U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-01-2008, 12:50 PM
 
6,269 posts, read 9,978,517 times
Reputation: 4723

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
I agree with some of what you're trying to say here, but your second paragraph is scattershot. You say that the only time you saw white people in your neighborhood was when it was a white cop arresting a black man. Then you say that the people they were arresting were the town's role models, I'm guessing those "role models" being the father. It doesn't jive. If your dad or uncle was arrested by a white cop, then he certainly doesn't fit the traditional definition of "role model".

I also agree with you about where people are sending charitable contributions. The whole push on saving Africa is noble, but there's work to be done here. However where do you suggest the money goes to? Does it go to more law enforcement (which I would be for)? Education (which I'm not sure that I'm for)? Where would it go? That's part of what gets other states, or even the entire country for that matter, into trouble: Throwing money at a problem. I'm sick of that always being the answer, when it's nothing more than a wasteful political gesture.

Hating people with money is just turning your own back on potential success. If there's a fear that you would be turning your back on your own race by becoming a success, screwing yourself over in the process, that's a problem that goes farther than money.

One of the VERY few things I agree with Obama on is his stance on absentee fathers in black families. That right there is an enormous part of the problem. My father was the disciplinarian. You were never afraid of the line, "Wait until your mother finds out", but you were freaked out over, "Wait until your father finds out". I never feared a cop, black or white, and I'm as pro cop now as ever. It's got everything to do with upbringing. If you don't do anything wrong, you've pretty much got nothing to worry about. That all starts with showing respect, personal responsibility, and that starts with the home. Ain't no amount of money you can throw at that problem will ever fix it unless you can get people to fix themselves first.
Great post, but you are forgeting that the "role models" in these poor neighborhoods is the dope man. I know America doesn't see the dope man this way, but many kids in poor Charlotte do. People with money (usually the people that know how to act) need to spend TIME in these poor areas of Charlotte. Simply telling lost souls to "fix themselves first" ain't gonna work. How can a drug pusher fix himself first? If he knew how to fix himself, he never would have chosen that career.

Many of my friends in my neighborhood had mothers that were prostitutes. I am sorry, but the "role models" for these kids are not going to "fix" anything. These people could care less about savings accounts, picking a college, marriage, hope, dreams, and HUMAN LIFE. It is up to people like ourselves to impose these values onto poor Charlotte. If we simply turn a blind eye to these folks, we can't get too mad when they decide to shoot up Southpark Mall.

I understand and respect your opinion on this Brian, but telling these people to "fix themselves" almost sounds like you think this is "their" problem. We are all Charlotteans. Therefore this is OUR problem. A shooting near Northlake is proof of this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-01-2008, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,769 posts, read 6,746,132 times
Reputation: 2109
The article points to this as a gang related incident. In fact the man who said that he was the target (but an innocent person was shot instead) confirms it was gang related.

So it seems that among the many changes in a city like Charlotte that have happened, it seems gangs are on the rise. Urban gangs have predominantly been urban blacks and latinos. A fact is 99.99% of the gang members are from single parent homes, usually where the mother or another female figure is head of house.

So for those of you that felt comfortable going out at night 20 years ago, and don't, that's (one of) the reasons. The police chief is addressing the gang problem, it's not going to change over night. The crypts and bloods are probably one of the most well organized crime institutions in the country. It's going to take people who understand the issues of recruitment, what sustains gangs, and what it takes to provide an exit to a lot of the boys who want to leave (but can't- there's no leaving a gang once your in).

There are so many issues within urban black and latino communities it's beyond the scope of this thread. However it's best to avoid the easy temptation to over-generalized and assume that black teen=gang member. I could easily draw a similar generalization that white 30 something male=pedophile (since that demographic commits nearly 100% of sex crimes).

Is there an easy solution, nope, may it get worse before it gets better, possibly. But it is up to good people from all walks of life and all racial and economic backgrounds to understand they are the majority, and to look out for each other.

(off my soapbox).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 12:58 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,934,760 times
Reputation: 22369
Very interesting discussion and one that Charlotte leaders need to be listening to - cause whatever we have been doing (in re: to crime and the spawning of young thugs on our streets) - it sho nuff ain't working.

So what is the answer? I can only imagine what kind of reception a group of white folks would get who showed up at a church and said - "We are here to help." We would be told "We don't need you do-gooders coming into our community so you can feel good about yourselves."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 01:07 PM
 
6,269 posts, read 9,978,517 times
Reputation: 4723
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I have often wondered how much anger amongst the young in black communities has been fueled by the "politics of grievance" that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (and Farrakhan) have so often espoused.

Actor Shelby Steele:

"I am black and happy to be so, but my identity is not my master. I’m my master. And I resent this civil rights leadership telling me what I should think and what issues I should support this way or that way. And that’s where, in black America, identity has become almost totalitarian... You [must] subscribe to the idea that the essence of blackness is grounded in grievance, and if you vary from that you are letting whites off the hook. And we’re gonna call you a sell out. We’re gonna call you an ‘Uncle Tom’... I was gonna have a life or I was just going to be a kind of surrogate for blackness... but you enter an exile where the group identifies you as someone who is a threat, and part of being black is despising or having contempt for people like me."

