Students for Concealed Carry on Campus Empty Holster Protest (Charlotte: sales, crime)

[stlterp]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

Not quite sure what you mean or who you are addressing here? The FAQs section only further supports my argument for allowing CC on campus.

Someone was on my case, I think it was anifan, about allowing guns in various places/buildings being "outside the real of possibility" due to the current laws. But my understanding is that the push is to make changes to make concealed carry legal in many places, including dorms, classrooms, etc.

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by stlterp

Someone was on my case, I think it was anifan, about allowing guns in various places/buildings being "outside the real of possibility" due to the current laws. But my understanding is that the push is to make changes to make concealed carry legal in many places, including dorms, classrooms, etc.

I think what she was referring to, and correct me if I'm wrong ani, that concealed weapons are not permitted everywhereeven with a permit. There are many places that have decals on entryways to buildings that prohibit concealed weapons whether that's a gov building or gas station. Same with the case on a college campus--the university may prohibit concealed weapons at sporting events, etc, even if they allow it everywhere else on campus. But you mention dorms and classrooms, which I wholeheartedly support in favor of allowing CC.

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

I think what she was referring to, and correct me if I'm wrong ani, that concealed weapons are not permitted everywhereeven with a permit. There are many places that have decals on entryways to buildings that prohibit concealed weapons whether that's a gov building or gas station. Same with the case on a college campus--the university may prohibit concealed weapons at sporting events, etc, even if they allow it everywhere else on campus. But you mention dorms and classrooms, which I wholeheartedly support in favor of allowing CC.

Thank you so much, CG, for explaining that even better than I could have. That is exactly what I was referring to. I am sure restrictions will still apply for such places as stadiums for sporting events.

[diamondplayer]

THESE THUGS HAVE NO FEAR OF BRINGING WEAPONS ONTO SCHOOL PROPERTY, LEAVING OUR KIDS SITTING DUCKS. UNFORTUNATLY ONLY WHEN A PROFESSOR BECOMES A VICTIM MAYBE SOMETHING WILL BE DONE.
MORE OF THE SAME AT UNCC. WHERE ARE THE UNIVERSITY POLICE AT 3PM? IT SEEMS THAT THE BAD GUYS CANT EVEN RUN INTO THEM!

Assistance needed in locating suspects
When the UNC Charlotte Police Department verifies that a serious incident or series of crimes have occurred on or even off campus and believes it could impact the University Community, we issue an advisory to increase everyone’s awareness and safety and to seek community assistance in locating suspects.

On April 23, 2008 at approximately 3:00 PM students reported that someone had assaulted them with "BB" type objects (possibly yellow in color) in the vicinity of Phillips Road and Broadrick Road. During the investigation, another student anonymously reported someone had assaulted him in a similar fashion several days ago and he had not reported the incident. The student left without providing the police his name. The suspects are described as 4 or 5 males, black, operating a silver Neon. The weapons used may be an air gun discharging plastic projectiles.

[johnrex62]

Originally Posted by nyxmike

I am a college student, and this would NOT make me feel anymore comfortable or safe. So we have one person who decides to go kill people, so he brings one gun on campus to do so, and our reaction is lets allow everyone who wants to bring a gun on campus do so as a solution? So, more guns are the solution? This would make me pretty uncomfortable with all these people carrying guns. What constitutes a responsible, law-abiding citizen? They have no record of violence? That doesn't mean anything as some people can just snap. Isn't it always the ones who you would least expect it to be that go on school shooting sprees? I can see and understand both sides of this issue, but all I know is that my gut feeling tells me that it would make me feel uncomfortable. There are just a lot of things wrong with allowing students to bring guns on campus...

I hear your concerns, but feel they are groundless and misplaced.

Bullies tend to pick on weaker opponents and shun those able to fight back. Agressive non-bullies tend to retaliate more quickly when they perceive there is advantage and back off when there is none. "Crazy" people (A very simplistic description of many mental scenarios) do not care and will attack whenever they feel pushed to whatever point is their particular point of no return.

