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Old 11-17-2008, 09:26 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,793 posts, read 27,055,545 times
Reputation: 8884

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Having experienced the best & the worst of unions, I have very mixed feelings on them. The local that I worked under for the longest time did advocate for the workers & never promoted getting paid to do as little as possible. There is a reason for them in broadcasting. This fit with the way that I was brought up, that if the employer was fair & treated people well & fairly, there is no reason to have them.

I busted my a$$ for years working 8 -17 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week, & all holidays, frequently with no fixed schedule being flipped around the clock. If I can avoid a union, at this point in my life, I'll be very happy to do just that, if not, oh, well.

I was brought up that midwesterners were a lot like southerners & I come from a long line of farmers, & most of them also had trades & some came from some of the very early southern lines.

Making posts that slam the locals is totally out of line.
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:36 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,920,434 times
Reputation: 22369
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Having experienced the best & the worst of unions, I have very mixed feelings on them. The local that I worked under for the longest time did advocate for the workers & never promoted getting paid to do as little as possible. There is a reason for them in broadcasting. This fit with the way that I was brought up, that if the employer was fair & treated people well & fairly, there is no reason to have them.

I busted my a$$ for years working 8 -17 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week, & all holidays, frequently with no fixed schedule being flipped around the clock. If I can avoid a union, at this point in my life, I'll be very happy to do just that, if not, oh, well.

I was brought up that midwesterners were a lot like southerners & I come from a long line of farmers, & most of them also had trades & some came from some of the very early southern lines.

Making posts that slam the locals is totally out of line.
Totally understand your sentiments, Southbound. There are pros and cons to Unions (and that often has to do w/ the industry you are in). Unions were started to protect workers and they were definitely needed at the turn of the 20th Century. And in many underdeveloped countries - Unions could protect abuses such as child labor.

OP wants to know if the transplants will keep coming. To me, this all depends on two factors: either getting a job and moving here or coming here to establish a business.

People who come here expecting guaranteed wages and benefits b/c they belong to a Union need to stop at the Mason Dixon line and make a U-turn.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:11 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,793 posts, read 27,055,545 times
Reputation: 8884
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Totally understand your sentiments, Southbound. There are pros and cons to Unions (and that often has to do w/ the industry you are in). Unions were started to protect workers and they were definitely needed at the turn of the 20th Century. And in many underdeveloped countries - Unions could protect abuses such as child labor.

OP wants to know if the transplants will keep coming. To me, this all depends on two factors: either getting a job and moving here or coming here to establish a business.

People who come here expecting guaranteed wages and benefits b/c they belong to a Union need to stop at the Mason Dixon line and make a U-turn.
Ani, I was not reacting to your posts, because I think that they were right on the money. You get it.

You know what my plans are, & with some luck I will be able to avoid the screenwriters union, & the rest, but in the mean time, I'll take what I can get.

I just plain resented those posts about the locals because they reflect on me & other transplants. To add to it, it also reflects on my midwestern heritage & all who came before me.

I'm here for a lot of reasons & lord knows that economics are a part of it, but only a part. I'm a firm believer in blending in. I will be living with natives out here, not a bunch of transplants, & in spite of posts to the contrary, the people out here are nice as can be.

There's no reason for people to come here with the intention of turning this area into what they left. They left for a reason, be it job transfer or other reasons, they voluntarily left. There's nothing wrong with bringing businesses with them, like the ever-present pizza parlors that show up in the threads here, or tossing out ideas of something that might make an improvement, but there's just no excuse for trashing the locals.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:13 AM
 
305 posts, read 658,055 times
Reputation: 216
To get back to the original question, we live in NY (don't throw anything!) and are still considering a move to Charlotte for several reasons, mostly for a better quality of life for our family. We knew at some point we'd have to leave the NY area because it has become too expensive and wanted to find a place where we'd feel comfortable. We have friends who were transferred here several years ago and love it & they had been urging us for years to come visit. They figured once we visited we'd be hooked!
We did visit and did like the area compared to several other places we have "scouted" as potential relocation spots. We have spent the past 2 years researching the job market, real estate market, schools, etc. including several trips to look at houses. So, yes, we are 2 NYers who are still considering moving to Charlotte, crummy economy & all. We're pretty likable people, we throw great parties and we know how to bake all those Italian pastries! Hope you'll let us in.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Union County
5,777 posts, read 8,395,867 times
Reputation: 4813
I'm not looking to defend the bills_fan post - definitely not as I am a Jets fan. However, I believe those who are jumping on the "union comment about Charlotte" are missing the key point... The person was/is a teacher. It's likely a very specific editorial on the teaching profession and unions, which is a very different discussion then unions in tradeskills. A teacher is going to be pro-union simply because of the benefits they see the union provides in other states (contract negotiation, TENURE, etc). Logic is that a bills_fan is from NY and NY has a very powerful teaching union. In that context, I can understand to some extent the union comment. The comments on those in the South on work ethic are out of line... bordering on laughable.

