U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-24-2008, 01:59 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,290 times
Reputation: 14

Advertisements

This is clearly a case of " keeping up with the Jones' ". There is more to this story. I don't want to see a family kicked out into the streets, but they needed to pay more attention to their finances! Two years of not paying a dime to the HOA is bull! Apparently, they didn't care about the neighbors that would have to make up for their non-paid dues. That is the problem with this country BUY, BUY, BUY-CRY,CRY,CRY! Everyone is going through tough times. Survival of the frugalist!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-27-2008, 06:14 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,147,441 times
Reputation: 521
Default All I can say is WOW

As this board’s sometime resident curmudgeon at large, I am amazed at how judgmental many of you are. We don’t know the whole story on these folks and the O article doesn’t go into as near as much detail as the Monroe paper did. From what I read, they moved here, and got their house at an ARM rate that probably means they didn’t have the best credit. The man was working construction and the wife was working also and had kids in daycare. Through unfortunate events, the man lost his construction job. I suspect this has something to do with the building downturn in the construction market, especially in the UC. He sold all his tools to pay bills and went to work for Home Depot. The wife turned up pregnant with number three and had some medical issues and couldn’t work. Wow, it sounds like they were living high on the hog there buddy. So they got their kids a trampoline and some toys, BFD. You see trampolines behind almost any house at any economic level and how do you know if they bought it brand new out of the box? Craig’s list has them regularly and in fact, I didn’t buy my kid’s trampoline new either.[

In the full article that ran in the Monroe paper it stated that the folks had better paying jobs in Florida (Dade county) but moved here because the quality of life is much better. Just like what all you boosters out there crow about when some northern transplant wants 411 on how nice it is here. The wife admitted that she didn’t read the 98 page HOA covenants and wasn’t aware that they could be foreclosed on. That’s an unfortunate mistake, but one that happens, especially to people that are new to home ownership. I’ve bought 4 houses, three of them in the UC and not once did my REA ever say, you need to read the HOA. They just handed it to me and make sure that I signed the doc that I got a copy.

These folks represent a lot of our neighbors that are getting thrown out of their homes for no reason or real fault of their own, except they wanted what we all want. They wanted a nice house for their kids, in a nice safe neighborhood. Isn’t that what we want? Isn’t that what we post about here on this very board? Yes, of course they got a bit over heads. But it happens. It is happening more and more every day folks. Look at the news, the banks made a TON of loans to people who barely could qualify and when the interest rates rose on their ARM these people couldn’t pay. Good or bad it has happened. Home ownership is a dream for every person out there working a job, whether they sweep floors or are CEOs. I worked my tail off to buy my first house. I sold almost everything I had, worked two jobs and as much overtime as I could get, just to scrape up a down payment. The interest rate on my first mortgage was double digits, but I made every payment. Some days I got paid on Thursday and was dead broke by Thursday afternoon. If I had gotten sick or laid off or my car broke or something like what happened to this family, I would have been sunk. Maybe you don’t know it, but there are way too many people out there one paycheck away from being on the street and many that are on the street are actually working.

As far as HOAs go here in NC, they should be banned. Or at a minimum they should never be allowed to take someone’s home away. This family’s neighbors also thought what was happening was pretty lame and put petitions together to get the HOA to take a milder stance. The HOA flatly refused to even accept the petitions. When the family offered $500 and payments, the HOA countered with “half now and half in 30 days”. Wow, that’s being neighborly. HOAs typically are nothing more than homeowner police squads that poke around in other people’s lives under the guise of “protecting” property values. That’s the biggest lie I’ve ever heard.

Those of you that come on here pontificating that you have no sympathy for these folks amaze me. That’s a fine Christian attitude to take. I’m not much of a church goer, but it doesn’t take Billy Graham to know that these folks need/needed help. Maybe they made some mistakes and maybe they got in over their heads, but the HOA is making one too. They have an opportunity to make their neighborhood something special; something that we all want in our neighborhood, real neighbors! Not just a bunch of people that happen to live in the same general vicinity, who are more concerned about whether or not the pool gets cleaned, than they are with a family’s life. I contacted Billy Ball of the Enquirer to find out how I could help these people out and hopefully he’ll come back soon with an idea. In the meantime, I hope that my family, or yours, never gets in this same type of situation.

