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Mikey, i was being sarcastic with the “not directed at me” comment. C’mon dude, u should be quicker than that. You have this premise of you think you either know who I am or where i live. Its a faulty premise. My exuberance stems from the so called self proclaimed experts being so totally and completely incorrect on what would happen. Being fair, you sound absolutely clueless on what transpired. Instead of just admitting you were WRONG, you and the other lemmings are developing this infamous KH puppeteer theory....It is absolutely frickin comical watching you guys spin this as you go along
Who is incorrect on what would happen? We all knew Merriell and Heintel would get exactly what they wanted from the start. The straw man nonsense is getting old.
Mikey, i was being sarcastic with the “not directed at me” comment. C’mon dude, u should be quicker than that. You have this premise of you think you either know who I am or where i live. Its a faulty premise. My exuberance stems from the so called self proclaimed experts being so totally and completely incorrect on what would happen. Being fair, you sound absolutely clueless on what transpired. Instead of just admitting you were WRONG, you and the other lemmings are developing this infamous KH puppeteer theory....It is absolutely frickin comical watching you guys spin this as you go along
um.... ok.
This is the disjointed thought process you've become infamous for and what makes it so ez to see you coming a mile away - "Little Town Feel"... when you fail hard running for at large BOE spewing nonsense all over the county, this is what happens. It follows you. You're more transparent than this BOE pretends to be.
Your motivation has always been obvious and it was never (or will ever be) about education and the kids of UC. "House value is a primary concern". You want to believe that myself and others were "completely incorrect on what would happen"... you are projecting this based on your personal views. Go back and read through this post again - because you obviously didn't comprehend what many of us were saying when you purportedly read it the first time. You came here acting all obtuse trying to bait the folks who were regularly contributing to this thread - gloating, childish. When that didn't net you the proper reaction, it didn't take long to show your true colors.
Many of us called it EXACTLY right. What transpired is EXACTLY what we suspected. In the end, the process devolved into EXACTLY what the BOE did last time. Your failure to see this or, more appropriately your ignorance, has blinded you to the big picture. You got a positive outcome, so everyone else becomes "clueless". Your failure, that is truly what I would call frickin comical. So save it here and go back to arguing on social media with parents who are truly clueless and don't remember EXACTLY what happened last time... folks who just don't know... your place is not at the big boy's table talking with who do know the real deal. Your BS doesn't fly.
Somers, i personally do not want to see kids upset and i am sure its stressful for child and parent that if this redistricting didnt work out for them could cause heartache. I do not know what community you live in, but if it didnt work out for you, my condolences. No redistricting is perfect and there will be people unhappy from the fallout. Every families situation is different. If you go back and read my posts, it was not so much that i was an advocate of this redistricting. As i stated prior, it didnt affect me. This time nor last time. My personal beef if you will is directed to people like Mikey, Bubba, and Logical. 4 years ago, they were basking in their glory. Strutting like peacocks. They actually enjoyed the suffering people were going thru. They would proclaim that groups like CAPS and United to stop whining....get over it....to bad for you. They also proclaimed that the 2014 redistricting was the greatest thing and nothing would change....Now there is egg all over their faces. They present themselves as so called experts, yet basically every one of their predictions turned out WRONG. Instead of admitting they got it wrong, they will explain it away with conspiracy theories and these nefarious secret groups conspiring to brainwash people for their vote.
I hope everything works out for your kids, good luck
My family was affected in 2014 & I was active on the infamous threads at that time. I recall things very differently about the main players on this board - it was actually quite the opposite! They were supportive of families being moved & encouraging of open, reasoned dialogue (agreement or dissent). I agreed with them sometimes & not others (I know it’s a crazy concept, but I like to think for myself & when I don’t fully understand something I like to ask questions & gather more information). They even called out some of the BS the previous board perpetrated & they said numerous times it was too much & affected too many. Where it went downhill was when people from the CAPS camp began logging in under various different usernames (sort of like now - haha) & began spewing drama & mucking up the reasoned conversation with accusations & ugliness, & after that the mud-slinging went both ways. I think that may be the part you are more familiar with, unfortunately (as you missed the good, intellectual discussion that took place prior to that). It’s funny because as I remember it anyone who spoke any differing opinions on those CAPS or United pages was quickly shamed & attacked - those forums were only for one mindset. Your blindness to that & your responses here say a lot about who you are despite your hourly claims you are not tied to WO or CAPS.
