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Old 04-28-2018, 12:00 PM
 
5,896 posts, read 7,750,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getatag View Post
Okay, let's see if I have this correctly deciphered, you are saying it's all chance, luck if you will, that we are born smart, dumb, or somewhere in between; rich, poor, or somewhere in between and we have no way to adjust that luck/chance factor, it's all kismet.
Of course this begs the question. Why would you care which school/job/community you end up in if it's all luck/chance?
BUT, it only works with rich or middle class, and it only works with those who secured great jobs and are overly productive members of society. That theory stops once you pass WHAT outlier? WHAT position in life? WHAT street address?
I think youíre misinterpreting the post. Itís luck/chance as far as what type of situation the kids are born into. Itís not necessarily chance for the parents, but they could have certainly had a leg up based on their own upbringing.

I think I might agree with some of the previous comments that maybe whatever money that is available should not necessarily be poured into the school itself, because thatís not really the issue. The issue is the environment that the kids are growing up in is much different between the haves and have nots. Maybe there could be daycare options for infant/young siblings of students, or some sort of work-study program so students can help out with bills at home, or transportation help for parents/guardians to sporting/after-school events. I used to officiate a sport in the area, I once officiated a contest between a higher income school and one of the lower-income schools...the higher income schoolís stands were pretty full, but there wasnít a single parent of the other school in attendance. I donít know how one could argue that kids at both of those schools have equal chances to succeed.

I donít know, just brainstorming here...
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:13 PM
 
520 posts, read 302,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
I think youíre misinterpreting the post. Itís luck/chance as far as what type of situation the kids are born into. Itís not necessarily chance for the parents, but they could have certainly had a leg up based on their own upbringing.

I think I might agree with some of the previous comments that maybe whatever money that is available should not necessarily be poured into the school itself, because thatís not really the issue. The issue is the environment that the kids are growing up in is much different between the haves and have nots. Maybe there could be daycare options for infant/young siblings of students, or some sort of work-study program so students can help out with bills at home, or transportation help for parents/guardians to sporting/after-school events. I used to officiate a sport in the area, I once officiated a contest between a higher income school and one of the lower-income schools...the higher income schoolís stands were pretty full, but there wasnít a single parent of the other school in attendance. I donít know how one could argue that kids at both of those schools have equal chances to succeed.

I donít know, just brainstorming here...
We have a "progressive" tendency in our society to punish hard work and success (increasing taxes) and rewarding the opposite - this encourages continuation for the people that get by while governments provides just enough to create dependency for voting time.
A vicious cycle which prevents us from real progress and better living conditions prevalent in big large suburban centers.
"Temporary" freebies become entitlements and dependency which is programed to translate into more votes for corrupt politicians.

Family life is at the core for a kid success in life (some exceptions), couple of hours a day at a "high end" school will not replace the missing home life guidance by parental example.
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Old 04-28-2018, 05:12 PM
 
5,896 posts, read 7,750,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 28079 View Post
We have a "progressive" tendency in our society to punish hard work and success (increasing taxes) and rewarding the opposite - this encourages continuation for the people that get by while governments provides just enough to create dependency for voting time.
A vicious cycle which prevents us from real progress and better living conditions prevalent in big large suburban centers.
"Temporary" freebies become entitlements and dependency which is programed to translate into more votes for corrupt politicians.

Family life is at the core for a kid success in life (some exceptions), couple of hours a day at a "high end" school will not replace the missing home life guidance by parental example.
I wouldnít really consider what I suggested to be freebies, if thatís what youíre getting at. Thatíd be more like giving the family a free house in the ďhigh endĒ school zone or something.
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Old 04-28-2018, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Chapelboro
10,695 posts, read 11,322,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
Itís luck/chance as far as what type of situation the kids are born into. Itís not necessarily chance for the parents, but they could have certainly had a leg up based on their own upbringing.
Yes, that's what I meant. It's not the kids' fault. They didn't ask to be born into poverty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 28079 View Post
Family life is at the core for a kid success in life (some exceptions), couple of hours a day at a "high end" school will not replace the missing home life guidance by parental example.
I don't disagree with that. And I think that most folks who advocate zoning schools based on SES diversity wouldn't disagree with it either. But that brings up the question, if a couple of hours a day at a "high end" school won't replace what's missing in their home life, should we write those kids off completely? Are they just out of luck because their parents can't provide the home life they need? Or is there something that we could do that might help even if it won't replace parents who care and have more time and resources to devote to their kids?

Public schools are where we can reach kids whose home life is less than great. We can feed them breakfast and lunch when they may not get supper at home. We can provide a caring guidance and give them the best opportunities for success so that they may be able to pull themselves and subsequently their own kids out of the cycle of poverty one day. I'm all for doing what we can to make that happen. I think it's the right thing to do as a caring human being and I think it's the best thing to do for society so that kids who have a rocky start may grow up to be fully functioning members of society.
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Old 04-29-2018, 08:27 PM
NDL
 
Location: Gaston County
3,189 posts, read 3,651,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eristic1 View Post
Better question: What's the problem? There is no red-lining anymore. People are free to live where they like. If a black family wants to move next to a white family then great, they have the freedom to do so.
You're making a completely different distinction than the one I made; I am disheartened by/at/with the polarization taking place within society - be it within the ethnic, religious, or political realm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eristic1 View Post
Why do you feel the need to concern yourself with what other people are doing?
I don't mean to make this personal, but do apply this logic in other spheres of life? I highly doubt it. Do you not take heed to what others are doing within political or economic spheres within society? Do the actions of others not have some impact on your well being?

