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Old 11-25-2008, 12:44 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,186,293 times
Reputation: 22375

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
bandibadji - I think that you have overestimated the generosity of CMS. The starting salary of CMS teachers is about $30K. Plus if they have spouses and family, they have to pay for their health benefits, which is unheard of in the Northeast. In NJ, where I'm originally from most of the towns now have starting salaries over $50K and it is extremely difficult to get a teaching job. There are no "job fairs" because they don't need them! The only way to get a teaching job is if you "know" someone on the BOE or you're related to the mayor. But we do pay those outrageous taxes!
Em, I ran across an article about the declining tax base in NJ and how that is gonna affect services . . . just wonder how that is going to play out, over time. I would think that is going to affect such things as services in schools and teacher pay, etc.
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:17 PM
 
414 posts, read 1,148,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
I'm not looking to defend the bills_fan post - definitely not as I am a Jets fan. However, I believe those who are jumping on the "union comment about Charlotte" are missing the key point... The person was/is a teacher. It's likely a very specific editorial on the teaching profession and unions, which is a very different discussion then unions in tradeskills. A teacher is going to be pro-union simply because of the benefits they see the union provides in other states (contract negotiation, TENURE, etc). Logic is that a bills_fan is from NY and NY has a very powerful teaching union. In that context, I can understand to some extent the union comment. The comments on those in the South on work ethic are out of line... bordering on laughable.

Actually, they are not that much different. Unions DESTROYED the northern states. I saw it firsthand. My father was a steel worker, my uncles in the auto industry (GM). Eventually, unions drove salaries so high, that the employees were soon to expensive to keep. Cost of doing business escalated, and businesses shut down. School districts in the north are facing the exact same problems today that industries faced a decade or so ago. Just watch, serious changes are on the way for unionized teachers in northern states. It won't be pretty.

That all said, I don't see how anyone can argue that the school system in CMS needs work. Especially when you consider how high the level of education is at the secondary level in NC. It's right on point highlighting an issue in the Charlotte area.
Sure it does. Every school district does. But, CMS get's a very bad, often undeserving, rap. The truth is, CMS is a very large school district. That's the biggest problem right there. People let a few bad apples spoil the whole cart.

In most cities. the city schools are one big district (a city district). The surrounding suburbs are localized, individual districts. The city schools perform poorly, while the suburban schools perform well above standards. The only difference with CMS is that it is one big school district. The city schools still score poorly and the suburban schools do well (see: Ardrey Kell, Providence, Butler, etc.) Truly it is really no different than any other urban area in the country.

If you divided the district into two districts: Charlotte City Schools (center city core) and Meck. County Schools (outer core), you'd see that there are many great schools in the region.
My responses are in red.
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:22 PM
 
549 posts, read 1,565,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Em, I ran across an article about the declining tax base in NJ and how that is gonna affect services . . . just wonder how that is going to play out, over time. I would think that is going to affect such things as services in schools and teacher pay, etc.
Pension and post retirement benefit liabilities are going to drive many a northeastern state into bankruptcy. Bet on it.
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:26 PM
 
414 posts, read 1,148,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bills_fan View Post
Let me quess - trust funded and never had to work for anything!!

Why is it that most of the employed teachers are from Michigan, Ohio, and New York? Gaston and Mecklenburg counties are so needy for teachers that they hire drug dealers and other criminals. The best part of NC is gaining experience and moving back to the North where the salaries are better. The cost of living in Charlotte is not as cheap as everyone says.

Actually, sorry, but no. The last thing a northern school district is looking to do right now is hire a teacher with experience. Incase you haven't noticed, the morthern states are losing population by the masses, thus they are facing gigantic economic issues in northern schools. That means, salary cut backs, layoffs and restructuring. The last thing they want to do is hire someone with teaching experience. Experience equals more money. The few people that are remaining are getting fed up with astronomical taxes.
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:14 PM
Status: "North of Palm Trees, South of High Taxes" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Noth Caccalacca
5,610 posts, read 6,698,534 times
Reputation: 4918
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Em, I ran across an article about the declining tax base in NJ and how that is gonna affect services . . . just wonder how that is going to play out, over time. I would think that is going to affect such things as services in schools and teacher pay, etc.
ani - I suspect you're right! NJ has an unfunded pension liability of anywhere between $48 billion and $75 billion depending on whose numbers are used. The taxpayers can only take so much!

