Anyone NOT like Charlotte?

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

Greg, you're absolutely right. I totally forgot about Portland's "Great Wall"- they had the fore site to implement controls back in the late 70s. I've heard back and forth on it, but I think overall it's been beneficial and hasn't had a negative economic impact.

The other issue that you've touched on is the root cause. If you want to control growth, it has to start with the issuing of building permits. However the problem is a council rep. is buddies with a local land owner or farmer who wants to sell 20+ acres for $100K/acre. The town holds a meeting, the local say things like "not over my dead body...", the council votes to approve a big walmart or sub-div anyway. Happens all the time and I believe that's exactly how the new Target here in Wesley Chapel "came to pass...".

Anyway I haven't looked at Portland (from a city planning perspective) in quite some time so I'll take a peak and see what their up to.

Thanks for a well thought-out response.

Miker, I am familar with this "green belt" around Portland - it's main purpose was of course to prevent/stop suburban sprawl. Charlotte would be so wise to implement something similar. Though it would have been better to do it 15 years ago, it is still not too late. I myself am so sad at what I see happening to Charlotte.

[SunnyKayak]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Well, it's just one example, but I think Portland, Oregon would be a good example. Although it's not a "Southern" or even East Coast city for that matter.

Portland has very strict codes as to what sized business can be built where, etc. Their greenbelt around the city is kind of a barrier as to what sized/density projects can be built inside the city, and what has to be built outside the city. They even did something that I know would cause leaders in Charlotte or Atlanta to poop bricks - they actually tore down a section of highway in their downtown area to build... a PARK! (a sin here that would condemn your soul to the pits of urban sprawl hell). They also have an extremely popular and always expanding light rail system (MAX), and homes/businesses along that line sell for top dollar, while people in many of their suburban areas are literally begging for it to come out their way.

So while it's just one city - Portland does show that certain types of control CAN be done. I think the problem many of OUR cities have over on this side (Charlotte, Atlanta, etc) is that we have too many "old school" leaders who are stubborn, and frankly, maybe a little inflated mentally as to their importance, without looking at other areas that have done better as examples of what they should do. Maybe all we need to do is change our voting habits and look for younger, progressive city council and planning leaders and stop voting for our dad's best friend he went to school with Billy Bubba Junior Bob. Time for the 21st century!

This so called green city of portland has same urban issues as stated above
Traffic congestion and air pollution and restrict residents on their right to live where they want to live and cause house prices to be unmangeable for the average home buyer growth boundaries would make even these postage size lots seem like corn fields Portland for the People, Not the Planners
Charlotte has recreation within the city where portland you have to out of the city just like Charlotte they are using tax dollars to build private sector structures 49 ways to screw up Portland (Jack Bog's Blog)

Portland is far from a model city just another city like any other urban city in US as stated by Miker that have same issues.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by SunnyKayak

Traffic congestion and air pollution and restrict residents on their right to live where they want to live and cause house prices to be unmangeable for the average home buyer.

I'm not aware that people in Portland are told where they can or cannot live. They have housing in both the inner city, suburban areas, and xurbs.

As far as home prices - the hike in home prices have been a result of the huge number of people from California who have migrated to the Pacific Northwest over the years. People in L.A. and San Fran can sell their tiny homes for $650,000+, then move up to Portland and buy twice the house for half as much. Over time people saw this trend and hiked up home prices to make a profit from the migrating people. It screwed up the natives to that area, as their incomes didn't go up - it made $$ for the home sellers, however. THAT is the reason for the home prices, not a greenbelt or zoning restrictions.

For the record, if you spend some time in the Atlanta room, you'll see a very large increase in the number of posts like, "Moving from NYC to Atlanta", and "Moving from L.A. to Atlanta", etc. This started about 1.5 years ago, and is one of the reason that right now there are no less than a dozen high-rise condo developments being built at this very moment in Atlanta - all with 1BR/1BA units that START at $189,000 going up to $450,000 for a 1BR in Trump's new condo tower about to begin construction. The transplants are starting to do here now, what they did in Portland years ago... they're coming from much higher priced areas and those selling here know this and wanna make a buck, so the home prices in Atlanta are steadily rising... and rising...

Mark my word - it'll happen in Charlotte 5-8 years from now when in your room you'll start to see the, "Moving from Atlanta to Charlotte" threads as people here, move there, to get cheaper homes - then YOUR prices will rise.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

The other issue that you've touched on is the root cause. If you want to control growth, it has to start with the issuing of building permits. However the problem is a council rep. is buddies with a local land owner or farmer who wants to sell 20+ acres for $100K/acre. The town holds a meeting, the local say things like "not over my dead body...", the council votes to approve a big walmart or sub-div anyway. Happens all the time and I believe that's exactly how the new Target here in Wesley Chapel "came to pass...".
.

While this happens everywhere, I think the south is possibly the worst region for this.

Councilman Bubba Bob has a brother-in-law who is a developer. Poof - land deals. Junior Bob is on a board and has a son/friend/fishing buddy/whatever that wants to build yet another shopping center next to 10 more just like it in a congested part of town - poof, he gets a permit. There is so much back patting going on down here I'm amazed they haven't done a redneck version of Brokeback Mountain.

It of course starts with how people vote, however. Well-groomed Bubba Bob gets up on TV in front of all with his toothy grin wife and one little girl and one little boy, the fluffy dog, and a church in the background during the commercial. How sweet. He gets the votes. He's also probably one of the most crooked as far as giving "favors" to his buddies and not giving a hoot at all about the local congestion, the environment, etc. Really - they do not care. They serve their term (or sometimes try for two if they're greedy), then they move far out into the burbs so their "favors" don't directly effect them, or, they leave the city area altogether leaving the rest of us to suffer for their "favors". Happens every day. It's happening right now.

Charlotte - time to check in on your Bubba Bobs.