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Old 06-20-2008, 08:48 AM
 
630 posts, read 1,206,622 times
Reputation: 282

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As far as lawyer fees its the same as anything else. You pay a mechanic $80 per hour to fix a $4 part.

I'm an electrical engineer. Customers pay big $$ for products and components that maybe cost $25 in parts. But without the schooling I went through and the experience, those parts are useless.

Jewelry stores make 50 to 80% profit. Supermarkets make around 1%. How often do you buy a diamond ring? How often do you buy groceries? Thats why the margin is higher.

Its like anything else, if people need it, they will pay. Peopple don't need it very often, but when they do it's an emergency, they will pay. Thats how doctors, lawyers, engineers, plumbers, mechanics all work. If you don't like it, don't use them.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Huntersville
1,521 posts, read 3,321,855 times
Reputation: 291
I did not read the entire thread but will speak from experience in NC.

My story....

1. Speeding 85 in a 65 on I-40 Pulled over when I was behind (Yes Behind) the State Trooper. Seems he wanted to see how fast I wanted to go before he hit me with the radar.

I went to court worried etc. Did not face a judge and the DA reduced it to improper equipment. Paid court cost and fine. Did not go on my insurance.

2. 3 months later was pulled for yielding at a stop sign. As many of you know yielding at a stop sign is sometimes needed due to all the traffic but the Police Officer did not like my story and decided to give the ticket anyways.

Went to court paid the fine. Improper equipment.

3. Cruising through town on a lovely Carolina day windows down great song on the radio. I wouldn't really call it speeding but the law does.... 60 in a 45.

Went to court, prayer for judgement,

This all happened in a 12 month span. Other than bleeding myself dry with court cost and fines that's all I paid.

This was about 2.5 years ago not sure if much has changed since then.

I wouldn't be to concerned. If needed call the DA and talk with them. Give yourself enough time for plan B.

Good Luck!
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Providence Downs - Union County
267 posts, read 632,986 times
Reputation: 54
I have been pulled over for speeding somewhere around 8-10 times in the past, and received probably 5 or 6 tickets. Of those tickets, none have ended up on my record in their full amount. The first one was dropped from 19 over to 4 over (1 point on my SC license). The second one was dropped from 23 over down to 14 over (4 points on SC license).

Lawyers have definitely helped me out a TON haha.

The beauty of a SC license is that you can get 13 points before your license is taken, AND they offer a 4 point reduction class

Move to Fort Mill and get a SC license - It's great! haha
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Waxhaw
138 posts, read 275,647 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by johne482 View Post
Let me be the first to say -Great post Par 4.I just hope the OP doesn't change the title of the thread to "I Hate New York Lawyers".
LOL . . . I am actually a very nice guy - ask my wife she will vouch for me
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Indian Land
607 posts, read 1,322,108 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 View Post
THIS is a GARBAGE argument. It is NOT the lawyers fault that doctors commit malpractice. NOR is it the lawyers fault that the medical profession is either unable or unwilling to police its own industry.

I am an attorney. I personally know of several doctors who practiced in NY and committed several counts of malpractice - seriously maiming many individuals with uneccessary and botched back/neck surgeries. They were reprimanded, and lost their ability to practice medicine in NY ONLY. They then went to other states, like Florida and Colorado and did the SAME thing - more malpractice/botched uneccessary surgeries. Per the medical industry, 5% of licensed doctors commit almost 95% of the medical malpractice. In my opinion, blame the 5% of doctors committing malpractice for the high insurance rates!

FYI if an attorney is disbarred in one state - they CANNOT practice ever again in another state.

Which profession is more honorable.

Further, attorneys are the only one's seeking to protect YOUR rights under the CONSTITUTION! Yes, we do so for a fee, but then everyone works for money. BTW - most attorneys do pro bono (Free Representation) When is the last time YOU did your job for free to benefit someone else.

I am simply sick of people casting wide nasty and derogatory comments about others and their respective professions. Please get a clue.

p.s. - I do not agree with the solicitation you received, but under NC law, it is allowed. This type of solicitation is illegal in NY and would subject an attorney to disciplinary action.

