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Old 07-31-2008, 08:24 PM
 
1,877 posts, read 4,841,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyKayak View Post
On a regular interstate that would be find but if you are on a loop and heading at your suggested N.E. direction at some point in the loop you are going to be heading S.E. making this method in effective. If a buisness or someone is trying to give me directions to Carolina Place Mall from 77 no matter if I am coming from SC or Charlotte and they tell me to take the Outer to such and such exit I know where they are talking about or least will not be looping around in the long direction.
I think it really elementary
Outer- counter clockwise
Inner - Clockwise
You know. San Antonio has 2 loops which go around the city. Loop 1604 is the bigger loop, covering the whole city. Loop 210 is the smaller loop covering most of the urban area. How are they distinguished? Inner and Outer. Inner and Outer in Charlotte should refer to our 2 loops, as an earlier poster suggested IMHO.
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:20 PM
 
Location: The 12th State
22,974 posts, read 65,273,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoagie58 View Post
You know. San Antonio has 2 loops which go around the city. Loop 1604 is the bigger loop, covering the whole city. Loop 210 is the smaller loop covering most of the urban area. How are they distinguished? Inner and Outer. Inner and Outer in Charlotte should refer to our 2 loops, as an earlier poster suggested IMHO.

Similar if ever completed 485 to I 277 but I see the way you see it the smaller would be the inner and the larger the outer but that breaking up to much The inner and outer the way the highways are currently labeled around here is the direction of travel heading counter clockwise is the Outer loop travelers the ones heading in a clockwise direction are the Inner travelers
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:05 PM
 
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If you told someone to take inner or outer they would probably be confused, as this is a convention not used in 90% of the U.S. Most people think inner means going toward the city/into the city and outer means outside / away from the city.

Inner/Outer only tells you which side you are on. If you don't know why you are, relative to the city, you still wouldn't know whether to take inner or outer. If you didn't know you were on the south side, or noth side, you wouldn't know whether to take inner or outer to get to the east side. At least a compass direction on a sign gives you an idea of which direction you'd be going.

Example: Ever visit DC? Should you take inner or outer to Tyson's Corner? Well, depends where you are at in the city. And if you aren't 100% sure, you still wouldn't know which one to take. So, you are back to guessing again. Both inner/out go in circles - and without a compass direction, you wouldn't even know which direction you'd be going unless you took out a sundial and looked at the shadow. Guess what - you were one exit north of Tyson's corner, and took the inner - and just went 63 miles the wrong way, and using only inner/outer, never knew what direction you were going. If the side had only said N E S W I'd have at least known which direction the road was going, and if you had noticed you were going eaast - maybe could have guess you were going the wrong way.

re: "suggested N.E. direction at some point in the loop you are going to be heading S.E. making this method in effective. "

It's no more innefective than saying inner/out. Both take you in a circle. Again, that's the point of a loop - it DOES change direction - and having the compass direction tells you that you are changing direction, letting you know which way you are going. This is no different than in a city, with two roads, where you tell somene 'take tyvola road east to park road, then go south'. You are changing the direction you are going by traveling the road(s).

re: "no matter if I am coming from SC or Charlotte and they tell me to take the Outer to such and such exit I know where they are talking about or least will not be looping around in the long direction."

You just proved my point. If that peson happened to be in Matthews and they took the Outer, you just sent them 10s of miles the wrong way - going around 80% of the loop to the north, then west, then south, then back east, when all they had to do was go west.... My point, again, is if you don't know where you are relative to the city, you still wouldn't know which way to go. You can't arbitrarily just say 'inner' or 'outer'.

Really - I don't understanding the need to reinvent something used throughout the country, for decades, simply because a new city that has never had a loop road has a few confused people....

Add inner/outer to N E S W. Just like DC and Baltimore. Done....now everyone is happy and understands....

Last edited by bester2258; 07-31-2008 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:12 PM
 
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jjp4 is 100% correct.

Even more detail:

Starts with odd (1xx, 3xx, 5xx, 7xx, 9xx) - The road connects at one end to an interstate, but not at the other.

Starts with even (2xx, 4xx, 6xx, 8xx) - The road connects to another interstate at both ends. The road doesn't have to be a 'loop', nor does it even have to follow the same 'drection' as it's parent number. i.e. I-95 is a north/south freeway, but 695 (hypothetical) could run east/west.

There are a few exceptions to the above, by states that didn't follow the standard - or due to freeway alignment/downgrades that result in them no longer following the standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjp4 View Post
No!!! 3-digit interstates are not always beltloops. They are spurs off of the main highway, but don't necessarily form loops (i.e. I-270 in Maryland, I-476 in PA). Don't want you getting lost thinking that all the 3-digits will just loop around at some point!
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:41 AM
 
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Living in a city with a beltway, you quickly figure out inner/outer loops of beltways. All the traffic reports refer to inner/outer, and usually an exit number, for accidents, jams, etc.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:41 PM
 
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Which is fine for people that live in the city and know the area. Sucks for those that aren't from the area, which is one of the purposes of signs. Inner/Outer doesn't give a direction, just a side.