Bill Moyers Journal: Grievance, Black Politics, and Black Identity
I wish I could rep you on this one Ani, but I have to spread my reps first!!! I am a proud black male. I was also one of the highest paid gas haulers in eastern Ky when I lived in KY (I was also the only black gas hauler there too). I broke down doors and barriers for young black truckers in Ashland KY. Here in Charlotte, some in the black community would call me a "sellout" because my wife is white. Some folks in the white community would call my wife "white trash" because her husband is black. This is the "disconnection" of class and race that I was talking about. Charlotte is very diverse when it comes to class and race. Charlotte is having a tough time dealing with the side effects of such diversity.

To me the crime solution is simple. We need to get tough on the adults that break the law. We also need to GET INVOLVED more with the day to day lives of the "at risk" offspring of these law breakers. It is that simple. If we do this, Charlotte would have almost no crime in less than a decade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,265,398 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Great post, but you are forgeting that the "role models" in these poor neighborhoods is the dope man. I know America doesn't see the dope man this way, but many kids in poor Charlotte do. People with money (usually the people that know how to act) need to spend TIME in these poor areas of Charlotte. Simply telling lost souls to "fix themselves first" ain't gonna work. How can a drug pusher fix himself first? If he knew how to fix himself, he never would have chosen that career. Many of my friends in my nieghborhood had mothers that were prostitutes. I am sorry, but the role models for these kids are not going to fix anything. These people could care less about savings acounts, picking a college, marriage, hope, dreams, and HUMAN LIFE. It is up to people like ourselves to impose these values onto poor Charlotte. If we simply turn a blind eye to these folks, we can't get too mad when they decide to shoot up Southpark Mall.

I understand and respect your opinion on this Brian, but telling these people to "fix themselves" almost sounds like you think this is "their" problem. We are all Charlotteans. Therefore this is OUR problem. A shooting near Northlake is proof of this.

Way, way wrong. That's like saying those in a shot up Southpark Mall would almost be deserving of their fate because they didn't do anything to impose their values onto others. Or that they were in some way responsible. I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything more than that line. "Hey, you didn't do anything about it and here's what you get". Sorry, that doesn't fly.

You say in one sentence that we have to start taking the money that we send to other countries in order to fight their own poverty and use it here. In essence that's taking responsibility for ourselves, and I do like that idea. At what point does it then come down to the individual families to do the same? What do we do, bail them out as well?

At some point yes, it does become the responsibility of someone to come to the realization that there's a problem and to "fix themselves", that being the dope man because all of that quick, easy money isn't the answer. That mom turning tricks in a back alley isn't cutting it any longer. How many arrests does it take to see that it's not exactly the most glamorous lifestyle? How many times does a son need to see or hear about his father being hauled off again before something's done from within? A lot of us, black and white, are concerning ourselves with our own financial situations these days. We're working for our own solutions right now. Yes, other people need help too. But like the saying goes, and like even you implied, you have to help yourself first.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,265,398 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miker2069 View Post
I could easily draw a similar generalization that white 30 something male=pedophile (since that demographic commits nearly 100% of sex crimes).

Sure you could. I've seen enough of those Predator shows to know that a lot of white guys seem to looooove underage kids. I can't for the life of me figure out why but it seems to be there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 02:28 PM
 
6,269 posts, read 9,978,517 times
Reputation: 4723
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
Way, way wrong. That's like saying those in a shot up Southpark Mall would almost be deserving of their fate because they didn't do anything to impose their values onto others. Or that they were in some way responsible. I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything more than that line. "Hey, you didn't do anything about it and here's what you get". Sorry, that doesn't fly.

You say in one sentence that we have to start taking the money that we send to other countries in order to fight their own poverty and use it here. In essence that's taking responsibility for ourselves, and I do like that idea. At what point does it then come down to the individual families to do the same? What do we do, bail them out as well?

At some point yes, it does become the responsibility of someone to come to the realization that there's a problem and to "fix themselves", that being the dope man because all of that quick, easy money isn't the answer. That mom turning tricks in a back alley isn't cutting it any longer. How many arrests does it take to see that it's not exactly the most glamorous lifestyle? How many times does a son need to see or hear about his father being hauled off again before something's done from within? A lot of us, black and white, are concerning ourselves with our own financial situations these days. We're working for our own solutions right now. Yes, other people need help too. But like the saying goes, and like even you implied, you have to help yourself first.
I am not at all saying that a victim is the blame LOL!!! I am saying that we as Charlotteans are part of the problem because we tend to say "help yourself first". We segregate ourselves when we are all Charotteans. We even tell newcomers where not to go or where not to live in Charlotte. Then when the people of these "bad" areas venture out into the "desirable" areas of Charlotte, we all cry foul.