Last edited by jlat; 09-27-2008 at 06:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,337,085 times
Reputation: 1008
JLAT - good points.

Remember that the banks are not making 'tons of money' on these subprime loans. If they did, then we wouldn't be in this crisis.
The banks are run by very ignorant people who won't even workout a payment plan so the borrower can repay the loan. The government had to 'intervene' to tell them to 'freeze' the 'adjusting rates'. Then when the home goes in foreclosure, the banks take forever to 'try' to sell it.
FHA alone takes 6-8 weeks just to LIST the property.

There's too many people in the government with 'degrees' that don't know how to run anything. Experience is what matters today, and I hope people vote accordingly in November.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 07:43 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,160,016 times
Reputation: 22373
JLAT - I understand what you are saying. I personally like homestead laws that exempt taking someone's home away even in bankruptcy . . . and I think use of mediation in a situation w/ HOA would be a much better way to handle things.

However, people used to make it a matter of integrity to PAY WHAT THEY OWE. Seems people now have excuses for not paying DEBT THEY INCURRED. And as far as not reading anything I sign - that is also plainly irresponsible. I never sign anything until I understand it. I don't care how long it holds up a process. I had an attorney (mine) get very rude w/ me in a closing b/c he felt I was taking too much time "reading the fine print." He told me I was holding up everyone's day. Well, turns out there was a MISTAKE on the deed and despite the attorney assuring me that "everything was fine" it WAS NOT. So I stopped the closing right there. This has happened to me TWICE, the other time being the TITLE INSURANCE COMPANY did not pick up the correct info. All the "experts" at the table missed it. So for anyone who is blindly signing ANY DOCUMENT, including your restaurant tab, without reading everything . . . wake up.

And finally, I know you meant well, but saying that this is not a "Christian attitude," may I remind you that even Jesus said "render under Caeser what is Caeser's . . . " wh/ to me, was an admonition to PAY WHAT YOU OWE, as a matter of civic responsibility and more importantly, a matter of character and responsibility to DEAL FAIRLY with those who have extended you credit or w/ whom you have a contract.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 08:15 AM
 
7,109 posts, read 9,733,988 times
Reputation: 2564
Default How deep are your pockets??

Perhaps the answer you get from Billy will be that your largess requires deeper pockets than your arm can reach.

Basically, I agreed with only the last line of your lenghty post. Reason being:
1) We don't (yet) live in a "one world society".
2) All members of a community have a responsibilty to each other so that the community lives and prospers.
3) We happen, so far, to live in a democratic society that live by the rule of law. Funny, isn't it, how some people would like to see the rule of law twisted and bent to fit the occassion. Not very Christian like as I am sure you will agree.
4) Everybody has a right to read the large print and the small print. Don't fret Ani, I walked out of a closing once because I didn't like what I saw. Told them to re-schedule but in the meantime I was going home to comtemplate my navel over paragragh 7line 6..bla, bla, bla.
5) Accountabilty. No need to say more.

In response to JLT post.

Last edited by pink caddy; 09-28-2008 at 08:17 AM.. Reason: quote of poster was not inserted
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 08:20 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,147,441 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
JLAT - I understand what you are saying. I personally like homestead laws that exempt taking someone's home away even in bankruptcy . . . and I think use of mediation in a situation w/ HOA would be a much better way to handle things.

However, people used to make it a matter of integrity to PAY WHAT THEY OWE. Seems people now have excuses for not paying DEBT THEY INCURRED. And as far as not reading anything I sign - that is also plainly irresponsible. I never sign anything until I understand it. I don't care how long it holds up a process. I had an attorney (mine) get very rude w/ me in a closing b/c he felt I was taking too much time "reading the fine print." He told me I was holding up everyone's day. Well, turns out there was a MISTAKE on the deed and despite the attorney assuring me that "everything was fine" it WAS NOT. So I stopped the closing right there. This has happened to me TWICE, the other time being the TITLE INSURANCE COMPANY did not pick up the correct info. All the "experts" at the table missed it. So for anyone who is blindly signing ANY DOCUMENT, including your restaurant tab, without reading everything . . . wake up.

