Section 8 and Crime in CLT---Cause and effect relationship? (Charlotte, King: credit, loans)

[anifani821]

SUNNY!!!! ROFL!!!! Yep, those are the ones I see around town . . . hee hee!!!

[stlterp]

Originally Posted by neoflex

I won't comment too much on this as I feel strongly about this particular subject and I will definitely get banned from the board, but to the people defending these low life leaches. Open your eyes and come out from the rock from which your under. TAke a look around you and drive around Charlotte or Monroe around 1-2 pm when most of us are working. Tell me what you see. Won't catch me rolling up to the Welfare office in my Crown Vic with a 10" lift kit, $2,000 stereo and 26" wheels that cost 4 times more than the car itself or a newer more dependable(Plain) car for that matter. Do like the government and pretend the problem doesn't exist.

I don't think anyone is "defending the low life leaches" or denying that there are significant issues out there. The problem I have is with the stereotyping and sweeping generalizations being thrown around.

People act as if being poor is glamourous, or that kids have a choice regarding the parents and situation they are born into...or that hard work is the only thing required to lift yourself out of poverty, especially one that is as endemic and generational as we often have in this country. While poverty by itself may not be linked with crime, certainly concentrated pockets of poverty has an impact.

These issues are not unique to Charlotte - but they may have been somewhat under the surface...but are now being magnified and "discovered" as the city has grown so rapidly. One of the issues that occurs as formerly "borderline" areas like Willmore, NODA and others gentrify is that people, most often poor, are displaced. These people have to go somewhere, and some of what we are seeing in Charlotte is that they are being pushed out of formerly "isolated" areas of the urban core. The same things has happened in Washington DC, as the city gentrifies and some inner suburbs like Prince George County absorb a lot of the displaced and the issues associated with high concentrations of poverty.

[SunnyKayak]

Originally Posted by anifani821

SUNNY!!!! ROFL!!!! Yep, those are the ones I see around town . . . hee hee!!!

hehe

Originally Posted by mullman

I was in Myrtle Beach for a weekend this spring was was astonished by an ad I saw on TV: Rim Rentals. In other words you can rent rims/tires for a day or week of cruising. That is how some people want to roll I guess, on rented rims.

omg I am in tears from laughing. Rim rentals now that is to much. I surely hope section 8 is not being wasted on that.

My brother has a rental to a lady on section 8 and she lived there for about 2 years and she always pays what she has to pay on time. She was all stressed one month because she was going to be late on her payment and it only 80 bucks. He thought it was sweet for her being concern but she generally on time so he told her that month dont worry about it.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by stlterp

I don't think anyone is "defending the low life leaches" or denying that there are significant issues out there. The problem I have is with the stereotyping and sweeping generalizations being thrown around.

People act as if being poor is glamourous, or that kids have a choice regarding the parents and situation they are born into...or that hard work is the only thing required to lift yourself out of poverty, especially one that is as endemic and generational as we often have in this country. While poverty by itself may not be linked with crime, certainly concentrated pockets of poverty has an impact.

These issues are not unique to Charlotte - but they may have been somewhat under the surface...but are now being magnified and "discovered" as the city has grown so rapidly. One of the issues that occurs as formerly "borderline" areas like Willmore, NODA and others gentrify is that people, most often poor, are displaced. These people have to go somewhere, and some of what we are seeing in Charlotte is that they are being pushed out of formerly "isolated" areas of the urban core. The same things has happened in Washington DC, as the city gentrifies and some inner suburbs like Prince George County absorb a lot of the displaced and the issues associated with high concentrations of poverty.

The problem is even worse than you may realize...did you read the article in the Atlantic Monthly where they mention Charlotte and cities the same size, and why our suburban areas are experiencing so much more trouble with crime than bigger cities?

American Murder Mystery

[Miker2069]

The article states that the existence of section 8 isn't the sole cause for crime, it's a correlation vs. a cause and effect. Meaning eliminating section 8 will not eliminate crime, just like eliminating McDonald's will not eliminate the obesity problem (well maybe that's a bad example).

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by stlterp

Leaving everything else in your post aside, I'd like to see how you back up this statement. Basically, you're saying that it's the "illegal invaders" who are the ones causing the overburdening of Charlotte's infrastructure?

Out of the tens of thousands of people who migrate to the Charlotte area each year, how many are "illegal invaders"?