Of course they do.

Unless you're a self sustaining person who's totally disengaged with society, there comes a point at which the well being of others becomes a matter of self interest.

I don't care what my neighbors do, but what if a group of people assumed a house, and it becomes inhabited by an armed gang of punks. At what point does the condition of those around me affect my interests?

What about fellow citizens who drink in excess and drive? What about those persons who black out while driving? Could not their condition affect my personal well being?

There's a line; a point at which actions within society trickle down and affect every human being...this is not debatable. Therefore, as to your question about whether or not I should have concern about what others are doing in society? Yes, and so should you.

As to racial disharmony, the decline of race relations is grievous to me. I believe that our current condition - being a Nation of splinter groups - is counter productive. I believe our former President said it best:

"The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities." - Teddy Roosevelt
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Old 04-29-2018, 08:40 PM
NDL
 
Location: Gaston County
3,189 posts, read 3,651,341 times
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I still don't see how Charlotte's schools are as segregated as some would have us believe.

While there are areas of segregation within Charlotte's schools, there are notable communities of Asian's within Charlotte, be they Chinese, Indian, or Vietnamese. And close to Matthew's borders, I am told that there is a notable Lebanese community.
And while there are areas of the City that are predominantly Latino, there are also Latino's living across south Charlotte, in communities where white students are the majority.

All of these folks are fully integrated within Charmeck's system.

So yes, while there are areas within Charlotte that are segregated, this can be said of most any City. In the meantime, not all parts of Charlotte are segregated. To look at this solely as a Black/White paradigm, is to ignore the past twenty years of immigration patterns that took place all across Charlotte.
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Old 04-29-2018, 08:41 PM
 
318 posts, read 178,551 times
Reputation: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
You're making a completely different distinction than the one I made; I am disheartened by/at/with the polarization taking place within society - be it within the ethnic, religious, or political realm.
I think everyone is upset when the world is polarized. But insisting that mixing the races better is the solution is ridiculous. Instead, I would advocate letting people just live their life, making decisions for their own family and strike down any governmental barriers to doing just that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
I don't mean to make this personal, but do apply this logic in other spheres of life? I highly doubt it. Do you not take heed to what others are doing within political or economic spheres within society? Do the actions of others not have some impact on your well being?
Of course the actions of others have an impact on me. But, in general, I have no right to control their actions, I just have to roll with it.

However, this is a forum where we can discuss ideas without demanding that others buy in. Ideas should rest on merit, not emotion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
Unless you're a self sustaining person who's totally disengaged with society, there comes a point at which the well being of others becomes a matter of self interest.

I don't care what my neighbors do, but what if a group of people assumed a house, and it becomes inhabited by an armed gang of punks. At what point does the condition of those around me affect my interests?

What about fellow citizens who drink in excess and drive? What about those persons who black out while driving? Could not their condition affect my personal well being?

There's a line; a point at which actions within society trickle down and affect every human being...this is not debatable. Therefore, as to your question about whether or not I should have concern about what others are doing in society? Yes, and so should you.

As to racial disharmony, the decline of race relations is grievous to me. I believe that our current condition - being a Nation of splinter groups - is counter productive. I believe our former President said it best:

"The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities." - Teddy Roosevelt
As usual, most people will agree that disharmony of any kind of a net-negative for everyone. But everyone has a different idea on how to fix it.

If people shut up about race this and race that 99% of the problems go away. The vast majority of people couldn't care less what race someone is.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:41 PM
NDL
 
Location: Gaston County
3,189 posts, read 3,651,341 times
Reputation: 2085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eristic1 View Post
I think everyone is upset when the world is polarized. But insisting that mixing the races better is the solution is ridiculous.
There are many ways that this can be taken (given the context of our conversation), therefore I will not comment unless you explain further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eristic1 View Post
Of course the actions of others have an impact on me. But, in general, I have no right to control their actions, I just have to roll with it.
To what extent are you not willing to "control another's actions?"

That's a blanket statement. In reality, a person can want for so little government intervention that criminals run loose; pandemonium wreaks havoc on our roads, etc.

I very much doubt that you would want the situation that I described, so the question isn't "do you want government involvement," but "how much government involvement do you want?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eristic1 View Post
However, this is a forum where we can discuss ideas without demanding that others buy in. Ideas should rest on merit, not emotion..
There's nothing emotional about what we've discussed. First and foremost, every citizen is entitled to equal treatment under the law, and there's no way to enforce this principle without some type of mechanism.

Moreover, unless you live in a rural area and are self sustaining, there's a reality that cannot be avoided: when segments of society become disenfranchised, society is impacted in different ways. This is not an emotional argument; it's reality. Therefore, because we're a society that values the individual, and because our intention is to have justice applied equally, and because we're a society that seeks to mitigate negative behavior, there needs to be a mechanism in place to achieve these goals.

None of what I said is emotional in nature. I don't care what segment of society you're talking about; every segment has a tipping point.

I remember when the cost of diesel fuel ran high and truckers protested, which caused temporary issues in the supply chain.

Every segment has it's tipping point. We might not wish for it to be so, but it's a reality that cannot be ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eristic1 View Post
The vast majority of people couldn't care less what race someone is.
This I would agree with.
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