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Old 04-22-2008, 09:56 PM
 
620 posts, read 1,921,709 times
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Well I guess it doesn't make me uncomfortable because I don't know that these random people have one, but if there was a law that allowed them at school, I would know that the people around me in my class probably have one. Listen, like I said I see both sides of the issue. If they are going to allow this to happen, then they better have stricter gun laws (as in, who can own and carry a gun) because it is way too easy right now for someone to buy a gun and kill people. I just want to go and get an education and not have to worry about who has a gun and who shouldn't have a gun and if I am going to get shot and killed today. Should guns be allowed at work too just in case someone decides to go on a killing spree? Do we really need to live our lives carrying weapons around "just in case"? Just imagine the tension in the classroom (who has a gun, who shouldn't have a gun, what if somebody snaps, what if one accidently goes off, etc). It is unfortunate that events like school shootings happen, but I don't see how more guns would be the solution (besides, they usually kill themselves afterwards so I don't think they care whether their fellow classmates have a gun or not - either way they are going to die). Even if it were to stop these people, they will find another way to kill. They will make explosives or they will run people over with a car (like the guy at Chapel Hill) or whatever their sick minds can think of. When there is a will there is a way.

The problem goes beyond guns (gun laws/gun violence), such as gaps in the U.S. system for treating mental health issues, the perpetrator's state of mind, the responsibility of college administrations, privacy laws, etc. There are a lot of other things we can do to stop these types of events from occuring.

Last edited by nyxmike; 04-22-2008 at 10:12 PM..
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:28 PM
 
11,836 posts, read 25,487,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
Well I guess it doesn't make me uncomfortable because I don't know that these random people have one, but if there was a law that allowed them at school, I would know that the people around me in my class probably have one.
What difference would that make?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
Listen, like I said I see both sides of the issue. If they are going to allow this to happen, then they better have stricter gun laws (as in, who can own and carry a gun) because it is way too easy right now for someone to buy a gun and kill people.
Actually the laws controlling sale of a gun are strict enough already. It is not easy to buy a gun legally, however it is very easy to obtain a gun illegally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
I just want to go and get an education and not have to worry about who has a gun and who shouldn't have a gun and if I am going to get shot and killed today.
Then don't think about it. You can just as easily be killed in a car wreck or a home invasion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
Should guns be allowed at work too just in case someone decides to go on a killing spree?
Yes. Those people that want to protect themselves should be able to do so. More people die when responsible citizens aren't allowed to protect themselves & others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
Do we really need to live our lives carrying weapons around "just in case"?
You do not need to arm yourself. You can hope that the police show up in time to save your life. But if you decide to go this route I suggest that you shed yourself of the victim mindset & learn how to defend yourself & be aware of your surroundings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
Just imagine the tension in the classroom (who has a gun, who shouldn't have a gun, what if somebody snaps, what if one accidently goes off, etc).
CCW holders don't announce that they are carrying a gun. That defeats the entire purpose of carrying a concealed weapon. You may be attending a class that has a police officer as a student. You can be sure that officer will be armed no matter if he is on duty or off duty. If someone snaps wouldn't you like to be able to know that you tried to defend your life & the lives of your classmates & teachers? Or would you rather be mown down & wish that you could've made a difference? It sounds harsh & the reality of confronting a deranged psychopath isn't everyone's cup of tea. But to be frank I'm going to be one of those people that would try to stop that person. It may be that the effort is foolish but if I didn't make that effort & others died because I didn't, I would find it very difficult to look at myself in the mirror.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
It is unfortunate that events like school shootings happen, but I don't see how more guns would be the solution (besides, they usually kill themselves afterwards so I don't think they care whether their fellow classmates have a gun or not - either way they are going to die).
The addition of a single gun in the hands of a law abiding responsible citizen could make the difference between the girl next to you getting shot & the muzzle of the killer's pistol staring you in the eyes. You see a blank look in his eyes & watch his finger tighten on the trigger. You close your eyes, expecting your life to end & he slumps dead at your feet. The girl with the glasses & the ponytail shot & killed him. So would you be more at ease if you had been shot & killed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
Even if it were to stop these people, they will find another way to kill.
That may very well be true, but they were not allowed the chance to do so today & you are alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
They will make explosives or they will run people over with a car (like the guy at Chapel Hill) or whatever their sick minds can think of. When there is a will there is a way.
Then you had better hope that you either wake up, be aware & decide how you plan to stay alive or lock yourself in a bunker & never come out. Life isn't just about puppies & butterflies & sunny days, its also about cold harsh reality. You can choose to be a victim or you can take responsibility for your life & live it as best you can.