Palmetto Heel - That's a bet I'd be willing to take! One of my NY friends gets an $80K pension and very generous health benefits. I bet only a handful of NC civil servants gets a pension like that! I may be jealous, but I'd suspect my federal pension is safer - at least they can print money!
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:31 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,186,293 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
ani - I suspect you're right! NJ has an unfunded pension liability of anywhere between $48 billion and $75 billion depending on whose numbers are used. The taxpayers can only take so much!

Palmetto Heel - That's a bet I'd be willing to take! One of my NY friends gets an $80K pension and very generous health benefits. I bet only a handful of NC civil servants gets a pension like that! I may be jealous, but I'd suspect my federal pension is safer - at least they can print money!
I had no idea about the pension liability. That is sobering, indeed.
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:33 PM
 
549 posts, read 1,565,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
Palmetto Heel - That's a bet I'd be willing to take! One of my NY friends gets an $80K pension and very generous health benefits. I bet only a handful of NC civil servants gets a pension like that! I may be jealous, but I'd suspect my federal pension is safer - at least they can print money!
Exactly! These states and municipalities made a bunch of promises to retirees in the good times that they simply can't afford to meet now. A lot of that has to do with rising healthcare costs but that's another thread. The bottom line is that they won't meet their obligations without substantially raising taxes.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:42 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,992 posts, read 27,287,306 times
Reputation: 9019
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
bandibadji - I think that you have overestimated the generosity of CMS. The starting salary of CMS teachers is about $30K. Plus if they have spouses and family, they have to pay for their health benefits, which is unheard of in the Northeast. In NJ, where I'm originally from most of the towns now have starting salaries over $50K and it is extremely difficult to get a teaching job. There are no "job fairs" because they don't need them! The only way to get a teaching job is if you "know" someone on the BOE or you're related to the mayor. But we do pay those outrageous taxes!
You forgot one thing, Emissary, if they aren't in sombody's pocket, they're in somebody's bed. Many years ago, I lost out on a teaching job although I had the best qualifications & was requested by the dept. head. The woman who got the job had no credentials except the horizontal variety (She eventually admitted it to the dept head when she & the principal were walked in on accidentally by the department head.
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Old 11-25-2008, 10:59 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,276,935 times
Reputation: 2784
Why would anyone have to put out to get a job teaching? Maybe in today's situation where there are too many teachers for the number of jobs, but especially not "many" years ago. That doesn't make any sense.
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:10 AM
Status: "North of Palm Trees, South of High Taxes" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Noth Caccalacca
5,610 posts, read 6,698,534 times
Reputation: 4918
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Why would anyone have to put out to get a job teaching? Maybe in today's situation where there are too many teachers for the number of jobs, but especially not "many" years ago. That doesn't make any sense.
That is a situation that probably occurs much less frequently in CMS, where nearly a third of new teachers quit within a couple of years, but in places where a teaching job is like "gold in the bank", some people will do anything to get a foothold in the door. In places like NJ & NY if you didn't "know someone" even as far back as 40 years ago, your chances of getting a teaching job where you wanted might have been very slim. Having an Uncle or Aunt or brother in a position of power in a town, might make the difference between working in a nice school or being stuck in the crappy one, three towns away. Who you know in NJ can make a big diffrence in where you teach. I bet it is probably true in CMS, but not to the degree it is in most of the Northeast.

It was always much easier to get a teaching job in the major cities as opposed to the well-off suburbs. As we've seen over the last few days, very few people want to teach in what they perceive to be the "ghetto". This is true no matter where you teach. Most of the new teachers tend to get stuck in the worst schools and end up doing their "penance" for several years until they have enough seniority to move elsewhere or quit and go into a non-teaching career.

As I've said in previous posts relating to the title thread, the Charlotte area will continue to attract teachers although they will be "retired ones" from the NE and California, who just need to sell their homes. As soon as the housing markets recover to the degree they can, the transplants will be rolling back in again. Despite their "perceived flaws" or "perceived virtues" the major metro areas of Charlotte, Raleigh and to a lesser degree, the Coastal areas of NC will continue to draw in new residents.
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