Of course, this is just my recollection. Interesting how people see things differently, isn’t it?
I have to call this out - my family was affected in 2014 & I was active on the infamous threads at that time. I recall things very differently about the main players on this board - it was actually quite the opposite! They were supportive of families being moved & encouraging of open, reasoned dialogue (agreement or dissent). I agreed with them sometimes & not others (I know it’s a crazy concept, but I like to think for myself & when I don’t fully understand something I like to ask questions & gather more information). They even called out some of the BS the previous board perpetrated & they said numerous times it was too much & affected too many. Where it went downhill was when people from the CAPS camp began logging in under various different usernames (sort of like now - haha) & began spewing drama & mucking up the reasoned conversation with accusations & ugliness, & after that the mud-slinging went both ways. I think that may be the part you are more familiar with, unfortunately (as you missed the good, intellectual discussion that took place prior to that). It’s funny because as I remember it anyone who spoke any differing opinions on those CAPS or United pages was quickly shamed & attacked - those forums were only for one mindset. Your blindness to that & your responses here say a lot about who you are despite your hourly claims you are not tied to WO or CAPS.
Of course, this is just my recollection. Interesting how people see things differently, isn’t it?
Hope, people like you and Mikey give yourselves to much credit. You spin up a theory in your head and present it as cold hard facts. Its a pathetic way to think, but it is your right. Its so easy to lump me into what you view as the “enemy” camp....My opinion differs from yours, so automatically i have to be a CAPS spy. Any differing opinion has to be from those “bad” people, right? I mean it isnt possible that I could be one of the 99.9% of the population that isnt associated with CAPS, its not possible, right?
You guys seem to have a big stick up your butts about this “WO” and CAPS. I dont live in WO, dont even live in WC. I have never attended a CAPS function....But again, because you and Mikey ASSUME something, it has to be fact, right? Its not like you could possibly be wrong in your assumptions. Thats not even a remote possibility to consider because you are the self proclaimed experts on here
What i find a bit disingenuous and hypocritical from posters on here is back in 2014, when neighborhoods and groups such as CAPS and United where protesting and organizing, people like you, Mikey, et al werent supportive of them.....Oh no, just the opposite, you railed against them....”Shut Up”....”Move On”....”Let It Go”. When there was talk about a possible lawsuit, you screamed from the rooftops how could these people waste the counties money and these parents were spoiled, self entitled people. Fast forward to 2018, now the outrage is justified? Or is it that YOU get to determine what is outrageous. If it doesnt fit your criteria, then these people should just shut up. Seems pretty close minded if yiou ask me....Keep coming up with your theories of who I am and sharing. Your theories are entertaining along with your predictions
Hope, people like you and Mikey give yourselves to much credit. You spin up a theory in your head and present it as cold hard facts. Its a pathetic way to think, but it is your right. Its so easy to lump me into what you view as the “enemy” camp....My opinion differs from yours, so automatically i have to be a CAPS spy. Any differing opinion has to be from those “bad” people, right? I mean it isnt possible that I could be one of the 99.9% of the population that isnt associated with CAPS, its not possible, right?
You guys seem to have a big stick up your butts about this “WO” and CAPS. I dont live in WO, dont even live in WC. I have never attended a CAPS function....But again, because you and Mikey ASSUME something, it has to be fact, right? Its not like you could possibly be wrong in your assumptions. Thats not even a remote possibility to consider because you are the self proclaimed experts on here
What i find a bit disingenuous and hypocritical from posters on here is back in 2014, when neighborhoods and groups such as CAPS and United where protesting and organizing, people like you, Mikey, et al werent supportive of them.....Oh no, just the opposite, you railed against them....”Shut Up”....”Move On”....”Let It Go”. When there was talk about a possible lawsuit, you screamed from the rooftops how could these people waste the counties money and these parents were spoiled, self entitled people. Fast forward to 2018, now the outrage is justified? Or is it that YOU get to determine what is outrageous. If it doesnt fit your criteria, then these people should just shut up. Seems pretty close minded if yiou ask me....Keep coming up with your theories of who I am and sharing. Your theories are entertaining along with your predictions
Did the BOE chair send you here to try to shut down this discussion? Do you have a point?