Last edited by Barkingowl; 04-22-2008 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:37 PM
 
11,836 posts, read 25,487,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
There are a lot of other things we can do to stop these types of events from occuring.
You may very well be correct, but making schools gun free zones is just telling someone who wants to take innocent lives that this is the place to do so. And, they take advantage of the engraved invitation that the school has given to them.

I wish we could go back in time to when I was in college & none of this was going on. I never wondered if I was going to get shot. College is about getting an education, making new friends, partying & waking up hungover, but hopefully not in the bushes.

The only difference this term is that you are beginning a new class. Its called Situational Awareness. Its not an elective course its a requirement for every major. Learn how to be aware of your surroundings. Learn to defend yourself. Be prepared to come to the aid & defense of others. If you can't defend yourself then strengthen your body to run & evade.
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,686,176 times
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Wow, Barking. I give you 1000s of kudos for your previous 2 posts. Very logical rebuttal with practical examples. Great job and great advice!!! I have nothing more to add as you said it all.
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:03 PM
 
620 posts, read 1,921,709 times
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I just want to add that I DON'T go to school worrying about whether I am going to get shot and killed at school or get in a car wreck. You obviously didn't understand what I was saying, nevermind. No, it is not everyones cup of tea but it is also very easy for people to say what they would do until they are confronted with the situation. Have you ever been in a situation like that? I haven't and I have no idea what I would do. All I know is that I am not going to go buy a gun and learn how to use it just because I might be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I just refuse to live my life like that, but hey, if someone else feels differently and saves my life, then I will certainly thank you forever. It is just sad that we even have to debate about this since events like this do occur. Personally, I think we are over reacting and there are other ways to combat this problem, and that is all I have to say. I'm done with this thread.

Last edited by nyxmike; 04-22-2008 at 11:12 PM..
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Old 04-23-2008, 04:08 AM
 
160 posts, read 358,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_guy View Post
I encourage you to educate yourself on the facts and cease relying on your feelings--it might get you killed.

Please no more politics as I requested in the OP.
everyone who disagrees with you doesn't need to be educated. And as far as I can tell, there was no politics in my post.

How many people in the last 12 months have died from on campus shootings from crazy people? How many have died in the last decade?

Now, how many have died accidentily from firearm accidents from people around the country licensed to own and/or carry them, you know, hunting accidents, kids who find their parents guns and fire them by accients? You know, the stories that don't make the news?

I don't know the statistics, but I'd like to know. I would think that would be important information to have before you allowed 20 yr old kids to carry just to "protect" themselves from the once in a decade nutjob.
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:11 AM
 
830 posts, read 1,319,178 times
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[quote=carolina_guy;3543908]

Again, that is what is happening now, and it's not working. Case in point: Virginia Tech, Chapel Hill, Auburn to name a few.
[quote]

Help me understand how Chapel Hill and Auburn are relevant examples?
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:35 AM
 
575 posts, read 1,352,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxmike View Post
I am a college student, and this would NOT make me feel anymore comfortable or safe. So we have one person who decides to go kill people, so he brings one gun on campus to do so, and our reaction is lets allow everyone who wants to bring a gun on campus do so as a solution? So, more guns are the solution? This would make me pretty uncomfortable with all these people carrying guns. What constitutes a responsible, law-abiding citizen? They have no record of violence? That doesn't mean anything as some people can just snap. Isn't it always the ones who you would least expect it to be that go on school shooting sprees? I can see and understand both sides of this issue, but all I know is that my gut feeling tells me that it would make me feel uncomfortable. There are just a lot of things wrong with allowing students to bring guns on campus...
Wonder how many VT college students present at the shooting scene felt uncomfortable that there was not someone inside the school who was armed and could possibly end the executions that were happening. There are many retired law enforcement and military people who teach at colleges. At the very least they should be able to carry.
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 8,032,333 times
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As someone who does not own a gun I find no security in stricter gun laws or policies that deny an individual the right to carry a gun. To me, it simply means that anyone with a gun is a danger, a threat to me and others who are defenseless. I prefer to know that the good guys and the bad guys are equally likely to be armed.

I think this Empty Holster Protest is an excellent demonstration.
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Lenoir/Morganton, NC
148 posts, read 533,198 times
Reputation: 113
[quote=stlterp;3547300][quote=carolina_guy;3543908]

Again, that is what is happening now, and it's not working. Case in point: Virginia Tech, Chapel Hill, Auburn to name a few.
Quote:

Help me understand how Chapel Hill and Auburn are relevant examples?
Because criminals know that college students are likely to be unarmed, because they are not allowed to possess defensive weapons on campus or in dorms, or in cars parked on [and by extension traveling to or from] school property. Same reason colleges have so many rapes and robberies as well.
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