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Old 05-28-2008, 01:35 PM
 
4,097 posts, read 10,180,326 times
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How can this NOT be political and who is going to move it?

This IS political on every level.

Dawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_guy View Post
This is great!! This week students on campuses across the country (including UNCC) are protesting anti-gun laws that strip responsible, law-abiding citizens of their right to conceal and carry firearms. There are many ways you can contribute by going to their website: Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - ConcealedCampus.com

Please do not get off topic here. I want this thread to stay open for education purposes and to inform those who cherish their rights to bear arms that students at UNCC and across the country are standing up for their rights to defend themselves. This thread is not for political discussion as it will be moved!!

Read the local story at:

News 14 | 24 Hour Local News | TOP STORIES | Some seek to carry on campus
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:37 PM
 
4,097 posts, read 10,180,326 times
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You haven't taught in inner-city Los Angeles.

Dawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
I hear your concerns, but feel they are groundless and misplaced.

Bullies tend to pick on weaker opponents and shun those able to fight back. Agressive non-bullies tend to retaliate more quickly when they perceive there is advantage and back off when there is none. "Crazy" people (A very simplistic description of many mental scenarios) do not care and will attack whenever they feel pushed to whatever point is their particular point of no return.

Given these natural tendencies, weapons tend to reduce violence and agression in each case. Gun are a valid weapon just as many other things are weapons, just more vilified due to their effectiveness.

If a bully must decide if his victim has a weapon and is capable of using it properly or not, he is less likely to bully. If an upset, agressive, non-bully is unsure if his target has a weapon, he is more likely to let things slide without a confrontation.

If a "Crazy" person has decided to go off, nothing will stop it until the "Crazy" person is stopped. It makes sense to use the most effective tool you have to do this. Unless you are an incredible motivational speaker or have super human empathic powers, force is often the most effective way to stop a criminally violent "Crazy" person. It also makes sense to use the most effective force you are capable of mustering to protect your own well being.

It takes practice and some degree of skill to use any weapon effectively. Clubs are ususally the easiest to master, but certainly not the most effective when facing an illegally obtained firearm in the possession of a determined "Crazy" person. Handguns are the most effective and also easily mastered, so they seem to make the most sense.

Bottom line is that when a populace is armed with effective weapons, they make a much less favorable target for violence. Only "Crazy" people will mess with them, and that attack will be much less effective when the target can fight back just as effectively.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,686,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbJ View Post
I have promised myself I would not enter into this "Students Carrying" debate, but the thought of one of my students entering my classroom with a gun, has absolutely freaked me out. So much for my good intentions.

As a former professor and the wife of a former professor, I can assure you that I would never step into a classroom where I knew that I might irritate a student who was carrying a gun.

My husband taught, organic chemistry and biochemistry, two very demanding courses which frustrated many students. These courses were and continue to be the downfall for many students who have an unrealistic hope of attending medical school. There is often a lot of anger associated with a student's failure in these courses. I would hate to think that there was even the possibility that an angry immature student might bring a firearm into such a class and, seeing a "D" or an "F" on a returned exam, take out his frustration on the professor.
Dearest Barb,

what makes you think they can't do that now? A law prohibiting such behavior does nothing to actually deter said behavior. As mentioned before, "free gun zones" do nothing more than provide a criminal mind a playground to commit violence as no one is legally present to defend themselves or others. However, a student legally carrying a firearm has a decent chance of preventing such an event from happening.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,686,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnW View Post
How can this NOT be political and who is going to move it?

This IS political on every level.

