What is the law? Shoot 'em or not? (Simpson: felons, houses)

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by Whytewulf

I didn't read the middle pages.. but why is every so amped up to shoot people. I understand they are criminals if they are stealing something, but not everyone is out to take your life. Defend yourself appropriatly but I for one would rather give up my life than risk taking the wrong life. Yes, I will will protect my family and friends with due diligence, but I don't go seeking it. Posessions are just that. Easily replaceable. If they want the Tv that bad, take it. I probably should read more anyway!

(and before anyone comments, "you have to be there to know", I have been through enough of these to experience in my lifetime and it will not change who I am)

Fair enough. But I don't think anyone here is talking about "seeking it". The point of all of this is, one doesn't know with 100% confidence what the intentions of an intruder are, or what they are capable of should they be caught red handed by the home owner.

There are rules, however. Those that have a proper understanding of the law, know that there are things you can do and things you can't. I, as a male, must feel my life is threatened before I can legally use deadly force. However, I can shoot a would-be intruder as they are breaking into my house without ever seeing a weapon. But once they are in, the rules change and my life must be endanger for me to use deadly force. Women on the other hand, don't have to be positive of imminent danger (i.e. see a weapon) because they are legally considered susceptible to sexual violence or worse.

You might want to go back and read through the thread to gain a better understanding. There's some good dialogue and most of us are responsible gun owners and would act appropriately in a given situation.

[Whytewulf]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

Fair enough. But I don't think anyone here is talking about "seeking it". The point of all of this is, one doesn't know with 100% confidence what the intentions of an intruder are, or what they are capable of should they be caught red handed by the home owner.

There are rules, however. Those that have a proper understanding of the law, know that there are things you can do and things you can't. I, as a male, must feel my life is threatened before I can legally use deadly force. However, I can shoot a would-be intruder as they are breaking into my house without ever seeing a weapon. But once they are in, the rules change and my life must be endanger for me to use deadly force. Women on the other hand, don't have to be positive of imminent danger (i.e. see a weapon) because they are legally considered susceptible to sexual violence or worse.

You might want to go back and read through the thread to gain a better understanding. There's some good dialogue and most of us are responsible gun owners and would act appropriately in a given situation.

I read several pages of them and it is not my understanding or lack of understanding at issue. I believe the original question had merit, to which it was answered. And most of the answers were correct about NC law (and it is different in every state). Though in reading through the responses you will see that some of your "responsible gun owners" were not responding in in what I would consider a "responsible" manner, yes some were in jest and for the sake of humor. As someone quite familiar with this, any time you take action, whether you think legal or not, there is a risk. Judges and Families have a way of seeing things differently. I could find you 100 cases of these going in the favor of the criminal (some so insane it makes you sick).

My point was not to question the law or those responses, but my point is "just because you can or just because it is legal should you?"

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by Whytewulf

I read several pages of them and it is not my understanding or lack of understanding at issue. I believe the original question had merit, to which it was answered. And most of the answers were correct about NC law (and it is different in every state). Though in reading through the responses you will see that some of your "responsible gun owners" were not responding in in what I would consider a "responsible" manner, yes some were in jest and for the sake of humor. As someone quite familiar with this, any time you take action, whether you think legal or not, there is a risk. Judges and Families have a way of seeing things differently. I could find you 100 cases of these going in the favor of the criminal (some so insane it makes you sick).

My point was not to question the law or those responses, but my point is "just because you can or just because it is legal should you?"

Sorry if you misunderstood. I wasn't saying you had a misunderstanding of the issue, but you said you didn't read the middle pages and I thought that you might get more insight into what was being hashed out if you did. No offense meant.

No argument there about "can" versus "should", but I "will" if necessary.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by anifani821

No one wants to kill someone else. It seems clear that the law states one can defend one's self but other than that . . . you can't do a thing. If someone does not have a weapon and is carrying objects out of your house, it appears you are gonna get indicted for homicide for killing them, and you may end up in jail. Who knows? It's a crazy world out there.

The alternative to using a firearm would be mace, if someone is on your property stealing objects (or ripping off an A/C or car). But dear me, I can just see myself running up to Big Mr. Bad Ass Criminal and saying "BAD BAD BAD. Here's what you get" and then trying to get a straight shot into his face w/ mace.

Now, more likely, if it were one guy, I would be swinging a baseball bat at him. But I believe whacking someone up side the head w/ an aluminum baseball bat would be considered deadly force . . . even tho no one would think (surely) that most females are gonna be able to hit much of a homerun at my age. I guess if you maim some thug, it would be up to the DA to decide how to call that one.

And as several others have mentioned - let's just say I did whack the creep and crack his skull. He probably has no health insurance, so the family is gonna sue me to pay for his medical bills. It is ludicrous, but that seems to be how our system works - we are so quick to protect the rights of the criminals in our society - and so slow to do a blame thing about the victims.