That all said, I don't see how anyone can argue that the school system in CMS needs work. Especially when you consider how high the level of education is at the secondary level in NC. It's right on point highlighting an issue in the Charlotte area.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:44 AM
 
7,103 posts, read 9,679,967 times
Reputation: 2563
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post

That all said, I don't see how anyone can argue that the school system in CMS needs work. Especially when you consider how high the level of education is at the secondary level in NC. It's right on point highlighting an issue in the Charlotte area.
On the contrary it's easy to argue your point. You are in a sense saying that if we get a UNION worker from NY that the level of education in CMS rises.
I can't find the substantiation that a union worker, albiet cars or teaching,has any more skills than a non-union variety.
What am I missing here? Tell me.
je
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:06 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,920,434 times
Reputation: 22369
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Ani, I was not reacting to your posts, because I think that they were right on the money. You get it.

You know what my plans are, & with some luck I will be able to avoid the screenwriters union, & the rest, but in the mean time, I'll take what I can get.

I just plain resented those posts about the locals because they reflect on me & other transplants. To add to it, it also reflects on my midwestern heritage & all who came before me.

I'm here for a lot of reasons & lord knows that economics are a part of it, but only a part. I'm a firm believer in blending in. I will be living with natives out here, not a bunch of transplants, & in spite of posts to the contrary, the people out here are nice as can be.

There's no reason for people to come here with the intention of turning this area into what they left. They left for a reason, be it job transfer or other reasons, they voluntarily left. There's nothing wrong with bringing businesses with them, like the ever-present pizza parlors that show up in the threads here, or tossing out ideas of something that might make an improvement, but there's just no excuse for trashing the locals.
Sorry - Southbound - that post I did sounded like it was directed to you, and it was actually in support of what you said - and then I added my own tag at the end, LOL. I think you and I agree w/ one another on this subject - including that it may be that we would have to join a union if we were to do screenwriting (but I would hope we didn't simply b/c of dues and having to follow guidelines).

There is a place for unions, as Mikey mentioned. I know EMS workers who feel good about their union association and feel their jobs are better b/c of that association w/ a union.
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:14 AM
 
4,222 posts, read 6,699,943 times
Reputation: 1559
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
I'm not looking to defend the bills_fan post - definitely not as I am a Jets fan. However, I believe those who are jumping on the "union comment about Charlotte" are missing the key point... The person was/is a teacher. It's likely a very specific editorial on the teaching profession and unions, which is a very different discussion then unions in tradeskills. A teacher is going to be pro-union simply because of the benefits they see the union provides in other states (contract negotiation, TENURE, etc). Logic is that a bills_fan is from NY and NY has a very powerful teaching union. In that context, I can understand to some extent the union comment. The comments on those in the South on work ethic are out of line... bordering on laughable.

That all said, I don't see how anyone can argue that the school system in CMS needs work. Especially when you consider how high the level of education is at the secondary level in NC. It's right on point highlighting an issue in the Charlotte area.
I too am a former teacher. A good teacher would have more class and/or intelligence than to post such an idiotic article as she. She was "not" referring to the teaching union. She was making a general statement about southern people being lazy because they are not union members. I am willing to bet that she lost her job as a teacher for making stupid/out of place comments.

I might also add that most teachers do not neccessarily join unions these days for pay raises. They mostly join so that they will have legal representation if and when some brainless parent wishes to sue for some ridiculous reason. Some join to get a sense of security when they personally feel that they may not be pulling the weight or doing a satisfactory job. The union will help this type person feel they can't be touched regardless of their performance (or lack of it). It is the next best thing to tenure which god knows how some people achieve. I taught for many years and never joined a union. The cost of dues forced me to take a chance without joining. Anyway, teachers are represented by the same unions all over the U.S.

Hopefully the person to whom we are discussing will be upset enough that she will go back to the place from where she came and get a union job where she can sit on her big rear end, do very little and cause the price of commodities to raise even higher. I doubt that she is a good teacher.