Dawn
I think have I long since retracted that statement and only sought keeping this thread in Charlotte by keeping it local. You are right, it is naturally political, but I hope it continues to stay politically local.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,686,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burt49 View Post
In my opinion, Americans have delegated their responsibilities to federal and local governments for so long that "we the people" have developed an entitled mentality, allways looking for some "professional" to solve our problems.. I think our society is decaying and getting more and more lawless..we can all lay down and hope others will take care of our every need (wishful thinking) or realize that that criminals will NEVER obey all the laws that people pass. These restrictive laws that only limit law obiding citicens do nothing to fix the problems but only give uninformed people a sense of comfort and make politicians look like they are accomplishing something ... AS long as people exist there will be anger, hostility, rage and a desire to hurt, kill and distroy in the hearts of some.... no law can prevent this.. no government can remove it or fully protect others from this... you are responsible for your ultimate protection and others depend on you as well.. There is no ultimate foolproof safety and protection for you... the best you can do is wake up and get prepared for things... or stay in lala land and hope for the best... I grew up in louisiana where gun laws are very relaxed.. most people have a gun there and using and haveing a gun there is no big deal, kind of like having a hammer or screwdriver in your toolbox.. using a gun often removes any misconceptions or fears and makes a person relaxed and proficient in its use.. i think if all those who fear guns would just use one enough to get good at it that would solve most of the problems ... As i see it if we keep on going as we are many people are going to be murdered by the lawless, till we get sick and tired of it and learn to protect ourselfs , when we learn to do this some will still die, there are no absolute guarantees in life, but i think far fewer will die if we carry guns and are accurate and proficient with them, this will require a different mindset than we currently have... OR we can follow the path of other nations and disarm everyone, all lawabiding citicens will be disarmed and this will give politicans and people who refuse to protect themselfs a warm fuzzy feeling as if they are now safe... but criminals will love this because they will ALLWAYS have guns, even if they have to make them in their garages, then it will be easy pickins, like shooting fish in a barrel...
Well said.

I wonder if there is a way to locate stats for a possible increase in Mecklenburg county gun sales and issuance of CCWs. Anybody know?
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,686,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnW View Post
You haven't taught in inner-city Los Angeles.

Dawn
What does this mean? I can only imagine it means you like criminals being the only ones with guns?
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:56 PM
 
4,097 posts, read 10,180,326 times
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It means I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry allowed to carry weapons....if 70% of the population of a school, community college, whatever lives in the barrio, I don't want them getting into a gun fight in my classroom!

All it takes is for one idiot to get all the others to whip theirs out too.

You can't say, "Oh, and only those in the less violent crime areas of a city are allowed to carry one."

That is all I meant.

Dawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_guy View Post
What does this mean? I can only imagine it means you like criminals being the only ones with guns?
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:50 PM
 
1,166 posts, read 3,550,142 times
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Sweet carolina_guy, I know that they can do it now, but by telling students that it is legal to carry a concealed weapon into class we would be telling them that we as a society approve of this practice. By extension, aren't we telling them that it's OK to use the gun? Why else does one carry a gun if not to shoot with it. In a classroom what will you shoot? the computer? the CD player? I've read several times on this forum that if you carry a gun you'd better be prepared to use it. So again I ask, on what/whom will you use it?
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Old 05-28-2008, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,686,176 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbJ View Post
Sweet carolina_guy, I know that they can do it now, but by telling students that it is legal to carry a concealed weapon into class we would be telling them that we as a society approve of this practice. By extension, aren't we telling them that it's OK to use the gun? Why else does one carry a gun if not to shoot with it. In a classroom what will you shoot? the computer? the CD player? I've read several times on this forum that if you carry a gun you'd better be prepared to use it. So again I ask, on what/whom will you use it?
It is only legal with the appropriate training and permit issued by the Sheriff. We are not talking about just anybody being able to legally carry.

Licensed gun carriers do so not with the intension "to shoot", but with the intension to use lethal force if their life or the life of another is immediately threatened. I would like to confidently submit that no school shooting tragedies have been the result of an individual(s) possessing a CCW permit. Furthermore, pressures of school are no more than pressures of society in general.

If the law states that an individual at the age of 21 can legally carry a firearm with the proper permit, why should this right be denied on a college campus? What makes the permit holder more likely to lose his temper on a campus than at the supermarket, or the traffic light, or the swimming pool where he otherwise has the right to carry in these places?

Alas, gun restriction only affects the responsible citizen, and the criminal wolf continues to feed on the sheep who are unable to defend themselves.
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Old 05-28-2008, 10:15 PM
 
11,836 posts, read 25,487,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_guy View Post
Alas, gun restriction only affects the responsible citizen, and the criminal wolf continues to feed on the sheep who are unable to defend themselves.
Very well said.
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