How many ridiculous frivolous malpractice suits are filed each year?? Your argument on malpractice is B.S. to say the least. Why is Auto insurance so much now a days? Who is going to be paying the attorneys who represent the enemy at Guantanamo Bay? How much will the tax payer be bilked on that one? I remember having jury duty and the lawyers for the plaintiff were suing Ford Motor Co. for damages in a collision. It was because the car was leased from them so somehow they are liable. Coffee was too hot and I got burned....let's sue. Your profession (or racket) is costing hard working Americans tons of money each year. I stand by my statement 100% that I absolutely abhor attorneys and do not trust any of them. Oh...BTW: your whole protecting our Constitutional right argument...I don't see how lawyers are protecting them...I see them manipulating them for $$$$$$.

Maybe I should be careful about what I say...you might try to sue me for damages!!!

Last edited by BRKLYN2CLT; 06-20-2008 at 08:18 PM..
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Waxhaw
138 posts, read 275,647 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRKLYN2CLT View Post
How many ridiculous frivolous malpractice suits are filed each year?? Your argument on malpractice is B.S. to say the least. Why is Auto insurance so much now a days? Who is going to be paying the attorneys who represent the enemy at Guantanamo Bay? How much will the tax payer be bilked on that one? I remember having jury duty and the lawyers for the plaintiff were suing Ford Motor Co. for damages in a collision. It was because the car was leased from them so somehow they are liable. Coffee was too hot and I got burned....let's sue. Your profession (or racket) is costing hard working Americans tons of money each year. I stand by my statement 100% that I absolutely abhor attorneys and do not trust any of them. Oh...BTW: your whole protecting our Constitutional right argument...I don't see how lawyers are protecting them...I see them manipulating them for $$$$$$.

Maybe I should be careful about what I say...you might try to sue me for damages!!!
You have no clue about what you are saying. In order for a malpractice suit to be brought, the validity of the claim must first be sworn to by a licensed doctor. THEN, the defendant has the right to seek dismissal of a claim for being frivilous - (where a judge can state that the claim has NO validity and then toss it out of court). Malpractice suits only proceed if they are valid.

This is also true of ALL personal injury suits. A defendant can make a motion to the court seeking the dismissal of the case for having no valid claim. It seems that your real beef is with the verdicts handed down by jurys (which are made up of your peers, NOT attorneys) So get your facts straight before making unfounded remarks disparaging a profession.

Also, attorneys do NOT get paid for cases that are frivilous and tossed out of court, since these matters are handled on a contingent fee basis, not billed hourly.

AND, you can complain al you like aboout the McDonalds Coffee verdict (which was handed down by a jury, NOT attorneys AND later reduced by a JUDGE!)

But, the woman in that case suffered 3rd degree burns to her vagina and labia requiring several plastic and reconstructive surgeries. If that same cup of extremely hot coffee (with no warning as to how HOT it really was) had fallen on YOUR infant, who would then be scarred for life, I doubt you would be singing the same tune.

You can stick by your statements, BUT it only shows how uninformed and ignorant you are to the REAL facts.

p.s. - I am not going to sue you. In fact, I only wish that you make arguments based upon facts, not supposition or feelings of hatred that are not based upon true real world facts. Though there is some validity to what you say (vicarious liability - Ford being sued), most of what you have had to say is simply untrue, exagerrated or not fairly communicated (McDonald's burn case), and very visceral.

You have every right to dislike aspects of the legal profession - I too hate to see attorneys engage in direct solicitation (although allowed by law in NC) - it only serves to help demean the good honest attorneys who are looking to help people in need. It is truly sad that you are only albe to focus and obsess on the bad and have no capacity to acknowledge the good things that are done every day by hardworking attorneys who are NOT seeking to "bilk" people out of money.

Just have a little balance to your arguements and base them in fact, not supposition and falsehoods.

