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View Poll Results: Would you favor a sales tax increase to fund transportation?
Yes- for development/faster rollout of light rail 12 26.09%
Yes- for completion/widening of I-485 2 4.35%
Yes- for both 12 26.09%
What, are you kidding? 20 43.48%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,665,198 times
Reputation: 797

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallisteve View Post
Let's fix it now while we simultaneously stay on the state's case to make things right.
So then what is the issue with toll roads? We can "fix it now" and stay on the powers that be's case to ensure no foul play comes about. No? Private funding will build the roads MUCH faster than any tax, especially at 1/2 cent .
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: NE Charlotte, NC (University City)
1,894 posts, read 5,721,338 times
Reputation: 1041
The problem would be that a dependency would develop on the tolls...just like the toll roads in Orlando. they were originally slated to stay open only until the roads were paid for...nearly 10 years ago. Here we are today with them still open (and in fact being "upgraded" to fast lane tolls) and plans to keep them open indefinitely in order to upkeep and upgrade the toll roads. This way, the state doesn't have to provide funding to the roads...they support themselves. Sounds great, but now it costs $5-$6 to drive round trip across town. The only other option is local streets and thoroughfares which double or triple your drive time.

You can write all the laws, rules, and restrictions you want...it won't matter when the politicians see what kind of revenue the tolls generate. They will NEVER terminate that sort of income. Chalk it up to greed or whatever else.

Let's also consider how long it takes to build a toll road (and the up front cost). Even if you convert an existing road, we're talking 1-2 years and millions of dollars.

Tolls roads are the anti-venom to the bite that we're trying to make here. I'd rather pay a half a penny on a few things that I buy rather than $30 a week in tolls.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,096,045 times
Reputation: 2323
jinksto, I understand what you mean. when I first left the city, I never wanted to look at public transportation again. however, after you have been out of there for awhile and after you pay $$$$ for gas/oil/maintenence on your car every month, not to mention when that same car is in the shop and you have absolutely no alternative....the CTA looks like heaven to you!!

I, for one, would LOVE to have the light rail up here in university city ASAP. It would give me the option to go to see my son in S. Charlotte without paying $10.00 for gas roundtrip, not to mention an easy commute to working downtown. Going to the airport would be so much easier, too...yes, I AM homesick for the CTA

I have been waiting since 1990 (when I moved here) for 485 to be finished...(and it still is NOT)...so, I am not holding my breath on that one. I don't care HOW that one gets done, toll roads, whatever...JUST DO IT!
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,096,045 times
Reputation: 2323
OK, guys, rode the light rail today for the first time! It was absolutely fantastic! It even went up in the air like the "L" (in Chicago) and I swear that the voice that announces the stations is the same one that is on the tube in London. all we were missing was "Mind the gap"...

CANNOT WAIT for it to come to University City!
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Old 08-01-2008, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,665,198 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallisteve View Post
The problem would be that a dependency would develop on the tolls...just like the toll roads in Orlando. they were originally slated to stay open only until the roads were paid for...nearly 10 years ago. Here we are today with them still open (and in fact being "upgraded" to fast lane tolls) and plans to keep them open indefinitely in order to upkeep and upgrade the toll roads. This way, the state doesn't have to provide funding to the roads...they support themselves. Sounds great, but now it costs $5-$6 to drive round trip across town. The only other option is local streets and thoroughfares which double or triple your drive time.

You can write all the laws, rules, and restrictions you want...it won't matter when the politicians see what kind of revenue the tolls generate. They will NEVER terminate that sort of income. Chalk it up to greed or whatever else.

Let's also consider how long it takes to build a toll road (and the up front cost). Even if you convert an existing road, we're talking 1-2 years and millions of dollars.

Tolls roads are the anti-venom to the bite that we're trying to make here. I'd rather pay a half a penny on a few things that I buy rather than $30 a week in tolls.
I've been meaning to get back to this thread to ask you: regarding toll roads and the potential for government to hijack its original intentions, is Orlando the exception or the norm?

IOW, Texas road construction seems to be flourishing and I'm unaware of any problems such as those you have mentioned. Are there are other cities that have influenced you to deem toll roads as the epitome of Govco greed?
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:39 AM
 
Location: NE Charlotte, NC (University City)
1,894 posts, read 5,721,338 times
Reputation: 1041
Having only lived in Orlando, I can't speak for anywhere else. I saw it happen in Orlando (a city with a very complex network of toll roads) and it just became the norm to everyone who drives on the roads. It's sad really...perfect definition of a sheople.

I do however have a little knowledge about traffic engineering and know that road construction is the epitome of "if you build it, they will come." Nearly all roads that are built today anywhere in teh country are at a failing level of service before the first shovel is stuck into the ground to build it. Urban sprawl is fueled by road construction...and until we're out of buildable land on every square inch of our continent, you'll never be able to build a road big enough to alleviate "traffic." So you'll be right back to square one every 5-10 years.

Mass transportation is better on so many (if not all) levels...it shouldn't even be a question of which one to build. A toll road is going to cost you $3-5 (one way) to drive across Meck county (assuming they'd put one here). Mass transit costs less than $2 one way.
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,665,198 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallisteve View Post

Mass transportation is better on so many (if not all) levels...it shouldn't even be a question of which one to build. A toll road is going to cost you $3-5 (one way) to drive across Meck county (assuming they'd put one here). Mass transit costs less than $2 one way.
The problem with that is we are 15-20 years away from having any kind of efficient mass transit system across the board.

Much like the need to drill for more oil WHILE we explore alternative energy sources, we need to implement immediate fixes (toll roads: 2-3 years) WHILE we build the mass transit (15-20 years). Your 1/2 cent sales tax is long term, we need short term and long term.

Thanks for replying.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:04 PM
 
5 posts, read 14,670 times
Reputation: 10
I voted yes to both, and i agree part of the problem does lie with legislators in Raleigh, but if they wont give us what we need out of spite or for what ever reason then we have to do it ourselves. 485 does need to completed and widened, and more money needs to be put into Lynx so that we get real subway trains or atleast efficient lightrail lines that go to the airport and other vital areas and all in meet at one central station in center city Charlotte.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:25 AM
 
Location: NE Charlotte, NC (University City)
1,894 posts, read 5,721,338 times
Reputation: 1041
We can't do subway...far too costly to tunnel it in now. It's light rail or nothing in terms of train transportarion in the densly populated and built out areas of town.
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:02 PM
 
Location: The 12th State
22,974 posts, read 58,435,099 times
Reputation: 14917
CATS promoted the new tax is needed so they will not cut current bus routes but looks like they are going to do it anyway after the tax has been installed
Downturn may force CATS to reduce bus, rail service | CharlotteObserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/417620.html - broken link)
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