Given these natural tendencies, weapons tend to reduce violence and agression in each case. Gun are a valid weapon just as many other things are weapons, just more vilified due to their effectiveness.

If a bully must decide if his victim has a weapon and is capable of using it properly or not, he is less likely to bully. If an upset, agressive, non-bully is unsure if his target has a weapon, he is more likely to let things slide without a confrontation.

If a "Crazy" person has decided to go off, nothing will stop it until the "Crazy" person is stopped. It makes sense to use the most effective tool you have to do this. Unless you are an incredible motivational speaker or have super human empathic powers, force is often the most effective way to stop a criminally violent "Crazy" person. It also makes sense to use the most effective force you are capable of mustering to protect your own well being.

It takes practice and some degree of skill to use any weapon effectively. Clubs are ususally the easiest to master, but certainly not the most effective when facing an illegally obtained firearm in the possession of a determined "Crazy" person. Handguns are the most effective and also easily mastered, so they seem to make the most sense.

Bottom line is that when a populace is armed with effective weapons, they make a much less favorable target for violence. Only "Crazy" people will mess with them, and that attack will be much less effective when the target can fight back just as effectively.

[johnrex62]

Originally Posted by cagman

Face it, if you find yourself in math class staring down a nutjob with a gun, it might just your time to check out. Life is cruel sometimes and it surely isn't fair.

By that logic, why look both ways when crossing a road? Why is it bad to drive down a train track? What is the problem with kicking that professional boxer in the nuts?

If it is your time, then there is nothing you can do about it, and if not, then nothing will happen to you?



Wake up! Smell the coffee! Life is full of consequences and you not taking precautions just increases your chance of paying those consequences. It does not matter where you are, who you are with, what you are doing. Life will deal with you based on events whether you like it or not.

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by johnrex62

I hear your concerns, but feel they are groundless and misplaced.

Bullies tend to pick on weaker opponents and shun those able to fight back. Agressive non-bullies tend to retaliate more quickly when they perceive there is advantage and back off when there is none. "Crazy" people (A very simplistic description of many mental scenarios) do not care and will attack whenever they feel pushed to whatever point is their particular point of no return.

Given these natural tendencies, weapons tend to reduce violence and agression in each case. Gun are a valid weapon just as many other things are weapons, just more vilified due to their effectiveness.

If a bully must decide if his victim has a weapon and is capable of using it properly or not, he is less likely to bully. If an upset, agressive, non-bully is unsure if his target has a weapon, he is more likely to let things slide without a confrontation.

If a "Crazy" person has decided to go off, nothing will stop it until the "Crazy" person is stopped. It makes sense to use the most effective tool you have to do this. Unless you are an incredible motivational speaker or have super human empathic powers, force is often the most effective way to stop a criminally violent "Crazy" person. It also makes sense to use the most effective force you are capable of mustering to protect your own well being.

It takes practice and some degree of skill to use any weapon effectively. Clubs are ususally the easiest to master, but certainly not the most effective when facing an illegally obtained firearm in the possession of a determined "Crazy" person. Handguns are the most effective and also easily mastered, so they seem to make the most sense.

Bottom line is that when a populace is armed with effective weapons, they make a much less favorable target for violence. Only "Crazy" people will mess with them, and that attack will be much less effective when the target can fight back just as effectively.

BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!

[burt49]

