What is the law? Shoot 'em or not? (Jackson: homes, to live)

[AmericanRoadGirl]

Carolina Guy, that is what I have been advised re the different sensibilities attributed to the male vs. female deal.

Have strong Castle Doctrine statute in South Carolina, signed into law in 2006. So... guess y'all could bring bodies down to my house if there is a problem.

[Metallisteve]

Moderator cut: no links to other forums, ty

This whole conversation personally stirs me up to want to get involved in ensuring better gun laws get passed in our great state.

[Mike409]

Originally Posted by flexysteve

My 2 cents. If you shoot. Shoot to kill, not to injure or warn.

2) Even if you're outside, claim (or prove) your life was threatened. You went to confront him and he came at you with a screwdriver and you shot him.

The key piece of info in all these cases is were the entrance wounds were. If they were in the back, then thats a tough sell in court.

Prosecutor; Mr.Steve, why did you shoot Mr. Jones?

Mr.Steve; He was threatening me with a knife.

Prosecutor; When you took your gun out, what was your intent?

Mr.Steve; Shoot to kill

Prosecutor; So, when you took your gun out, you had an intention to kill.

Mr.Steve; Yes

Prosecutor; To just end his life?



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Prosecutor; Mr. Steve, why did you shoot Mr. Jones?

Mr. Steve; He was threatening me a knife.

Prosecutor; When you took your gun out, what was your intent?

Mr. Steve; To stop the threat of Mr. Jones and his knife.

Prosecutor; Isn't it true that you intended to kill Mr. Jones?

Mr. Steve; No, I just wanted to stop him from threatening me. I didn't want
to be hurt or killed.

Prosecutor; But, he died anyway.

Mr. Steve; Apparently.

Prosecutor; Well, if your intent was to stop the threat, why didn't you shoot
him in the leg or arm?

Mr. Steve; Arms and legs are smaller and harder to hit, making it more likely I'll miss my target, possibly hitting an innocent person. My firearms training
teaches me to aim for center mass, the chest.

Prosecutor; Why is that?

Mr. Steve; Because it's a bigger target and more likely to stop the threat,
then the arm or leg.

Prosecutor; That's all your Honor.


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"Shoot to kill" sounds real bad to jury member. I've always been told your shooting to stop the threat. Sounds logical.

Shooting someone in the back? In most cases, that's bad. But, as I've posted in another thread, I have. To make a long story short; Bad guy was facing away from me with gun in his hand. He started to turn towards me, while lifting his arm and hand that he had the gun in. I shot him three times. Because he was not turned all the way around, rounds entered his back. I'm not waiting for him to get comfortable to shoot me. It didn't get any further then a grand jury.

[Mike409]

Originally Posted by Barkingowl

I like the way you make the concept easy to understand, Mike.

In layman's terms. I'm a layman.

[Mike409]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

Women are treated differently from men. If someone has broken into your house, as a woman you don't need to know the intentions of the intruder since you're at risk of sexual violence. But at the end of the day, man or woman, defend yourself with deadly force if necessary. You use your own judgment and worry about it later. Laws don't matter when your dead.

Right, on all counts!

Better to be tried by twelve, then carried by six.

[Mike409]

Originally Posted by anifani821

Hi, Mike!!! I have taken a course but it was a long time ago. And I thought I knew the answer (one cannot shoot a person unless one is being physically threatened, as I stated in my first post) but I thought it would be interesting to have a discussion and see what others would say . . . and I figured the castle doctrine would come up . . . and I thought it would be good to review that . . .

My understanding is - unless someone is physically threatening your life or that of a family member (or someone in your home) - you will be charged w/ homicide if you kill someone on your property. You may be charged w/ whatever is the equivalent of "justifiable" homicide (don't know if that is the right term) if it is obvious that the person had a weapon and was inside your premises and you feared for your life. That means, if someone is outside carrying off ANYTHING you own . . . you gotta let 'em walk. However, there are so many shades of "threat" - I would suppose that the DA would consider all those factors - such as there being 2 thugs, and one tearing something up like an A/C and one smashing in a window to enter your home. Each situation would depend on what actions it could be proven that the criminals took and how the homeowner responded - and if deadly force was necessary.

