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Old 01-10-2011, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Western North Carolina
4,922 posts, read 7,855,801 times
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Well, you're absolutely right, there is the other side of the coin. People lose jobs when businesses close. Vendors and suppliers lose business, and right on down the line. I guess I was just trying to put some reasons out there why I feel there are so many empty retail/office spaces around and restaurant and upscale shop failures these days.

Good luck to you, it's people like you that do still have business coming in that should be getting the help - not the big shots who caused their own failures through mis-management. I"m afraid things are going to get a lot worse before they ever get better.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,019,674 times
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Another one bites the dust - Kenneth Cole in Southpark Mall. I wonder what they will replace it with. $1.99 jewelry? The biggest problem with these closings is that its going to be difficult if not impossible to fill their spaces with anything worthwhile.

It looks like 2011 is shaping up to be another 2008 economically.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:43 PM
 
Location: South Charlotte
403 posts, read 764,521 times
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montanamom.........Thank you for your comments.....I really think that you are right also.....you made some very good points. I am sure that others feel that way too.
I know what you mean about the Big Shots borrowing to keep up their life style...and at the same time mismanaging their business. We never had time to try to keep up with the Jones...nor did we want to. We have been in business for two decades....and always made sure that our employees were paid first....I think that was a no-no in some of our mismanaging...as we didn't take care of "us".....we didn't put back enough from the beginning...and should have had better skills in managing what we did have. I know that we are hoping against hope that we will find some answers to help us keep our business....but I really fear that it is almost too late....one way or another we will find out what we need to do...to hopefully keep it open. Ohhh, one nice thing about our business...is that everyone seemingly liked our customer service...but maybe we just bent over backwards too many times.
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:18 PM
 
1,554 posts, read 2,924,507 times
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2011 is going to be another 2008 because Kenneth Cole closed? I was at Southpark all day on Saturday. It was jam packed and people were buying. There were lots of lines and no parking spaces. Watch the hyperbole. If Kenneth Cole closed it's because they were not priced and stocked for the current market. Juicy is another ridiculous retailer that's going to have to face reality. $200 for a velour track suit is very 2006. In fact, a few of the retailers over by Kenneth Cole (the Miracle Mile of an already upscale mall) might be in trouble. That was the only area that wasn't packed but maybe they don't require as much volume as say, "Delia's". Viva la Juicy.
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Crown Town
2,742 posts, read 5,988,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Another one bites the dust - Kenneth Cole in Southpark Mall. I wonder what they will replace it with. $1.99 jewelry? The biggest problem with these closings is that its going to be difficult if not impossible to fill their spaces with anything worthwhile.

It looks like 2011 is shaping up to be another 2008 economically.
Along with the vast majority of resturants in this thread, there are also tons of "national closures"...such as Kennth Cole. They're closing stores all over the country, including places like Chicago and San Franciso. The South Park store is a closure none-the-less, but it really doesn't speak much about Charlotte, more so the health of Kennth Cole's national brand. And the way things are going at South Park, they won't have any problems filling that spot.
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,019,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckles34 View Post
2011 is going to be another 2008 because Kenneth Cole closed? I was at Southpark all day on Saturday. It was jam packed and people were buying. There were lots of lines and no parking spaces. Watch the hyperbole. If Kenneth Cole closed it's because they were not priced and stocked for the current market. Juicy is another ridiculous retailer that's going to have to face reality. $200 for a velour track suit is very 2006. In fact, a few of the retailers over by Kenneth Cole (the Miracle Mile of an already upscale mall) might be in trouble. That was the only area that wasn't packed but maybe they don't require as much volume as say, "Delia's". Viva la Juicy.
No Kenneth Cole is just one of a slew of closings. 2008 wasn't bad just because Sharper Image closed. That was just one of a multitude of businesses that closed or downsized that year. We might be seeing another time like that.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Western North Carolina
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I think my point was really that the "price is no object" or even "higher priced is better and always means you have more class" mentality is what is going away. There has to be a VALUE exchange in most consumers' minds these days in order for them to become REPEAT customers. The value can be simply a low price, a superior quality in RELATION to a higher price asked, or exceptional service provided along with the product that makes the product or service seem fair and in line with the price asked.

Average earners are still the majority these day, and most have felt their wages stagnate in recent years. The "trickle down" theory didn't work so well, in case anyone hasn't noticed. Getting your money's worth and feeling that your expenditures are justified have become much more important these days. I'm not saying that's good for the economy, I'm saying that is the way it is, and why so many high-end businesses in certain areas are closing.

Until the fat-cats and politicians realize that investment in the front-line, currently low to average wage earners in this country is the ONLY true way to stimulate our economy, things will never get better. I mean honestly, what can people buy working part-time jobs for $7.25 or so an hour?
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:07 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,145,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montanamom View Post
I think my point was really that the "price is no object" or even "higher priced is better and always means you have more class" mentality is what is going away. There has to be a VALUE exchange in most consumers' minds these days in order for them to become REPEAT customers. The value can be simply a low price, a superior quality in RELATION to a higher price asked, or exceptional service provided along with the product that makes the product or service seem fair and in line with the price asked.