Ani, there's a disconnect in the system. Something happened in Philly last night that is a perfect example of the disconnect. I'm not certain if I can put it in here without it being considered off topic, so if people go to the website for WCAU or KYW TV & look for the report about the man impaled on the fence, it's pretty clear.

[Colddiamond102]

Originally Posted by anifani821

Now, we have had discussions about home invasions and what you can and cannot legally do to defend yourself and your family.

If you feel your life is threatened, you can shoot.

But another thread just brought this to mind . . . what if someone is outside your home and is tearing out your A/C unit . . . or is trying to jack your car? Can you shoot 'em or not? I cannot imagine just standing there and letting someone take my A/C apart, but the law seems to indicate (to me) that since they are outside, you don't have the right to shoot them cause they are not threatening bodily harm.

So what is the law? Any attorneys or LE on here who can advise what a homeowner should do? Cause I promise you, if someone is ripping out my A/C and I know it, I am gonna take the Mossberg outside and have a Come To Jesus Meeting.

LMAO! I wholeheartedly agree.

[Colddiamond102]

Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah

If you go outside to stop them taking the a/c unit, then you would be in fear of your life (at least me as a little old woman) when they turtned around to threaten you. Of course, the civil suit from their family might bankrupt you - that was covered in my CCW class, that criminal prosecution is not all you have to worry about!

Well, Im poor as a church mouse, so they (the family) couldnt get anything from me anyway! I dont even own my car. lol

[BrusselsSprouts]

Not sure of this was said anywhere else in this thread, but if you simply point a gun at someone, in or out of your house, it can be considered an assault. And, it changes the dynamic to one of the thief (if you can believe this) fearing for his/her life. On the other hand, if I could hold the thief, call the cops and have the thief arrested, I would take the assault charge (I have to believe most thieves would take the chance and run.)

A friend of mine, a police officer, told me something a long time ago; simply put, don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to use it, AND whatever is at the other end of a gun will be destroyed (that is, if you hit it.) There are some good books to consult on this subject. Also, if you're going to use a gun for self defense, you should take a course in gun ownership which includes details on how to maintain the gun, and what's at stake every time you use the gun. AND practice practice practice with it to become very familar with the feel of the gun under all types of situations. You want to make sure that IF you fire your gun, you hit what you intended to hit. In a panic situation, there is always a high chance of collateral damage.

[cynwldkat]

Hmmmm...this is pretty sad when we have to discuss if we can protect ourselves or our family and if we can protect those material items we have worked so hard to get. Maybe we all need bars over our windows (so if, God forbid, we have a fire in our home we find ourselves trapped inside) and electric fences around our yards. Dogs are good but of course we can also be sued if our dogs try to protect us. I would never "want" to hurt anyone but at the same time the very LAST thing I would want is someone to hurt my family! I refuse to let anyone make me live my life in fear---I will protect myself and my family. As far as those material items I own--maybe we just shouldn't try to find out!! Most likely I would warn but then I can not say what I would do if that did not work! I am the very last person who would hurt anything...most of the time!!

[Mike409]

Originally Posted by Whytewulf

I didn't read the middle pages.. but why is every so amped up to shoot people. I understand they are criminals if they are stealing something from your home or car; but not everyone is out to take your life. Defend yourself appropriatly but I for one would rather give up my life than risk taking the wrong life. Yes, I will will protect my family and friends with due diligence, but I don't go seeking it. Posessions are just that. Easily replaceable. If they want the Tv that bad, take it. I probably should read more anyway!

(and before anyone comments, "you have to be there to know", I have been through enough of these to experiences in my lifetime and it will not change who I am)

I will recommend that you DO read the middle pages before making such a post. You just made a blanket statement accusing EVERYONE who replied, that we get a kick out of shooting people.

EVERYONE is NOT amped to shoot people. Quit the opposite in fact. From the replys, it does appear that everyone is in agreement to protect our own lives and that of our family. I absolutely believe that not EVERY thief is looking to kill people, that is completely obvious. HOWEVER, it absolutely does happen. I've experienced it, more than a few times.

We are all in agreement, well maybe most are in agreement, that as firearm owners, we are to use great judgement in the use of weapons. That FIREARMS should be used to protect life, not property.

We should be able(choose) to protect our property without fear of serious physical injury or death. We should not have to hide in a closet as a thief pilfers our hard earned "stuff". We should not have to wait for the government to protect us, we should be able to protect ourselves.

Again, not advocating shooting someone over property, but if we attempt to protect our property and it's escalated by the thief, it may end in his/her demise. Life is about choices, if someone choses the wrong home, it may be the worst choice that person ever made. Then again, maybe not.

[Simpson12]

So great to live in the land of redneck.