have been done that do show improvement in test scores of poor kids that have been bused to much higher-achieving schools. The question that is now raised, is whether the expense of busing kids to other schools is justified by the increase in test scores. Also, vocabulary is increased just by going to school with wealthier kids, who even by the age of two, have double the vocabulary of their ghetto counterparts.

In my former home state, busing can't be used to achieve desegregation because each and every town is its own school district and is only a few sq miles. You can live across the street from an excellent high school and end up having to walk a mile and a half to a crappy one because that excellent school is in a different town and you go to your town or city's schools, no exceptions allowed. In some town and cities, pretty much all of the schools stink, so charters are just about the only solution. I always thought school buses were for people who lived in the boondocks or were just used for taking the football team to another town!
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:11 AM
 
501 posts, read 338,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
It's not exactly true that busing has been a failure. There are studies that have been done that do show improvement in test scores of poor kids that have been bused to much higher-achieving schools. The question that is now raised, is whether the expense of busing kids to other schools is justified by the increase in test scores. Also, vocabulary is increased just by going to school with wealthier kids, who even by the age of two, have double the vocabulary of their ghetto counterparts.

In my former home state, busing can't be used to achieve desegregation because each and every town is its own school district and is only a few sq miles. You can live across the street from an excellent high school and end up having to walk a mile and a half to a crappy one because that excellent school is in a different town and you go to your town or city's schools, no exceptions allowed. In some town and cities, pretty much all of the schools stink, so charters are just about the only solution. I always thought school buses were for people who lived in the boondocks or were just used for taking the football team to another town!
There was a decade for which the cities of San Francisco, St. Louis, Kansas City, Nashville, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, and Charlotte were monitored and evaluated to determine the success or failure of desegregation busing. At the conclusion, it was summarized that busing students to different schools made no difference in the socialization or performance of the students involved. Also determined was that the "maintenance" factors (facilities, general appearance, etc) made absolutely no difference. Success or failure is all about the family, not the school. Many brilliant people had very humble beginnings but good parenting.
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Old 12-09-2016, 07:09 AM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,381,157 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lassielad View Post
There was a decade for which the cities of San Francisco, St. Louis, Kansas City, Nashville, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, and Charlotte were monitored and evaluated to determine the success or failure of desegregation busing. At the conclusion, it was summarized that busing students to different schools made no difference in the socialization or performance of the students involved. Also determined was that the "maintenance" factors (facilities, general appearance, etc) made absolutely no difference. Success or failure is all about the family, not the school. Many brilliant people had very humble beginnings but good parenting.
Link?
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Old 12-09-2016, 08:28 AM
 
501 posts, read 338,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
Link?
Funny. Where are your responses to my many requests to you to back up your previous rants?
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Old 12-09-2016, 08:59 AM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,381,157 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lassielad View Post
Funny. Where are your responses to my many requests to you to back up your previous rants?

What did I miss? I've shared a ton of documentation.
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:39 AM
 
6,598 posts, read 4,553,077 times
Reputation: 13237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
Link?
Asking for a link to one study is kinda ridiculous. For every study that claims integration raises test scores for poor and minority kids, there is another that shows it doesn't and MANY that show the effect is very,very minimal and that any effects in elementary school are not retained into middle and high school.

There are thousands of studies out there. Which ones should be believed? Only those that support your views? Based on studies, there is no one right answer. That reality is supported by years of educational philosophies and machinations netting very little in the way of increased academic achievement.
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