In my opinion, Americans have delegated their responsibilities to federal and local governments for so long that "we the people" have developed an entitled mentality, allways looking for some "professional" to solve our problems.. I think our society is decaying and getting more and more lawless..we can all lay down and hope others will take care of our every need (wishful thinking) or realize that that criminals will NEVER obey all the laws that people pass. These restrictive laws that only limit law obiding citicens do nothing to fix the problems but only give uninformed people a sense of comfort and make politicians look like they are accomplishing something ... AS long as people exist there will be anger, hostility, rage and a desire to hurt, kill and distroy in the hearts of some.... no law can prevent this.. no government can remove it or fully protect others from this... you are responsible for your ultimate protection and others depend on you as well.. There is no ultimate foolproof safety and protection for you... the best you can do is wake up and get prepared for things... or stay in lala land and hope for the best... I grew up in louisiana where gun laws are very relaxed.. most people have a gun there and using and haveing a gun there is no big deal, kind of like having a hammer or screwdriver in your toolbox.. using a gun often removes any misconceptions or fears and makes a person relaxed and proficient in its use.. i think if all those who fear guns would just use one enough to get good at it that would solve most of the problems ... As i see it if we keep on going as we are many people are going to be murdered by the lawless, till we get sick and tired of it and learn to protect ourselfs , when we learn to do this some will still die, there are no absolute guarantees in life, but i think far fewer will die if we carry guns and are accurate and proficient with them, this will require a different mindset than we currently have... OR we can follow the path of other nations and disarm everyone, all lawabiding citicens will be disarmed and this will give politicans and people who refuse to protect themselfs a warm fuzzy feeling as if they are now safe... but criminals will love this because they will ALLWAYS have guns, even if they have to make them in their garages, then it will be easy pickins, like shooting fish in a barrel...

[Whytewulf]

I am 100% for the protest, it is our right as citizens.

I am leaning towards not liking the law of allowing them to carry on campus.
-Knowing the kids on college campus aren't at a certain maturity level. Let me expound. Most students on campus are between 18 and 23. Yes they can range from 11 to 100, but I am talking majority and on campus. The law is for 21 an older, however, college itself puts an undue pressure on the student population, in a confined area, access to drinking and drugs and presents an opportunity to do too many crazy things. Those under 21 would also probably have easier access. Its not that an 18, 21 or 25 year is not responsable enough to carry a gun and I believe everyone should have that right, but again I look at the concentrated area dn environment of the college campus and it presents itself to some scary opportunities. I honestly don't trust the judgement of many college students.

I believe the majority of those people against this aren't against defending themselves. I know I would with everything available to me. Again as noted above, I understand the desire and respect their methods. I don't know the answers, there is no sure way of protecting oneself from gun fire. Even if you had a gun, it is not a solid defense. I think the concept of "well if they know the base will be armed, they might not do it". I don't buy it, most people who go off aren't thinking logically.

VT was a horrible tragedy. A gun carrying student might have been able to stop him. But as a people we do "over-react" to certain instances. It still is rare that these situations occur. One time is too many, thats not my argument here, its a matter of which is "worse" accidents with guns on campus vs. preventing willful misconduct. As someone mentioned there are facts out there, but in reality since most campuses don't allow this today, this is new ground, so no real facts can be used. A college campus is a very different environment then your home. Those poor ladies shot off campus aren't as relevent, because that could be said about any victim and we are strictly speaking of on campus here.

Lastly, this is a passionate subject breached many times on here. Not a lot of gray area, but just because someone does not think more guns are the answer, doesn't mean they are against people carrying guns, are uneducated in gun law, don't feel you should defende yourself, etc. I wish these things didn't happen, I wish we all had protective shields, but guns are an offense and a threat of use deterant, not a defense. To the extreme it is like nuclear weapons, we have them so people fear we won't use them, they are not a defense.

[BarbJ]

I have promised myself I would not enter into this "Students Carrying" debate, but the thought of one of my students entering my classroom with a gun, has absolutely freaked me out. So much for my good intentions.

As a former professor and the wife of a former professor, I can assure you that I would never step into a classroom where I knew that I might irritate a student who was carrying a gun.

My husband taught, organic chemistry and biochemistry, two very demanding courses which frustrated many students. These courses were and continue to be the downfall for many students who have an unrealistic hope of attending medical school. There is often a lot of anger associated with a student's failure in these courses. I would hate to think that there was even the possibility that an angry immature student might bring a firearm into such a class and, seeing a "D" or an "F" on a returned exam, take out his frustration on the professor.