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Old 03-12-2018, 06:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
Fair enough, but first of all I don’t think the 2011 reval was “botched” as much as people think. I believe it was said that after the reval re-do, the majority of property values were unchanged.

Second of all the reason people said it was “botched” was because they thought the values were too high, so if anything the tax rate should have really dropped even more than it did.
When the General Assembly forces you to hire an independent, private company to redo the entire reval at a cost of $7 million, reduce the original assessments by a total of $1.5 billion, and issue $60 million in refunds, well, thats the textbook definition of botched.

The county did cut the property tax rate over 4.5 cents over 2 fiscal years, which isn't 11%, but the effects of the recession were being felt full force, and even with significant budget and headcount cuts, there wasn't room to cut the rate more.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC1960 View Post
When the General Assembly forces you to hire an independent, private company to redo the entire reval at a cost of $7 million, reduce the original assessments by a total of $1.5 billion, and issue $60 million in refunds, well, thats the textbook definition of botched.

The county did cut the property tax rate over 4.5 cents over 2 fiscal years, which isn't 11%, but the effects of the recession were being felt full force, and even with significant budget and headcount cuts, there wasn't room to cut the rate more.
The General Assembly "forced" them to do it because one of the Senators lives in Cornelius and his neighbor(s) were mad that their taxes went up.

There were definitely some errors in the original revaluation, but apparently a later consultant (who they must have liked because he is being used to help with the 2019 reval) said statistically the county's original numbers were better than Pearson's - Was Mecklenburg County

Edit: However, hopefully the backlash over the 2011 reval does give the county more incentive to lower the tax rate so that overall tax bills don't change much. Also in reading more I guess I was initially thinking the new tax bills would be for 2019, but apparently they will just be coming out in 2019 but will really be for 2020.

Last edited by GoPhils; 03-13-2018 at 05:29 AM..
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,761 posts, read 6,415,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
The General Assembly "forced" them to do it because one of the Senators lives in Cornelius and his neighbor(s) were mad that their taxes went up.

There were definitely some errors in the original revaluation, but apparently a later consultant (who they must have liked because he is being used to help with the 2019 reval) said statistically the county's original numbers were better than Pearson's - Was Mecklenburg County

Edit: However, hopefully the backlash over the 2011 reval does give the county more incentive to lower the tax rate so that overall tax bills don't change much. Also in reading more I guess I was initially thinking the new tax bills would be for 2019, but apparently they will just be coming out in 2019 but will really be for 2020.

One senator forced this through? No chance.

Botched is far too kind of a word to describe what happened. There were loads of people who got absolutely screwed during that reval and were then told by a county commissioner they didn't know what they were talking about when it comes to values. Many were in the real estate business and I'm one of them.

Tripled tax bills were normal for many people. Values that would never be realized, ever, were normal for many people. I provided a few solid examples in earlier threads on the topic. One of those overvalued houses recently sold for half of what the county valued it.

I understand they can't just leave things alone, but it would probably be better if they did. If things are supposed to be revenue-neutral, then why bother? I'm afraid of seeing who are going to be the big winners and big losers this time around. And I sure;y hope they'll be a LOT more forthcoming with information this time around.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:58 PM
 
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Revenue neutral is a term devised by politicians to make you believe despite taxes going up yours will remain relatively flat.
The truth is the county always desires more revenue than the previous year, therefore some people get screwed, but some get a slight break. If you notice county revenues following a re-evaluation year, they always have slightly more surplus than the previous year.

Taxes do not go down, total surpluses always go up. Sure, every now and then they decline and we sure hear about it. Every politician touts the "savings" they enabled for us taxpayers. BUT, look at the long term and show me where taxes trended downward.

Example: the New York State Thruway. It was built back in the 50's and early 60's. It was originally billed as a pay for itself highway. The tolls were to be collected until the original cost was recouped, then the tolls would stop. Still waiting!!!
Revenue flowing into a governmental body never stops, it only increases.
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spankys bbq View Post
One senator forced this through? No chance.
Pretty much.