You're kidding me right? There is a huge difference between transplants who pay taxes and contribute to a cities growth versus illegals who do nothing more than leach off our society. But you asked for it, so here's the meat you ordered. It's only 1 of hundreds of articles you will find on the issue, but I used it because it briefly discussed each issue I mentioned that you refuted. So, care to refute me further?

Sheriff Deputies will crack down on illegals (Charlotte, NC) [INS certified]

Sheriff Deputies will crack down on illegals (Charlotte, NC) [INS certified]

"CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A federally funded program will train 10 sheriff's deputies in Mecklenburg County, giving them more power to identify, detain and remove illegal immigrants who go through the jail system.

After the four-week course, the deputies will be certified immigration officers.

'We, as local officials, can sit around and wring our hands and say, 'I wish someone would do something,'" Sheriff Jim Pendergraph said at a news conference Monday. "We're going to do something, and we're going to try and do our part.'"
.................................................. .................................................. ....

"'We hope it's going to stop (illegal immigration) from making a mockery of our criminal justice system,' said U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick, R-N.C., who also attended Monday's news conference."
.................................................. .................................................. ....

"'I don't think the average citizen realizes how much it costs the citizens of Mecklenburg County in criminal justice time, jail space,' the sheriff said."
.................................................. .................................................. ....

"Ken Gjertsen, a member of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg school board, doesn't expect the program to offer much relief to a school system that is seeing more and more students take part in English as a Second Language....

...'So is that going to have an impact on our costs or who we're teaching? Probably not.'"
.................................................. .................................................. ....

"Novant Health, which owns Presbyterian Hospital facilities, estimates that it spent more than $90 million on indigent and charity care in 2004."

[stlterp]

Yes, I would.

So, if not for your "illegal invaders," the growth would be managed and well under control? Are illegal immigrants part of the issue? Sure - but to assert that your "illegal invaders" are precisely the ones driving our infrastructure into the abyss is nothing more than hyperbole.

And BTW, not everyone in an ESL program in a school is an "illegal invader," nor is everyone who received free medical care at a hospital. There are plenty of "legal" residents, immigrants or not, who would fall into one or both of the above categories.

[Miker2069]

Lol, haven't heard the illegal invaders discussion (here) in a while!

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

Lol, haven't heard the illegal invaders discussion (here) in a while!

This thread IS veering off course for sure

The whole point was how the spread of section 8 housing throughout the city, is what has contributed to the crime now being spread throughout the city.

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by stlterp

Yes, I would.

So, if not for your "illegal invaders," the growth would be managed and well under control? Are illegal immigrants part of the issue? Sure - but to assert that your "illegal invaders" are precisely the ones driving our infrastructure into the abyss is nothing more than hyperbole.

And BTW, not everyone in an ESL program in a school is an "illegal invader," nor is everyone who received free medical care at a hospital. There are plenty of "legal" residents, immigrants or not, who would fall into one or both of the above categories.

You got me going back and forth on using, "precisely." We do indeed have a welfare system (Section 8, checks, food stamps, free health care, free schooling) that has burdened us tax payers for many decades, and it's not getting any better. Again, to use a previous term, "these people" have been and continue to overburden the infrastructure I have already discussed. However, we now have a new parameter to consider, and it's one that has been going on for decades as well, but today the problem is worse than it has ever been. And that problem is illegal immigration.

Both groups of people share a primary role in overburdening our system. On the one hand, we have a group of indigent people who are "native" to welfare. While this country has been able to "manage" over the years, the native indigents certainly burden the system. However, the new population of indigents is breaking into this country at an alarming rate, and our country nor our city of Charlotte will be able to sustain it forever. One group has always been there, and the other is sudden and the infrastructure is unable to adjust as efficiently and effectively.

I would compare it gas prices in the U.S. versus gas prices in Europe. Europeans were used to paying gas at $6 per gallon, so any fluctuation even up to $7 didn't affect their economy too drastically. On the flip side, when gas in the U.S. goes from $2 to $3 to $4 very rapidly, our economy cannot adjust efficiently. Now if gas had gone from $2 to $4 over a 10 year span, that would be plenty of time to adjust, but in a 2 year span, it heavily burdens our economy.

So, while both groups of indigents play primary roles in overburdening our infrastructure, I think I'm lead to stick by my original term, "precisely", for the sole reason that the crisis can be seen as a tidal wave and not a trickle. We have been able to adjust to "the natives", but the illegals come in such great numbers that they are causing the system to red line.