Average earners are still the majority these day, and most have felt their wages stagnate in recent years. The "trickle down" theory didn't work so well, in case anyone hasn't noticed. Getting your money's worth and feeling that your expenditures are justified have become much more important these days. I'm not saying that's good for the economy, I'm saying that is the way it is, and why so many high-end businesses in certain areas are closing.

Until the fat-cats and politicians realize that investment in the front-line, currently low to average wage earners in this country is the ONLY true way to stimulate our economy, things will never get better. I mean honestly, what can people buy working part-time jobs for $7.25 or so an hour?
Right now, the schism between classes is bigger than ever. High end businesses as well as other businesses are closing because they are afraid to invest, innovate or purchase substantial inventories. As the sitting government does more to redistribute wealth, it is creating a bigger gap between those that have and those that don't (note I did not say people that need). Trickle down economics indeed did work and led to over 20+ years of economic growth that probably will never be achieved in this country again. People went to work, because your so called fat cats were able to create jobs, cut prices and increase demand for goods and services. Did they profit? ; Absolutely. Did they put profits back into businesses to create more jobs? Absolutely. Anyone with a retirement account, a 401k, or a stock plan where they worked, profited too; although many have forgotten that. But right now things have done a complete 180. The sitting government is totally pro union and anti-business, thinking it knows better how to spend our money than the private sector. It is refueling the nanny state mentality of the late 60s and early 70s and we all know how that turned out (look up the Carter years).

I worked minimum wage jobs, typically more then one, to make rent and bills. I also did everything I could to learn more; go to school when I could or learn on my own when I couldn't and continued to work myself out of the minimum wage bucket. It took a while, but I got there. Now, I am being told that I should be somehow be guilty and my family and my children should not benefit from the 40+ years of my hard and honest work. The results of long hours, my financial risks and hard work should instead be given away to those that want it (note I did not say need) and I somehow should feel that it is perfectly fine.

When businesses feel that they can reinvest, without having the government penalize them at every turn, we will recover from this mess. Until then, pull out some history books and read about the US economy from about 1969-1980, the parallels are pretty shocking.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,465,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montanamom View Post
I think it's all due to way-over saturation, and the final death nell of the "yuppie life" that started somewhere in the '80's, and is just adjusting back to reality now. The economy stinks now, that's true, but consumers are also getting smarter and more informed....Most people who are GENUINELY wealthy don't waste their money foolishly. The rest are just not able to borrow the money to support their "live beyond your means/look rich even if you're not" lifestyles anymore.
I think this is where you kind of hit the nail on the head. For too long, too many people were living beyond their means and buying products that they could not reasonably afford. Although I do not think that the "mentality" (as you put it in another post) has really changed, but rather that reality has changed - that many people who did once spend more than they could afford are simply finding that they are unable to maintain that lifestyle.

That said, I do not think that this is the death-knell for higher-end retail, but you will see a scaling back at stores, restaurants, etc. that typically carry higher-priced items as their clientele shrinks down to those who can realistically afford to patronize these places. And there are still plenty of folks like that. Yes, this economy stinks, but there are also a lot of people who are still doing fairly well for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by montanamom View Post
- What can they REALLY do to that steak to make that plate of dinner worth $50.00? Put some fancy "squiggly" lines of different kinds of sauces all over the plate?
- Why is one bottle of beer the cost of an entire six pack of the same brand at the grocery store?
- Why pay for "high-end", designer clothing, when it's still all now made overseas in the sweat shops anyway? Does anyone really know, or give a care, that you spent $300.00 on that sweater made in Bangladesh?
- That book for $25.00 at the fancy bookstore with the $6.00 coffees and $5.00 muffins? You can order one in used, good condition off the internet for about $10.00.
At the risk of sounding like a snob, the truth is that a steak from, say, Capital Grille or BLT Steak, is a world apart from a steak at Applebees. Same with clothes to some extent - yes, at some point just paying for the label is silly, but there is something to be said for quality in relation to price. A higher-priced suit from an upscale store is going to be of better quality than one from, say, Walmart.

In the end - there is nothing inherently wrong with someone paying for a $100 dinner or an $800 suit. The problem is when people who cannot afford to spend that kind of money behave like they can.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:45 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,415,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tober138 View Post
At the risk of sounding like a snob, the truth is that a steak from, say, Capital Grille or BLT Steak, is a world apart from a steak at Applebees. Same with clothes to some extent - yes, at some point just paying for the label is silly, but there is something to be said for quality in relation to price. A higher-priced suit from an upscale store is going to be of better quality than one from, say, Walmart.

In the end - there is nothing inherently wrong with someone paying for a $100 dinner or an $800 suit. The problem is when people who cannot afford to spend that kind of money behave like they can.
I have learned the hard way that I get what I pay for. I have also learned the hard way not to spend outside of my means.

I would much rather have one nice pair of shoes that lasts for years and stays in style rather than 5 pair of trendy shoes that need to be replaced every year.

While this economy stinks, I do think REALLY important lessons are being learned...by everyone. Things will get back to normal, eventually, but normal will be redefined a little bit.

Last edited by jayhawks91; 01-11-2011 at 01:46 PM.. Reason: wording
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