Bill gives Mecklenburg property owners time to pay back taxes | Charlotte Observer

Gov. McCrory signs reval bill in Cornelius

Quote:
Originally Posted by spankys bbq View Post
One senator forced this through? No chance.
Botched is far too kind of a word to describe what happened. There were loads of people who got absolutely screwed during that reval and were then told by a county commissioner they didn't know what they were talking about when it comes to values. Many were in the real estate business and I'm one of them.

Tripled tax bills were normal for many people. Values that would never be realized, ever, were normal for many people. I provided a few solid examples in earlier threads on the topic. One of those overvalued houses recently sold for half of what the county valued it.

I understand they can't just leave things alone, but it would probably be better if they did. If things are supposed to be revenue-neutral, then why bother? I'm afraid of seeing who are going to be the big winners and big losers this time around. And I sure;y hope they'll be a LOT more forthcoming with information this time around.
There were definitely mistakes in certain neighborhoods, but it seems like overall it actually wasn't as bad as first thought. I see a thread where you mention several homes that were too high, but they were all on the same street, so if they messed up that neighborhood unfortunately they were probably all messed up. If we're going by personal anecdotes, Pearson's value on my former home was much worse than the original revaluation (both of which I successfully appealed). For most other homes I looked at Pearson's value was the same for 2011-2014 but Pearson for some unknown reason raised mine by $80K from 2013-2014. I know in previous articles it was constantly mentioned that there were over 50,000 appeals from the first revaluation. Yet even after the Pearson reviews, according to the link I posted there were still 24,000 appeals, which IMO isn't any better (possibly even worse).
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:32 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,866 posts, read 1,989,625 times
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I do empathize with the homeowners who bought a simple home at a time when prices were much cheaper than they are now over-stretched with their budgets, which are often pretty modest.

I feel much less empathy for the people complaining about this who bought with the intention of someday flipping the house for a profit in a gentrifying neighborhood, perhaps scooping a home up on the cheap during a brief stint of lowered home prices during the Great Recession. And they are poised to make quite a profit on the home while new homeowners are struggling to afford buying...or increasingly... renting homes in areas that used to be considered more modest and affordable.

They need to be careful what they wish for, as they could be owning a home in an area with a sideways or declining housing market. And if you look at property tax rates in the state, the areas with the highest rates are frequently in areas that are struggling the most economically, such as Scotland County in the Sandhills along the SC border.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:22 PM
 
6,800 posts, read 4,386,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getatag View Post
Taxes do not go down, total surpluses always go up. Sure, every now and then they decline and we sure hear about it. Every politician touts the "savings" they enabled for us taxpayers. BUT, look at the long term and show me where taxes trended downward.
Umm, lots of places. New Hanover County's tax rate was 61 cents in 2000; today its 50 cents. In 2005, Chapel Hill's rate was 57.5 cents, today its 50.8 cents. There are many, many other examples. In fact, property tax tax rates were much higher decades ago.

Same is true of federal income taxes...top marginal rates have gone from 80% to 40% in the past 30 years.
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Old 03-20-2018, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,761 posts, read 6,415,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
Pretty much.

Bill gives Mecklenburg property owners time to pay back taxes | Charlotte Observer

Gov. McCrory signs reval bill in Cornelius



There were definitely mistakes in certain neighborhoods, but it seems like overall it actually wasn't as bad as first thought. I see a thread where you mention several homes that were too high, but they were all on the same street, so if they messed up that neighborhood unfortunately they were probably all messed up. If we're going by personal anecdotes, Pearson's value on my former home was much worse than the original revaluation (both of which I successfully appealed). For most other homes I looked at Pearson's value was the same for 2011-2014 but Pearson for some unknown reason raised mine by $80K from 2013-2014. I know in previous articles it was constantly mentioned that there were over 50,000 appeals from the first revaluation. Yet even after the Pearson reviews, according to the link I posted there were still 24,000 appeals, which IMO isn't any better (possibly even worse).