I wanted to see what others thought about this, what they understood the law to mean . . . I have a copy of the statutes and actually, have posted links to them here on this forum . . . but some things are rather vague, including what it means to be "concealing" a weapon in a car in NC.

What it gets down to is - you cannot exchange someone's life for a few possessions, regardless of the value of those possessions. That is what I was taught. If they are jacking your car, carrying off your silver, your TV, whatever - unless someone is standing there w/ a weapon in his/her hand - you can't do squat.

I wanted to hear others discuss that.

Everything you wrote is exactly what I have been taught.

I agree, it's a great discussion!

[flexysteve]

Originally Posted by Mike409

"Shoot to kill" sounds real bad to jury member. I've always been told your shooting to stop the threat..

Good point. I'll have to remember that. Being that I currently only have a shotgun loaded with 00 and 0 buck, in my case shooting to stop the threat and shooting to kill are usually one in the same.

Others on this forum and other forums mention warning shots or shooting in the leg. If you had time to warn or injure you weren't really in that much danger.

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by NCyank

Ok, I was more or less joking when I suggested dropping a bowling pin on a thief but there must be something between shooting to kill and just letting them walk off with your stuff. So you can't shoot and kill them (as long as they aren't threatening your life) but can you injure and retain them until the police arrive? So someone is lurking down the hall in your house...you have to wait to see if they have a weapon before you clobber them?? Stupid.

I have to agree with other posters...I liked living in Tx. Although we never owned a firearm I liked that if we had chosen too we could have used it to defend our lives as well as our property. It is too much a burden to put on innocent citezens to determine the 'intent' of a criminal who is on your property. So he doesn't have a gun or knife...that doesn't mean he isn't a threat. Some guy breaks into my house when DH is out of town...he is bigger than me, stronger than me....that means to me HE is the deadly weapon. He could steal my property or do unspeakable things without having a weapon!!

Oh, you have hit on the thing that bothers me w/ trying to figure out what to do in these situations!!!! We want to stop and intruder - first of all, stop them from harming us or our family/friends . . . and second, we want to protect our valuables.

But we can't shoot unless we are threatened. And the truth is - no one (except maybe a psychopath) relishes the thought of shooting someone else. We do it b/c we feel there is no other choice - it is a "them or us" feeling. They are going to kill or maim us so we strike out.

So . . . is there some middle ground? Well, several posters gave us links to types of tear gas or something that would incapacitate the aggressor. I have not checked to see what is legal or not legal, but frankly, would the DA come down on us so badly if we used something like that on our own property? I honestly do not know!

Some people have stun guns but you have to get close to someone to do that and look how many cases we have heard of in the last few months where people died after being hit w/ a stun gun.

We have discussed that we can't booby trap our property.

What can be done, short of shooting someone - or macing them?

[bibit612]

Originally Posted by AmericanRoadGirl

Carolina Guy, that is what I have been advised re the different sensibilities attributed to the male vs. female deal.

Have strong Castle Doctrine statute in South Carolina, signed into law in 2006. So... guess y'all could bring bodies down to my house if there is a problem.

LOL, ARG! I could trust you to manage to be funny and informative at the same time! I told hubby I am liking the no-nonsense attitude of SC over a lot of things and not worrying too much over political correctness! I guess the "Git it done!" mentality just might work.

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Originally Posted by anifani821

Oh, you have hit on the thing that bothers me w/ trying to figure out what to do in these situations!!!! We want to stop and intruder - first of all, stop them from harming us or our family/friends . . . and second, we want to protect our valuables.

But we can't shoot unless we are threatened. And the truth is - no one (except maybe a psychopath) relishes the thought of shooting someone else. We do it b/c we feel there is no other choice - it is a "them or us" feeling. They are going to kill or maim us so we strike out.

So . . . is there some middle ground? Well, several posters gave us links to types of tear gas or something that would incapacitate the aggressor. I have not checked to see what is legal or not legal, but frankly, would the DA come down on us so badly if we used something like that on our own property? I honestly do not know!

Some people have stun guns but you have to get close to someone to do that and look how many cases we have heard of in the last few months where people died after being hit w/ a stun gun.

We have discussed that we can't booby trap our property.

What can be done, short of shooting someone - or macing them?

That's why I have 3 large dogs and the smallest is a 60 lb AmStaff. If you come in my house without an invitation, you're nuts! With an invitation, they'll lick you to death.