And finally, I know you meant well, but saying that this is not a "Christian attitude," may I remind you that even Jesus say "render under Caeser what is Caeser's . . . " wh/ to me, was an admonition to PAY WHAT YOU OWE, as a matter of civic responsibility and more importantly, a matter of character and responsibility to DEAL FAIRLY with those who have extended your credit or w/ whom you have a contract.
Ani I have a lot of respect for you on this board, and I admire the great advice you hand out to people here, but I think this time we'll just have to agree to disagree. I certainly never implied that this family should shirk their responsibilities. They should pay what they owe, no one is debating that. In fact, I believe that they did try and make some effort to pay, but the HOA slammed the door in their face.

My take is that things do happen that go beyond our control. People live closer to the edge of poverty than they ever have. Yes sometimes people do live beyond their means. But sometimes they do their best, work hard and still get dealt a low blow. In this case, I think it is a bit of both. For those of us that come on this board (including you) and judge these people is just not right. I believe the passage is judge not least ye be judged, but I could be mistaken. There's a plethora of blame to go around here. REAs, mortgage writers, bankers and the HOA all had their hands in this family’s failure. To heap the blame solely on these people's shoulders is inexcusable. We've walked not one centimeter in these people's shoes so we have no clue what they were up against. If it were me, my first priority would be to take care of my children, as I am positive it would be yours. I am not dismissing them of any of their wrong doings; all I am saying is that a chain of unfortunate events led them to where they are today; a situation that any of us could find ourselves in. I believe that we should reserve and withhold our judgment and do what we can to help our neighbors when situations like this occur, and pray to our chosen deity that we never have to face the same burdens.

Still your pal

j:lat
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 09:18 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,160,016 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlat View Post
Ani I have a lot of respect for you on this board, and I admire the great advice you hand out to people here, but I think this time we'll just have to agree to disagree. I certainly never implied that this family should shirk their responsibilities. They should pay what they owe, no one is debating that. In fact, I believe that they did try and make some effort to pay, but the HOA slammed the door in their face.

My take is that things do happen that go beyond our control. People live closer to the edge of poverty than they ever have. Yes sometimes people do live beyond their means. But sometimes they do their best, work hard and still get dealt a low blow. In this case, I think it is a bit of both. For those of us that come on this board (including you) and judge these people is just not right. I believe the passage is judge not least ye be judged, but I could be mistaken. There's a plethora of blame to go around here. REAs, mortgage writers, bankers and the HOA all had their hands in this family’s failure. To heap the blame solely on these people's shoulders is inexcusable. We've walked not one centimeter in these people's shoes so we have no clue what they were up against. If it were me, my first priority would be to take care of my children, as I am positive it would be yours. I am not dismissing them of any of their wrong doings; all I am saying is that a chain of unfortunate events led them to where they are today; a situation that any of us could find ourselves in. I believe that we should reserve and withhold our judgment and do what we can to help our neighbors when situations like this occur, and pray to our chosen deity that we never have to face the same burdens.

Still your pal

j:lat
JLAT - yes, still pals for sure! And I agree - one shouldn't judge others, but this thread was about just that: judging the fairness of the situation. I stand on that "non-judgment" soap box often (so perhaps that makes me a hypocrite) . . . just goes to show how some issues bring out my tendency to be judgmental when it comes to financial responsibilities - b/c I believe in contracts and obligations . . . and get upset when others don't live up to a contract.

Despite what I posted about personal responsibility, I do believe that mercy is often more important than justice. That is why I feel that homestead laws should protect a person from losing his/her home, even in bankruptcy. However, along w/ that protection should be mediation to remediate what a person owes, restructure debt . . . you bought it, you should have to pay for it. HOA dues are an obligation and a contract . . . but they shouldn't be the factor that puts one in the situation of losing one's home . . . those payments should be negotiated. However, the homeowner ignored the situation instead of stepping up and trying to negotiate the situation.