Last edited by vindaloo; 11-17-2008 at 11:22 AM..
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Old 11-17-2008, 12:13 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,793 posts, read 27,055,545 times
Reputation: 8884
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Sorry - Southbound - that post I did sounded like it was directed to you, and it was actually in support of what you said - and then I added my own tag at the end, LOL. I think you and I agree w/ one another on this subject - including that it may be that we would have to join a union if we were to do screenwriting (but I would hope we didn't simply b/c of dues and having to follow guidelines).

There is a place for unions, as Mikey mentioned. I know EMS workers who feel good about their union association and feel their jobs are better b/c of that association w/ a union.
LOL, Ani, I worked 8-17 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week, being flipped around the clock, with union sanction. If I wrote what the stations (& the broadcast companies who owned them) wanted, besides taking things off topic, most people simply would not believe it.

In some industries, the businesses have enough money to hire lawyers to find every possiblle loophole in the laws. For the most part, I agree, people who want to work union jobs for the sake of union jobs should forget moving here.

Usually the people who work in industries who are exempted when weather conditions close down roads are the ones who are most likely to need some outside help, (hopital workers & broadcasting people) but that can be changed by the companies' policies toward their workers. Nothing is black & white.

People who are thinking of moving here need to understand that with lower living expenses comes lower wages, it just makes economic sense.

I respect the feelings of locals who are not thrilled with a massive number of people coming in & changing things. I've been there myself. My reaction was to continue to go on, business as usual, as long as possible. Not everyone wants to upset the applecart.

As to tenure for unionized teachers. That's going the way of the dinosaurs in South Jersey. I know teachers there & I know for a fact that teachers in some districts are thinking of dropping union ties. A lot of the workplaces that are left there are non-union, too.

Throwing around derogatory comments from both sides doesn't do anyone any good. People who are thinking of moving here need to think it over & decide if they can come here & be happy with things as they stand. Right now, things are bad all over. That includes the Charlotte area.
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Old 11-17-2008, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,777 posts, read 8,395,867 times
Reputation: 4813
Quote:
Originally Posted by johne482 View Post
On the contrary it's easy to argue your point. You are in a sense saying that if we get a UNION worker from NY that the level of education in CMS rises.
I can't find the substantiation that a union worker, albiet cars or teaching,has any more skills than a non-union variety.
What am I missing here? Tell me.
je
I wasn't trying to make a point that union workers are more "skilled", I was just pointing out that the post causing the uproar was more slanted towards teaching unions - or at least that was my take on it.

Comparing automobile assembly to educating our kids isn't even in the same universe. CMS should be looking at ways to improve because they're frankly not good. You can't unilaterally say that adding a union would help and since we shouldn't hijack the thread and turn this into a union debate, I'll leave it at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandibadji View Post
I too am a former teacher. A good teacher would have more class and/or intelligence than to post such an idiotic article as she. She was "not" referring to the teaching union. She was making a general statement about southern people being lazy because they are not union members. I am willing to bet that she lost her job as a teacher for making stupid/out of place comments.
I married a HS English teacher and my Sister teaches JrHigh Social Studies... I know and have known many, many teachers over my years. I don't think we can determine that person's teaching skills based on that post and I definitely did not read it the same way as you. The reference was towards "trust fund kiddies" and a generalization about how poor the education is in CMS and Gaston. Where the union fits into that is open to interpretation, I guess.

Quote:
I might also add that most teachers do not neccessarily join unions these days for pay raises. They mostly join so that they will have legal representation if and when some brainless parent wishes to sue for some ridiculous reason. Some join to get a sense of security when they personally feel that they may not be pulling the weight or doing a satisfactory job. The union will help this type person feel they can't be touched regardless of their performance (or lack of it). It is the next best thing to tenure which god knows how some people achieve. I taught for many years and never joined a union. The cost of dues forced me to take a chance without joining. Anyway, teachers are represented by the same unions all over the U.S.

Hopefully the person to whom we are discussing will be upset enough that she will go back to the place from where she came and get a union job where she can sit on her big rear end, do very little and cause the price of commodities to raise even higher. I doubt that she is a good teacher.
I don't think the reason people joined unions has changed much over the years... I'll admit that I didn't know you could opt out of the teaching union and I have no idea how that impacts the union benefits (pay, tenure, etc). But, tenure was a very important factor for many because it gave them the protections you put a negative spin on. What if the school superitendent's niece just graduated college and she wanted a job in the district? What if a parent got bent because you failed their kid and went on a vendetta against you? Without tenure (or an equivalent), you could easily be pushed aside. It's way too easy to generalize the negative aspects of what a union gives...

Again, union debate aside and to bring my comments within the scope of this thread... The transplants are going to continue to have issues with the CM schools. They need to improve. You can try to blur this point any way you want, but it's a fact.
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