Here is some free advice—-you might want to cut back on the verbosity particularly in your FB tirades. People don’t read past three or four sentences.
Hope, people like you and Mikey give yourselves to much credit. ...
What i find a bit disingenuous and hypocritical from posters on here is back in 2014, when neighborhoods and groups such as CAPS and United where protesting and organizing, people like you, Mikey, et al werent supportive of them.....Oh no, just the opposite, you railed against them....”Shut Up”....”Move On”....”Let It Go”. When there was talk about a possible lawsuit, you screamed from the rooftops how could these people waste the counties money and these parents were spoiled, self entitled people. Fast forward to 2018, now the outrage is justified? Or is it that YOU get to determine what is outrageous. If it doesnt fit your criteria, then these people should just shut up. Seems pretty close minded if yiou ask me....Keep coming up with your theories of who I am and sharing. Your theories are entertaining along with your predictions
Since you're using my name in vain I wanted to respond because you touched on a few very important points...
You're completely entitled to your opinion, but I don't like revisionist history. I won't speak for anyone else, just me and attempt to explain how you are misremembering what happened leading up to 2014. You called it a $#@! show and on that I agree 100% with you. However, you are clearly under the impression that CAPS (and "organized" anti-redistricting groups in general) were not a contributing factor to the $#@! show. You're wrong, they fed the $#@! show and worked against themselves. Let me explain.
There were several overlapping sideshows in 2013/4... Each of them contributed to the big picture and you can't shrug them off to lay all the blame at the feet of the BOE. I won't assign a metric to the blame, we can debate who contributed more or the most to the $#@! show, but like with anything else the total is a sum of all the parts. If you weren't helping, you were hurting.
First off, consider the BOCC and BOE relationship... to call it contentious would be the understatement of a lifetime. I mean come on - we sued ourselves, got a ridiculous jury award from ourselves, and Webb made some crazy strategic plan to spend it all. A spending spree that nobody in their right minds would think could happen, in the face of an appeal everyone knew would happen. BOCC and BOE relationship - BAD.
Secondly, we had a school capped... and not just any school. Marvin Rich's Middle School! The stories of the carnage from sharing lockers and crowded halls were epic. I'm not sure how the kids survived, but we were going to mobilize all man power available to come to their rescue! In fairness, we had other schools with utilization issues. It was the peak of the MS bubble - we shouldn't have expected less. But, the key point here is that a school was officially capped - which meant, if you bought anywhere in the MRMS cluster, your MS kid was bused to Parkwood. That had to be addressed... and I'm not saying that because it was MR, I'm saying that it would have been needed to be addressed anywhere in any cluster.
Thirdly, we paid for a McK population study... still debatable what he may have said or not said, behind closed doors or not. He said, she said. It doesn't really matter. A study was published and it had some clear themes in it - we had a MS bubble and Marvin was aging out. Those 2 things were abundantly clear. This is likely where it would be appropriate to assign blame to UCPS staff like the super and asst super. They didn't need a redistricting study, they got what they needed from the population study. It's easy when we can spend that giant jury award.
Fourth, we had powerful personalities on both the BOCC and BOE taking to social media, camera time, etc. They were calling each other out, with the only result being to dig their heels in deeper. Lawyers versus lawyers... it was frankly ridiculous. Combine that with very weak BOE members and you do not have an environment for finding any solutions.
