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Old 08-15-2017, 02:03 PM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,383,447 times
Reputation: 1407

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff of London View Post
The demonstrators, despite their beliefs, have a right to demonstrate. The left wing nutjobs types there were the same nutjob types that riot, cause destruction, and put poor small shop owners out of business, often people that come to the U.S. improve their lives, yet lose everything. Maybe if the left were civilized, they would not experience adverse reactions to their intolerance. Granted, it is likely that the demonstrators that were white supremacists were not there solely to preserve the Robert E. Lee statue but to display their disgust with hateful left wing morons attitudes towards whites, success, cops, the president, and all other things good in society. President Trump has done absolutely nothing but positive actions for all Americans including minorities. He is the best thing that has happened to the U.S. in decades. He has already made the job market and employment rise tremendously. Unfortunately, so many of his haters are those that supported Bernie and didn't want jobs, just free stuff. Things will continue to improve and we will be proud again (including me with my green card) and we are on our way. We need to end the insane behaviors of the counter-culture and we will.
Whoa whoa what a STRONG condemnation! I'm proud of you.

Oh wait, no you qualified it and placed blame on the EVIL lefties that obviously made these mouth breathing racists the jerks that they are. Amazing.

Love the post with no supporting facts btw. Stay on topic or start another thread.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:08 PM
 
391 posts, read 240,786 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essequamvideri View Post
We are going to have to agree to disagree. Comparing the moral compass of Martin Luther King, Jr or the values that many associate with him to the values of white supremacy is simply ridiculous.

False equivalences and trying to "many sides, many sides" this issue only shows a lack of knowledge of history for those reluctant to condemn white supremacists. What good do these traitors offer our country?
I don't agree to anything with you. When you are angry, you say things that make no sense. I don't even wish to read any more of your ridiculousness. You can say whatever you wish, I will likely disagree as I likely have a much wider educational background in history. I can clearly see it. You just spout off and back up nothing. You do this frequently. The only thing I might consider is ignoring you and you should do the same with me.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:28 PM
 
391 posts, read 240,786 times
Reputation: 262
Robert E. Lee and the confederacy were not "traitors." The constitution allowed sovereignty of states. The pre-emption of succession was the decision of Lincoln in an effort to keep the union as one and the tax dollars flowing in from Dixie. Lincoln looked at blacks as inferiors as he mentioned several times, yet he did not support slavery, but admitted that he was O.K. with it if it would hold the nation together.

The south left the union for the same basic reason that that colonial American left Britain, "taxation without representation." Slavery was a very key issue, but not the sympathy portrayed today. As long as the north needed cotton and slave produced products, there was no big deal with slavery. With the industrial revolution and the installation of child labor (mostly impoverished European immigrants) the need changed and but the love for southern tax continued.

Enough of this debate. Sometimes it is as if we are talking to a wall.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Matthews, NC
653 posts, read 514,798 times
Reputation: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff of London View Post
The nutjob in the car wouldn't have done so if the anti-demonstrators hadn't instigated violence and just let the demonstration go peacefully as it should have. When things get out of control like in Charlottesville, horrible things happen. Remember the stupid, unjustified Charlotte riots? It was much more violent and costly, but since it was anti-white and anti-law enforcement, it wasn't as significant.


I'm now officially dropping from reading this thread. My faith and hope on the civility on how this thread started has officially been destroyed.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:44 PM
 
29,696 posts, read 27,123,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff of London View Post
The nutjob in the car wouldn't have done so if the anti-demonstrators hadn't instigated violence and just let the demonstration go peacefully as it should have. When things get out of control like in Charlottesville, horrible things happen. Remember the stupid, unjustified Charlotte riots? It was much more violent and costly, but since it was anti-white and anti-law enforcement, it wasn't as significant. Besides, Charlotte has a mayor that is inept that was in charge.
So no leftwing nut job killed anyone, right?
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:49 PM
 
391 posts, read 240,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDcc123 View Post
I'm now officially dropping from reading this thread. My faith and hope on the civility on how this thread started has officially been destroyed.
Me too.
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:25 PM
NDL NDL started this thread
 
Location: Gaston County
3,126 posts, read 3,610,899 times
Reputation: 2045
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
They participated because they believed freed slaves would have endangered their economic well being. Not all poor whites were farmers or owned land at all. They performed much of the menial labor and would have had to compete with freed slaves for those jobs.

And the South's primary reason for seceding and eventually go to war was about preserving the economic benefits of slavery. You only need to read the Constitution of the Confederate States of America or read the Cornerstone speech to know that. The North didn't go to war to end slavery, they went to war to preserve the Union. Emancipation of the slaves as a motivating factor came well after the war began.
I appreciate your thoughtful post, which is notably devoid of condescension .

From my admittedly shallow understanding of history, I was always under the impression that the War was fought over a number of issues.

There are far too many narrators of history for my liking. Of course, the South's attachment to human slaves is undeniable (and inexcusable). I can't comment too much on this, other than to say that the practice of holding humans as slaves, is deplorable. Thankfully, the disgusting aspects of this practice has remained in human consciousness; may it never happen again.

You mentioned the Constitution of the Confederation States, whose preamble began:

"We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character..."