Charlotte will waste taxpayer money doing this. It will fail, just like it did in Raleigh because it did nothing but confuse everyone. Then they'll have to add the compass directions back and be like 99% of the rest of the country again.




Quote:
Originally Posted by stlterp View Post
Living in a city with a beltway, you quickly figure out inner/outer loops of beltways. All the traffic reports refer to inner/outer, and usually an exit number, for accidents, jams, etc.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:52 PM
 
Location: The 12th State
22,974 posts, read 65,273,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bester2258 View Post
Which is fine for people that live in the city and know the area. Sucks for those that aren't from the area, which is one of the purposes of signs. Inner/Outer doesn't give a direction, just a side.

Charlotte will waste taxpayer money doing this. It will fail, just like it did in Raleigh because it did nothing but confuse everyone. Then they'll have to add the compass directions back and be like 99% of the rest of the country again.
Lets say the 485 is complet4e and follow your logic of a compass and you are in Pineville and need to take 485 to Concord do you head north east or west ?
Answer you will need to at least two of a compass directions

Lets say you are in Matthews and need to head to Mt Holly and you was given directions .. Someone telling you take the inner loop would make alot quicker trip than the outer loop.

It pretty simple if you think about it Inner Clockwise, Outer Counter clockwise it is simple as reading a clock
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:06 AM
 
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You are assuming the person knew where they were at on the clock face. You could be at 2, 6, or 9. If you didn't know, you still wouldn't know which way to go. At least with a compas direction you'd have an idea of where you were going. I-458 North.

You ARE correct, in that if you kno where someone is and needed to tell them where to go, you could.

But - for people not from the area, they often may not know where they are in relationship to the city. You see inner/outer only. Since you don't know where you are, you don't know which one goes where. Does inner go to the north side, or outer go to the north side? If I don't where you are, and you don't know where you are, I can't tell you.

And so what if you have to use two directions? The road changes directions - that's what a FULL loop does. You're not going in a straight line. Why is this different than taking two roads? Imagine if mapquest could only give you directions somewhere - without you ever changing directions. That's makes no sense.

Best solution is use inner/outer AND north/east/west/north.

Scenarios:

* Labeling inner/outer only: "I'm on i-485 inner. Where am I am, which way am I going?"

You'd have no clue. you'd only know you were driving counterclockwise, or clockwise. You could be on the west side heading north, north side going east, east side going south, or south side goes west. Guess what - I'm a NASCAR driver!

Out of 100% of the city, it's narrowed down by 0%, doesn't tell you you where you are, or which direction you are going....

Confused drivers not from the area. Terminology not used in most of the country. Inner? I'm going to the 'inner' part of the city? Wait, you say I always know where downtown is? Why do I care - I'm not going to downtown??

* Labeing inner/outer with north/south only. "I'm on i-485 inner north. Where am I am, which way am I going?"

You're on the south side heading west (because it's labeled 'north'), west side heading north, or north side heading east (because it's labeled 'north')

Better. You've reduced it to everywhere but the east side - you're down to just 75% of the city. And - you at least know you are heading north.

Labeing with north/east/south/west only. "I'm on i-485 north. Where am I am, which way am I going?"

You're on the east side heading north, or on west side heading north. You know you're going north....

Even Better - you'd reduced it to 50% of the city.

And hey, this is terminology used in most of the country - I understand this!

Labeing with inner/outer with north/east/south/west. "I'm on i-485 inner north. Where am I am, which way am I going?"

You're on the west side heading north. You know you're heading north.

Best - you've reduced it down to 25% of the city....

And if you were from the 99% of the country that didn't understand inner/outer - you still know you're heading north!












Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyKayak View Post
Lets say the 485 is complet4e and follow your logic of a compass and you are in Pineville and need to take 485 to Concord do you head north east or west ?
Answer you will need to at least two of a compass directions

Lets say you are in Matthews and need to head to Mt Holly and you was given directions .. Someone telling you take the inner loop would make alot quicker trip than the outer loop.

It pretty simple if you think about it Inner Clockwise, Outer Counter clockwise it is simple as reading a clock
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
2,445 posts, read 7,421,065 times
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Granted I've lived in NC my entire life but I assume "99%" of the rest of the country are intelligent people. I understand not knowing the entire city by heart but one should have a general idea of where they are. Wouldn't someone from another area be smart enough to do a little research before coming into town? It would only take a few minutes to learn that inner means clockwise and outer means counter clockwise.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:55 AM
 
10 posts, read 24,296 times
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Even if you knew what inner/outer means, it still is defecient in identifying where one is and where one is going, as outlined in the scenarios above. As someone who has travelled in at least 40 of the 50 states, I can tell you it can be very easy to lose where one exact location is in a city. As Sonny indicated, if you have someone who already knows the area, and they know where you are, its easy. But a driver, unfamiliar with an area, with no one to ask WHILE DRIVING, 5OESNT HAVE THAT OPTION. So let's put all the info on the sign we can: inner/outer AND N E S W.
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