I believe you know better than to think one state senator or rep forced a bill through. Perhaps your choice of words is wrong and it's just an honest mistake.

I'm glad you went and found the thread I participated in regarding the reval. The parcels I hit on were the worst of the bunch, but by no means the only ones that were way overvalued.

Even though the houses on that one street were messed up, they were messed up in a way that makes absolutely no sense if you know these properties. There appeared to be no rhyme or reason to the values and they would never (at that time) be realistic for a fair market sale. Several years have gone by and the sales prices have slowly increased, but not by a whole lot.

My problem with the upcoming reval is I fear the same lack of transparency and the same attitude from those who are "in charge." It took a LOT of work to get that re-reval to happen. It wasn't just a few people crying to the media or their local state rep. It was an uphill battle that could have just as easily went the other way. I have zero trust in the tax assessor's office and I expect similar problems this go-round.

When you have to explain, and prove, to the tax assessor every year that you no longer own a piece of property, but still receive a tax bill for it, things aren't working as they should. For over 5 years I've had to go round and round with them about numerous pieces of personal property. If they can't get the little stuff correct, why would I trust them to get the big stuff right?
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Old 03-21-2018, 05:50 AM
 
5,872 posts, read 7,712,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spankys bbq View Post
I believe you know better than to think one state senator or rep forced a bill through. Perhaps your choice of words is wrong and it's just an honest mistake.

I'm glad you went and found the thread I participated in regarding the reval. The parcels I hit on were the worst of the bunch, but by no means the only ones that were way overvalued.

Even though the houses on that one street were messed up, they were messed up in a way that makes absolutely no sense if you know these properties. There appeared to be no rhyme or reason to the values and they would never (at that time) be realistic for a fair market sale. Several years have gone by and the sales prices have slowly increased, but not by a whole lot.

My problem with the upcoming reval is I fear the same lack of transparency and the same attitude from those who are "in charge." It took a LOT of work to get that re-reval to happen. It wasn't just a few people crying to the media or their local state rep. It was an uphill battle that could have just as easily went the other way. I have zero trust in the tax assessor's office and I expect similar problems this go-round.

When you have to explain, and prove, to the tax assessor every year that you no longer own a piece of property, but still receive a tax bill for it, things aren't working as they should. For over 5 years I've had to go round and round with them about numerous pieces of personal property. If they can't get the little stuff correct, why would I trust them to get the big stuff right?
I’m not saying he was the only one to work on the bill, but I think it’s safe to say that the bill wouldn’t have happened without him (Tarte).

Honestly, maybe if more people worked on the bill it wouldn’t have tried to force people to pay back taxes on houses they didn’t even own - Tarte

In fact Tarte even complains about how his own bill was unfair - Mecklenburg Homeowners Faced With New Back Taxes After Reval Redo | WFAE

To be frank I’m not terribly concerned about any lack of transparency this time around. Sure that may occur but the real concern is that if the tax rate stays the same or even drops just a little, even accurate assessments are going to result in significantly higher tax bills for the majority of the county. There’s not necessarily anything wrong with that since that’s what the homes are worth, but I think the talk of “revenue-neutral” has people thinking that that’s not supposed to happen. But again, I hope I am wrong...
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:15 PM
 
1,455 posts, read 998,288 times
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Mecklenburg County seeks first tax hike in five years | Charlotte Observer

The proposed budget has been announced. Mecklenburg County is proposing a 3/4 of a penny increase to the tax rate to increase the county budget by $25 million. In combination with Charlotte city manager 1 penny increase proposal, a home with a taxable value of $250,000 in Charlotte city limits would see their tax bill increase by $44 a year.

Please note these tax rates above are based on the current appraisal of homes and tax bills due by Jan 1, 2019. By Jan 1, 2019 residents will receive notice of their home's new appraised value to be used for the 2020 budget. The city and county will then determine new tax rates and budgets for 2020 in the spring/summer of 2019 based on the new property evaluations to be applicable to the tax bills due Jan 1, 2020.

Last edited by CLT4; 05-22-2018 at 01:27 PM..
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