Fifth, enter anti-redistricting drama... groups like CAPS. Who joined the online circus. They publicly went right after the powerful personalities, organized rallies, golf tourneys, etc. I think they had their own Woodstock on the lawn of the new Wesley Chapel town hall. They had assigned leads from every community (Merril, Heintel to name a couple of published leads - if you're familiar with who they are, because you had nothing to do with CAPS *wink). CAPS, similar to the weaker BOE members, had the lone goal of STOPPING THE REDISTRICT. They kept raising the volume (side noise too from personalities like Angry Dad). It was bad enough - then someone came up with the brilliant idea that we should sue ourselves AGAIN... like when we sued ourselves the first time and were still dealing with lawyers on that lawsuit, someone thought it would be a great idea to add another one. You know because the lawyers needed new cars. I mean, there was absolutely ZERO chance that citizens could win a lawsuit against officials they elected, doing exactly what we gave them the power to do... but heck, it was worth a try right?
The net impact of all these factors was the death of any chance of compromise in the redistricting plan. Each contributed to that... nobody was talking about reasonable ways to break the cap and give SOME relief where it was needed. Each of these things shared the blame.
So when you jump on your high horse calling me out, check your revisionist history first. I was on here preaching that we should pull back and make small moves, do the minimum. You can remember that as "telling CAPS to get over it", but you'd be 100% wrong.
Mikey....i got to give it up *applause*
I am just not quoting due to the fact of saving space, but i am responding to your post above....well thought out, lucid, comprehensive argument....Nary a name calling or insult can be found....i am not being condescending, but being serious....good job. Now we are sharing ideas....2 sides of the fence having a conversation in a civil manner....I like this. Lets take each of your points:
Point #1 - Couldn’t agree more....BOE & BOCC basically despised each other. Cant argue that. But i would counter with that is a red herring. That relationship should have absolutely nothing to do with a redistricting plan. Unless you are saying in some way the BOE was trying to tick off the BOCC with a redistricting plan. If that is your point, then that is a despicable act by the BOE. One that cannot be defended.
#2 - again, spot on. At that particular time MRMS had a population issue. If memory serves me correctly we also had an elementary school very close to capping. The BOE used this situation as the world is ending and corrected the situation by using a firehose when a watering can should have been used
#3, right again....we paid for the McK report....i dont believe it was debatable as to what it was for. Dr McK stated it was NOT to be used as a redistricting plan. But that didnt fit the old BOE’s agenda....So lets recap. The BOE used a population report that the person who said it should not be used as a redistricting document. Remind me again, what other documentation or expert opinions or facts did they use................Thats right Mikey, nothing....no traffic studies, no input from anyone....just them, a cocktail napkin and a pencil to redraw the maps (ok, i may be exaggerating a little, but you get the point....lol)
Point #4....i think you are hitting a very valid point here....this is where i have a problem....Very true, there were very strong personalities on both sides of the fence....Some of the BOE members who had that strong personality, i felt were disgusting how the carried themselves and how they addressed citizens....”pole dancing skanks” ring a bell? But, that person OWNED their feelings. However disgusting or contemptible they acted, they didnt try to hide from it. My issue is with the others. The others who would say “i live here, i got your back”, then when the time came to stand up and defy the strong personalities, they lowered their heads like cowards and just went with it. They hung out the people they were supposed to represent out to dry....No defense for that. Again, that is my take on that
#5 - Yes Mikey, It is peoples constitutional right to protest if they dont agree with something. This goes back to my original point of the bad “vibe” i get from your posts. You seem genuinely annoyed that these people organized to make a change....Why does that bother you so much? Was CAPS main goal stopping the redistricting, probably. I wasnt active in their group, despite your tin foil hat claims, so if there are any CAPS members on here, please weigh in. Hypothetically, lets run with your assessment that was their only purpose. Why does that shock you so much? Why does that bother you so much? These people didnt like how something was going to play out so they organized to try and make a change. In this country there is something known as the Constitution. Peaceful protest is one of the cornerstones of that document.
Sorry Mikey, if you are implying because of all the noise these groups were publicizing somehow caused the BOE to dig their heels in, then thats the BOE’s fault. You own words is they dug their heels in. You have to have thicker skin and not rabbit ears if you are going to represent citizens. We have another wonderful thing in this country....Elections....How did they play out Mikey? You seem to enjoy calling out 3 of the BOE members. Let me ask you this, how did they do in their elections or upcoming election? I believe the citizens in their districts have made it clear how they feel
Last edited by Little Town Feel; 03-16-2018 at 10:38 AM..