Last edited by par4; 06-21-2008 at 12:05 AM..
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:00 AM
 
51 posts, read 95,468 times
Reputation: 27
"Hall of Fame" response. Excellent rebuttal.
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Indian Land
607 posts, read 1,322,108 times
Reputation: 392
Litigation is destroying American companies
Glenn W. Bailey

A SURVEY that was conducted by a congressman among his constituents showed that, while most of them were concerned deeply about the economy, very few seemed to be worked up about America's competitiveness, even though competitive superiority in the world made the US. prosperous. The economy depends on it. Americans take US. manufacturing superiority for granted. However, the country is losing it, and litigation is one of the big reasons why.

Litigation impedes productivity. Forty-seven percent of the nation's manufacturers threw in the towel on some product they were making or planning to produce because lawyers have a chance to sue over a customer misusing the product or improperly handling it. Losses due to litigation might be endless, explaining why 25% of manufacturers discontinued some forms of product research and 15% laid off workers. Americans have forgotten that their rights are dependent on the willingness to take responsibility for their actions.

Compare Japanese and American cultures. The Japanese are motivated by a cooperative system that benefits all. A struggle for power in the Japanese culture is paramount. He who has the power, has the right.

Now look at Americans. They all ought to be proud of their individual rights, but, somewhere over the past decade or two, one's responsibility for his or her actions has been forgotten. People now look at power and perceive it as immoral. Americans say power works against the average person. How did that attitude come about? It's partly because we are becoming a nation of crybabies and busybodies, as an August, 1991, article in Time magazine stated.

Individuals forget their responsibilities, demand rights and entitlements, blame others for their problems, and don't want to pay for what happens to them as a result of their own actions. Lawyers exploit these trends and become rich. A number of them are obscenely greedy. As a result, the American civil justice system is breaking down, businesses are becoming less competitive, and jobs are disappearing.

What exists today is a lawsuit lottery that leads to legalized extortion. Lawyers feed on the "entitlement generation" to create panic over asbestos and other products. Attorneys blame the suppliers of the products despite the fact that warnings on packages were ignored by workers, their unions, and their employers. Lawyers wrongly claim that suppliers were concerned about profits over people. They preach that they are taking from rich companies and giving to the poor, yet two-thirds of the money goes to attorneys.

A Roper poll of the American people reported in the Wall Street Journal showed that 70% agree that liability suits give lawyers more money than they deserve, and 63% agree that some people start frivolous lawsuits because the awards are so big and there's so little to lose. Almost 70% would limit punitive damage awards. By contrast, a survey of lawyers and judges also reported by the Wall Street Journal found that only 22% viewed the civil justice system negatively, while 77% blamed the media for clogging the courts and the breakdown of the system.

The New York Times reported that the American Bar Association rejects all limits on fact-finding before trial, appeals on convicted criminals, punitive damages, fees they charge, and so-called "junk science experts." Instead, the Times said, the ABA calls for more taxpayer funds for legal aid lawyers, tax benefits for payments to attorneys, a halt to Federal crime statutes, and additional judges appointed to handle more cases.

What has been the reaction to proposals for civil justice reform recommended by the President's Council on Competitiveness? Non-lawyers support them by 100 to one. Perhaps surprisingly, individual attorneys back the civil justice reform package by four to one., So, who's more in touch with reality, the public or America's largest organization of attorneys?

The fact is, lawyers are overwhelming America. The U.S. has one lawyer for every 300 people--about 70% of the world's attorneys--while Japan has one for every 10,000 of its population. With all of the lawyers we have in America, some of them have found it expedient to inspire panic to promote litigation through which they can build income for themselves.

Keene Corporation's experience with asbestos litigation is a perfect example of the civil justice system run amok as well as the negative effect litigation has on competitiveness. Keene bought Baldwin-Ehret-Hill in 1968 for $8,000,000. A small percentage of BEH's sales were in asbestos-containing products, made to meet U.S. Navy, utility, and construction project requirements. BEH placed warnings on its packaging before Keene purchased the company. In 1972, BEH stopped production of these products, which never produced a profit for Keene, and the company was shut down completely by 1975. Yet, despite this minimal involvement with a company it owned for a mere seven years, Keene is a major defendant in prohibitively expensive asbestos litigation.