Surely the emphasis on States rights is one that many of today's historians ignore, as is the matter of the heavy tax burden that the South carried. Both were weighty issues at the time, as much as they hold weight among those who cherish the South's history today.

Many have made the distinction between historical markers, versus monuments, and I now mark the difference between the two.

The main issue that I have, is that many on both the Left and Right, typecast those with whom they have disagreement.

Many on the political Right brush past the issue of slavery (as the practice is deplorable and indefensible), while many on the political Left paint, and accuse, the preservers of history as those who hold values that they simply don't hold.

And while I would never suggest that today's American's compromise with evil for the sake of unity, the coarse nature of today's public discourse is disheartening.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:21 AM
 
391 posts, read 240,786 times
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If the north was so passionate about cruelty to human beings, it would appear that the use of white European women and children in the northern sweat factories during the time of the Civil War period would have been an deplorable to the citizens there. Additionally, those that "fought to free the slaves" i.e. President U.S. Grant, General George Custer, and other northern generals on his staff planned to eradicate American indians on their reservations in an effort to take possession of the mother lode of silver in the Black Hills of South Dakota and avoid interference with future railroad construction westward.

It is so obvious that Americans are oblivious to their own history. Lincoln himself was a racist that publically announced his feelings that blacks were inferior and should not live with whites. He also had plans to continue the process of relocating blacks to Liberia. Additionally, he approved of General Sherman's March Through the South in an effort to kill and starve men, women, children and even slaves in the south. Really? How dumb are college students and high school grads these days. If they had a descent education, they would respect history and make judgements based on actual events and not on what some social reject of a professor preaches in class.

I just don't understand how narrow minded the anti-demonstration losers were in Charlottesville. Although I must admit, I don't believe the white supremacists were there to save the statue. I believe that they were there simply to voice their frustrations with the double race standard that blatantly exists today in America.

My suggestion, tear down the Lincoln Memorial too if we wish to rid ourselves of reminders of the questionable past.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:31 AM
 
29,696 posts, read 27,123,188 times
Reputation: 18232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff of London View Post
Although I must admit, I don't believe the white supremacists were there to save the statue. I believe that they were there simply to voice their frustrations with the double race standard that blatantly exists today in America.
They're the real heroes, right?
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:29 AM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,383,447 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff of London View Post
If the north was so passionate about cruelty to human beings, it would appear that the use of white European women and children in the northern sweat factories during the time of the Civil War period would have been an deplorable to the citizens there. Additionally, those that "fought to free the slaves" i.e. President U.S. Grant, General George Custer, and other northern generals on his staff planned to eradicate American indians on their reservations in an effort to take possession of the mother lode of silver in the Black Hills of South Dakota and avoid interference with future railroad construction westward.

It is so obvious that Americans are oblivious to their own history. Lincoln himself was a racist that publically announced his feelings that blacks were inferior and should not live with whites. He also had plans to continue the process of relocating blacks to Liberia. Additionally, he approved of General Sherman's March Through the South in an effort to kill and starve men, women, children and even slaves in the south. Really? How dumb are college students and high school grads these days. If they had a descent education, they would respect history and make judgements based on actual events and not on what some social reject of a professor preaches in class.

I just don't understand how narrow minded the anti-demonstration losers were in Charlottesville. Although I must admit, I don't believe the white supremacists were there to save the statue. I believe that they were there simply to voice their frustrations with the double race standard that blatantly exists today in America.

My suggestion, tear down the Lincoln Memorial too if we wish to rid ourselves of reminders of the questionable past.
You're missing the entire point due to a lack of knowledge of why the monuments in question are being protested. No one is advocating to tear down every structure associated with anyone that has ever done anything unethically. We are simply protesting monuments EXPLICITLY built in support of white supremacy to whitewash the ills of slavery and build sentimentalism for the south 150 YEARS AFTER the Civil War. It's hilarious that you say you want to preserve history when these monuments were erected specifically to alter the perception of it. Have you done any reading on what the Lost Cause was all about? Have you read any of the dedication speeches for these monuments? What a hypocrite to complain about a lack of education. You haven't done any research or cited any of
your sources!

Additionally, this isn't a north vs south debate. Insecurity and defensiveness inhibit your ability to learn. On top of that your knowledge of Lincoln is obviously clouded by your desire to portray him poorly. He certainly wasn't perfect but in the end was the force behind pushing our country past it's original sin. If you read the link I shared earlier you would begin to appreciate the evolution of his views on race and how connected his social and political growth were.

I would agree that many college campuses are not upholding free speech when they focus on "safe spaces" and exhibit discriminatory behavior toward viewpoints they don't agree with. That isn't the issue here. "Respecting history" would mean acknowledging how vile and shameful the institution of slavery was and condemning the failed effort to succeed from our great nation.

It's a distraction to hear the deflection argument of "well what's next if we tear down these racist monuments?!" Similar to resistance to other social debates (women's suffrage, black emancipation, gay marriage, ending prohibition, interracial marriage) the argument "if we let them do that it will lead to..." pops up time and time again as a fear tactic. It's distracting and irrational. What is so controversial about taking down a monument built specifically to intimidate and champion white supremacy?!! What are you protecting?
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