Oh, now you want to have a nice debate....so go from calling me names and when that dont work, now you want to play nice? Ok, lets play nice, i am up to giving you a second chance. As far as the sympathy, go read my post to Somers....personally any child/family that is upset about this redistricting/realignment i feel bad for, i truly do....Can i ask you a question tho. How much sympathy were you giving to the CAPS/United people that you have such disdain for. Did you feel bad for them or did you tell them to shut it and move on and to get over it (yea, i have read your posts Logical. You arent exactly a bastion of empathy now). I responded to plenty of points where i think this process was way different, with a ton more planning, documentation and tranparency then that cluster of 4 years ago. What did they use as the basis back in 2014............The McKibben report....what else? *crickets*....Thats right Logical, they didnt have ANYTHING else to base their decision on....How about this time Logical? Expert input, community input, traffic studies, surveys, maps, notes, choices....How am i doing Logical? You seeing any difference?
But i am guessing you dont want to hear that. Because i have a differing opinion than you and your little coffee clutch, you dont want to hear what i have to say. You determined that my opinion is different, you want to call me delusional and incapable of having an intelligent conversation....You resorted to name calling and insults....Go read my very first post on here. I asked a question. I asked you and others why you had such disdain for people who essentially were sticking up for their kids 4 yrs ago. You know what, you still wont answer the question
....There ya go Logical, ball is in your court....still want to play nice? Im game if you are
You obviously have a lot of built up anger and resentment that you've been harboring for four years, which reinforces your motives for being here. Perhaps this is therapeutic for you to relieve all that stress. If so, I hope it helps you heal from not being redistricted then and now.
You obviously have a lot of built up anger and resentment that you've been harboring for four years, which reinforces your motives for being here. Perhaps this is therapeutic for you to relieve all that stress. If so, I hope it helps you heal from not being redistricted then and now.
You a jack of all trades, huh Logical....I mean you are one of the so called experts on UC specializing in schools. You claim to know what the BOCC thinks and now you are Dr Phil with your diagnosis of pent up anger and therapeutic stress relief issues....You do windows too and cook dinner?
...
Sorry Mikey, if you are implying because of all the noise these groups were publicizing somehow caused the BOE to dig their heels in, then thats the BOE’s fault. You own words is they dug their heels in. You have to have thicker skin and not rabbit ears if you are going to represent citizens. We have another wonderful thing in this country....Elections....How did they play out Mikey? You seem to enjoy calling out 3 of the BOE members. Let me ask you this, how did they do in their elections or upcoming election? I believe the citizens in their districts have made it clear how they feel
You missed the entire point that these were all contributing factors... and I didn't assign any weight to which contributed more or less. I was saying they all contributed. if you're going to skip that part and sum up like this, I don't know how to help you understand. I even listed the groups LAST.
In some part, what the groups did contributed to the BOE turtling up and, when CAPS sued them, who reasonably would think that would do anything but cause them to go through with it? I mean, come on.
In the end, your reference to elections tells me you don't get it. It is lost on me because I never supported the previous BOE for what they did and you clearly either don't want to understand that or are purposely avoiding it. You seem to be operating under this faulty assumption that people were either for or against the last redistricting and people are crazy to be against this one. Makes no sense to me and I've tried to help you understand. Meh, it is what it is
Elections are funny - how many people voted total for BOE? Just curious, if you know. It ain't hard to rally enough support when so little of the electorate gets out to vote... and the only choices are narcissists with too much time on their hands. Bravo, we traded the old group for the new group. Yay us.
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(yea, i have read your posts Logical. You arent exactly a bastion of empathy now). I responded to plenty of points where i think this process was way different, with a ton more planning, documentation and tranparency then that cluster of 4 years ago. What did they use as the basis back in 2014............The McKibben report....what else? *crickets*....Thats right Logical, they didnt have ANYTHING else to base their decision on....How about this time Logical? Expert input, community input, traffic studies, surveys, maps, notes, choices....How am i doing Logical? You seeing any difference? 
