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(Not that you would necessarily have the answer ) What if the toll lanes operate at speeds below 45mph? What if traffic is averaging 25mph...does that mean that the toll lanes become free?
Then the toll rate rises until enough people are discouraged from using it so that average speed rises back to at least 45 mph.
In Atlanta on I-85 each weekday morning, the price rises to about $14 per one-way trip to dissuade people from using the HOT lane.
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McCrory's greatest contribution to NC was the reformulation of highway funding allocations....
Except for the I-77 toll project which I can't believe hasn't yet exited from the foreign-funded contract.
There is a chance that it could happen down the road.
I-77, 1st or 2nd most travelled freeway in NC deserves more general lanes paid for by the state, even with the Charlotte region getting the lion's-share of funding & new construction during the last 10 years.
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I don't think the statement about 50% of funding coming from the general fund is true.
It may be true regarding the federal part, but I'm confident that the State's general fund isn't supplying $2 billion+ every year to NCDOT's operating budget.
I don't think NC's high state gas tax provides only half of the state's contribution to the yearly $6 billion spent on roads, and I think that the raiding of the general fund has been curtailed some at least.
While the previous Demo-leaning legislatures could have changed the highway funding formula's misappropriations, it wasn't like that was an intentional act by them either.
Raiding the general fund during any extreme recession and budget crisis is preferable to asking taxpayers to step in and give more in taxes..
But it's not right to do that under normal circumstances, however it's an often-used way to cover state expenses under the radar without media coverage.
Georgia recently stopped diverting 25% of gas tax revenue into its general fund that was conveniently allowing other shortfalls to not be addressed full on.
My experience driving the NJ turnpike for several years says, hell no it doesn't guarantee that. When people need to commute or travel, they travel. Or they move to another state. I hear Oregon is nice.
I do miss the Parkway; six travel lanes in each direction, the length of much of the Parkway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLT4
The lane operator is supposed to control congestion via price. As the lanes get more volume, the prices increase throughout the day and they watch speed via sensors to know if pricing should be increased or decreased. People heading north at 5PM are going to typically pay a lot more than people heading north at 6:30PM for example, should they chose the express lane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
Then the toll rate rises until enough people are discouraged from using it so that average speed rises back to at least 45 mph.
In Atlanta on I-85 each weekday morning, the price rises to about $14 per one-way trip to dissuade people from using the HOT lane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils
Technically, to NDL's question, if I'm reading the documents correctly (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/I-77E...ssLanesFAQ.pdf), if there is a lot of traffic in the toll lanes then the tolls will actually INCREASE, so that less people take them. It seems that the biggest determinant on pricing is the amount of traffic in the toll lanes, but I'm not sure if they will also take into account how that compares to the traffic in the free lanes. I know on some of the Express Lanes in other states if there is no traffic in the free lanes than the Express Lanes are only like 30 cents.
Thank you all, for clearing this up for me (no pun intended ).
With all of the concentrated wealth in the Lake Norman area, the toll lanes will likely render the proposed Red Line as an unattractive alternative for wealthy residents. In NY, the train is used by wealthy individuals because of it's efficiency, as the train has no alternative mode of transportation challenging it's operation. In NC, toll lanes will challenge mass transit as a mode of transportation, provided that toll lane users will achieve a certain travel speed. Not good news for the proposed Red Line.
With all of the concentrated wealth in the Lake Norman area, the toll lanes will likely render the proposed Red Line as an unattractive alternative for wealthy residents. In NY, the train is used by wealthy individuals because of it's efficiency, as the train has no alternative mode of transportation challenging it's operation. In NC, toll lanes will challenge mass transit as a mode of transportation, provided that toll lane users will achieve a certain travel speed. Not good news for the proposed Red Line.
Unless there is some game-playing going on behind the scenes, the Red Line should (thankfully) never come to fruition.
Norfolk Southern has no interest in the Charlotte Choo-Choo using their rails and the I believe the cost and practicality of building a parallel set of rails will be beyond feasible.
Unless there is some game-playing going on behind the scenes, the Red Line should (thankfully) never come to fruition.
Norfolk Southern has no interest in the Charlotte Choo-Choo using their rails and the I believe the cost and practicality of building a parallel set of rails will be beyond feasible.
If Charlotte were serious about mass transit and the red line they would have built the tracks into the center of the new construction. It would be similar to how the MARTA train operates in Atlanta towards Alpharetta. But without that in place as mentioned above it probably won't happen.
I'd love to see Huntersville, Cornelius and Mooresville continue the fight even after the toll road is built. I think the best option is to station police along the route and consistently pull drivers for any violation (tags, lights, 1 mph over the speed limit). Since there's no easy way to exit, they could effectively halt traffic (did I mention DUI checkpoints from 7-9AM?) and bankrupt CINTAS within a couple years.
Its also critical that these towns continue to swing the gubernatorial election away from the party that fails to stop this project. A single issue electorate that's large and dedicated enough to swing elections (which they proved once already) is going to eventually get its way in the long run.
The other problem is that there is no true alternative. The road network, aside from Statesville and Old Statesville Rd (both of which are 2 lanes and have frequent stops), around I-77 is a meandering cluster of random, unconnected, 2 lane roads.
We need a 6 lane, 45mph+, local travel road paralleling I-77 on each side, wherever possible. People need a way to get 3-5 miles north-south all along the stretch and the main way to do it right now is I-77. It screws up everything.
Try to get from the hospital on Exit 23 to Langtree without using I-77 and you'll see what I mean.
Nobody wants to pay to commute. This isn't New Jersey. I paid 1000s on tolls but never saw it as something to improve traffic, it's more like a way to ticket people and expand the ezpass program "join for 100 annual fee and save on tolls".
Not to turn this into another Charlotte vs. Raleigh thing, but it could be worse, at least the Charlotte beltway/loop is complete and free (I know they might add HOT lanes in the future). While 1/3 of the Raleigh beltway/loop isn't even done yet and 2/3 of the entire beltway will be tolled, with no free lane options whatsoever.
Are the coming tolls going to help traffic? Is the highway too expensive to maintain? Is there a date these tolls will happily go away once they serve their purpose?
This video explains a lot of your questions/issues:
If that's how exiting will work (around 3:45 in the video), that actually doesn't seem too bad. I think that was my biggest concern.
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) What if the toll lanes operate at speeds below 45mph? What if traffic is averaging 25mph...does that mean that the toll lanes become free?