I have been in a terrible situation myself at one point. It can happen to anyone. I had made no bad decisions . . . I had made no big purchases that put me into debt. Job loss, educational expenses and medical expenses just put me over the line. Not enuff income coming in to offset what I was obligated to pay every month. All it takes is losing your job and not being able to replace it at the same salary - for a year.

However, I worked w/ my creditors and when things were straightened out, despite taking three years to do that, I had maintained an excellent credit rating, avoided bankruptcy, still owned my property (including being current on HOA dues, LOL), made sure all 3 kids got their college diplomas . . . and lived up to every responsibility I had - and paid off every creditor 100%. Still paying on education loans, LOL.

I guess my point is . . . if you are a responsible person, you contact people and work it through. You get innovative. If you have to borrow money at a high interest rate, you do it. If you have to get two jobs, you do it. If you have to sell off things you treasure, you do it. If you have to eat beans and rice, you do it. You do whatever you have to do.

I have had to do all those things . . . So perhaps that is why I sound rather hard (and unsympathetic) about all this.

I agree . .. there have been predatory lenders. But I still say . . . I am aghast at how people have taken out mortgages around $300,000 on $50-65,000 salary a year. I don't care what some third party says you can afford . . . you can only afford what you can pay comfortably . . . and part of that is knowing what you can pay if your world falls apart tomorrow and you have to take extraordinary measures to meet your household expenses. That is why I say - personal responsibility is the issue. Just cause a car salesman says I can afford to lease that BMW for $799/mo . . .doesn't mean I should sign on the dotted line.

I guess what needs to happen in this country is to educate people about credit - responsible use of credit, terms of credit, terms of repayment . . . how to budget . . . I don't know. Seems to me having good judgment is also dependent on being a responsible, educated person . . . b/c the bottom line is always the bottom financial line . . . you gotta pay for your obligations.

And yes, an ounce of mercy is worth more than a pound of flesh.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Trinity Florida
7,930 posts, read 17,791,402 times
Reputation: 1997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tober138 View Post
You want to see HOAs banned so that, "nobody is forced to pay for something that they don't use nor care about." But the truth is it is already that way. No one is forced to pay for an HOA - if you don't want one, don't move to a community that has one. That seems pretty simple to me.

Your solution is to take away options from potential buyers. Is this because:
a) You think people are too stupid to make grown-up decisions for themselves?
b) You are so highly enlightened that you know what is best for everyone?

As I've stated before, I like having an HOA. When I went shopping for my first home in Baltimore a few years ago, I looked at communities that had one as well as ones who did not. I can tell you that every single non-HOA community I looked at had at least a few properties that looked horrible and under-maintained - no exceptions. The HOA communities were pretty much the opposite. If my neighbor has a junkyard in his front lawn, why should I have to take responsibility for calling 311 and having to deal with it? I'm glad to pay someone to take care of that service for me. If the HOA mows my lawn, takes care of my landscaping and keeps out the riff-raff, its money well spent in my book. And no one "forced" me to pay for it; I looked at the covenants, looked at the fees, and made a decision about whether or not I would have an issue with living in my community - and I did that all by myself.
Perfectly said, as ITA again this is why we bought in a community like this, We love the amenities it offers and having an HOA doesnt bothers us so why should we be penalized for those who dont want one..and I agree that if you have a choice, if you dont care about amenities then dont move into a Planned Community that has one.Having HOA's.Banned is a bit much as you do have an option where to live...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: MN
1,669 posts, read 5,600,712 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoagie58 View Post
As a banker, how do you sleep at night, charging someone 13% interest?
Wasn't that considered an "average" mortgage interest rate at one point? 80's maybe? I seem to remember my parents being very happy to refinance at something like 10% when I was younger.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2008, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Lake Wylie, SC
622 posts, read 1,587,377 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by moving123456 View Post
Wasn't that considered an "average" mortgage interest rate at one point? 80's maybe? I seem to remember my parents being very happy to refinance at something like 10% when I was younger.
Actually the average interest rate was 16-18% with a substantial downpayment (my first home). To me, things look pretty good now!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top