Through 1992, Keene and its insurance carriers had spent about $415,000,000 on this litigation, even though the company never did anything illegal or improper. Keene has expressed willingness to provide total settlements up to $500,000,000--and lawyers will get more than $300,000,000 of that amount.

All of this has occurred even though it is undisputed that, when properly handled, asbestos products are safe and of great social utility. The U.S. Navy maintained as late as 1979 that it was impossible to build efficient naval vessels without asbestos.

While asbestos is number 90 on the Environmental Protection Agency's list of items that should concern people, asbestos litigation is number one as a cause of court clogging, number one in number of claimants, number one in causing bankruptcies of otherwise healthy and productive companies, and number one in generating lawyers' fees for damage litigation.

The existing format for processing asbestos claims--through the tort system--is the most inefficient way to get money to claimants. In asbestos litigation, less than 35% of the funds go to the plaintiff. Because a system has evolved that establishes different legal standards for asbestos claimants--making it easier for unimpaired claimants to obtain grossly inflated damage awards--as few as five to 10 cents on the dollar are delivered to the truly impaired plaintiffs.

Judges' efforts to resolve cases all too often have resulted in a perverse incentive--causing more cases and more backlog. The opportunity for contingency fees that yield some attorneys returns of well over $5,000 per hour drive them to recruit more plaintiffs, many of whom are not sick. When cases are settled, these lawyers recruit still more plaintiffs and file still more cases, resulting in even more serious docket clogging and the further depletion of funds needed for truly impaired plaintiffs in the future.

Today's trials limit the plaintiffs' responsibility for ignoring warnings and the employer's responsibility for not providing a safe workplace and enforcing the company's then-existing requirement to wear respirators in areas where dust could not be controlled by the use of ventilation and dust collection equipment. Instead, they focus solely on the supplier and permit the introduction of irrelevant and inflammatory evidence, resulting in verdicts not related to the extent of the plaintiffs' injury, but to the heat of the lawyers' rhetoric. This combination inevitably leads to more cases and more trials.

Various cases yield unpredictable, inequitable, and arbitrary results. Juries, confronted with essentially the same facts, have awarded damages ranging from zero to millions of dollars! This "asbestos lottery" and its attendant high contingency fee payments have motivated plaintiff lawyers to recruit increasing numbers of unimpaired claimants to perpetuate their fee-feeding frenzy.

In some jurisdictions, defendants have been "gagged" from commenting on matters of public concern and presenting historical facts while judges and attorneys publicly have aired frequently prejudicial opinions.

Since the bankruptcy of Johns-Manville and other major suppliers, plaintiffs' law firms have scrambled to retool their practice and target smaller companies like BEH. The burden of larger and larger "lottery" type awards now falls on fewer and fewer companies with less and less money. For example, in a current case, with 8,555 plaintiffs, approximately 85% of the 100-plus original defendants are not in the courtroom. Furthermore, though BEH had less than a few percent of the market and never mined or milled asbestos, Keene currently has more than 90,000 cases pending against it.

The asbestos litigation thus far has cost the American economy around $20,000,000,000, with about $12,000,000,000 going to lawyers. Those billions could have been used to invest in and create more than 200,000 jobs or 90,000 housing units.



This article is old but I thought it summed up what is going on in this country fairly well. I could research longer for more numbers and facts however, It's Saturday morning and I'm actually getting tired of this thread. This was all about a silly speeding ticket and mailings I received from attorneys and somehow it morphed into a huge debate about Constitutional Law and how lawyers are needed in society. SHEEEEESH

Last edited by BRKLYN2CLT; 06-21-2008 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:17 AM
 
509 posts, read 1,244,942 times
Reputation: 177
There are so many things I could say, but I just have a question.

What about the lawyers who defend the docotors, hospitals, companies, etc. from these lawsuits you are complaining about - Do you "hate" them too?
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:21 AM
 
51 posts, read 95,468 times
Reputation: 27
As a person who, in a former life, was involved in prosecuting cases involving the Big Dig in Boston, I've seen some fairly good lawyers doing some fairly good work.

My only legal advice (from a distinctly non-lawyerly perspective) is not to expose your 'hatred' of lawyers to the DA in charge of your case.
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