It is kinda like having a nice Mercedes Brian. How can you show off your nice car while ignoring its flat tire? The answer is you can't. That is the crime problem in Charlotte. Too many people in Charlotte are "running away" from certain areas of town or simply ignoring the city's "flat tire" as if that's the solution. I applaud the urban pioneers of areas like Wilmore that has helped "fix" one of Charlotte's most notorious neighborhoods.

Here is an interesting article in the observer about Wilmore, South End, and West Charlotte. It shows how we all can make these areas better. If these areas are improved, Charlotte's crime rate will go down.
Charlotte before South End - Business | CharlotteObserver.com

You are correct Brian. It does come from within. However, you must understand that we are talking about people that have never grown up. This is why these folks find themselves in jail over and over again. When you and I were kids Brian, we learned to obey and follow the rules. We had the right role models so for us following the rules is a nobrainer. Many of the poor kids of Charlotte never got this lesson while growing up. That is why they shoot before they think. We can not expect a 5 year old to do the right thing all the time. Many of the poor folks in Charlotte think like 5 year olds because they were raised by adults that think like 5 year olds. This is why mature adults from wealthier areas of Charlotte needs to get involved. Just like in Wilmore, new money and new ideas from urban pioneers can turn ANY neighborhood around. Charlotte needs to do more revitalizations like Wilmore so this entire city can be safe!!! I hope this makes sense. I am by no means saying that Southpark deserves to be shot up. When I said that "we can't get too mad about it" I meant that such a thing is not unthinkable in Charlotte anymore. We all need to work together to change Charlotte. I understand where you are coming from, but we must be able to discuss these things without putting words in each other's mouths. The fact that we are putting words in each others mouths shows the "disconnect" and misunderstanding that exists in Charlotte. Being that I am married to a white girl (I am black BTW), I know this ethnic and social disconnection in America all too well.

Crime in Charlotte is a problem, but let's look at Charlotte for a second. When I visit comparable sized cities to Charlotte, I see bars on the bottom floor windows. I see metal detectors at all clubs and even at some high schools. I see people locking their doors and setting their car and home alarms. Almost everyone in other cities use "The Club" over their steering wheels. I will be honest. Most cities Charlotte's size know they have "big city crime" and they act accordingly. Charlotte needs to wake up and do the same.

Last edited by urbancharlotte; 12-01-2008 at 03:06 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 02:54 PM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
4,975 posts, read 8,698,009 times
Reputation: 6443
I was at Northlake the weekend it opened. Crawling with thugs. Heard more "***** this and ***** that" than ever before. Most crawled back under the rocks where they live after grand opening, but that soured me on Northlake from day one.

That could be a great shopping area and experience. I expect it will never make it due to crime. Hope I am wrong.

lln
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Uptown CLT (4th Ward)
2,560 posts, read 7,701,500 times
Reputation: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLN View Post
I was at Northlake the weekend it opened. Crawling with thugs. Heard more "***** this and ***** that" than ever before. Most crawled back under the rocks where they live after grand opening, but that soured me on Northlake from day one.

That could be a great shopping area and experience. I expect it will never make it due to crime. Hope I am wrong.

lln
Tons of thugs at South Park too...especailly years back with that housing project behind Burger King (that is now gone) was there. The bus line has always gone to South Park and their have always been plenty of thugs at South Park...same with Carolina Place in PIneville too.

This is Charlotte...hug a thug!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,265,398 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
I am not at all saying that a victim is the blame LOL!!! I as saying that we as Charlotteans are part of the problem because we tend to say "help yourself first". We segregate ourselves when we are all Charotteans. We even tell newcomers where not to go or where not to live in Charlotte. Then when the people of these "bad" areas venture out into the "desirable" areas of Charlotte, we all cry foul.
Absolutely we tell people where not to go. That's not ignoring the problem, quite the contrary it's being cognizant of it. People don't cry foul when the people of the bad areas venture into the desirable ones, they cry foul when they become victim of a random crime, which I'd be crying foul too. Why on earth would anyone advocate someone moving into a high crime area before anything is done about the problem?

Here's the logic: You're saying "help the black community to help itself, therefore in the long run you'll be helping yourself" (or, help us save us, so therefor we can save you from us). Okay, let's use that. How? People always say, "Education is key". Okay. Who are we educating? Where do you start? What's the example being set? Because initially you're saying that people with money should be the ones to go into these areas and do the good work. Where does the money go? It's not that cut and dried.

Maybe the dope man doesn't fix himself. Maybe he becomes the example and instead of going through Charlotte's revolving door he winds up locked away for a while (and none of this crap of bigger fines for pushing in a school zone, it's the same no matter where). Maybe whoever fired the shots at Northlake becomes the example and doesn't see the light of day for several years. Maybe they need to see more examples of hardworking, proud black people such are yourself. You would be far more influential than most white man with money. Maybe there needs to be far more stability within black families. You don't buy that, and no race can help any other with that. And really, they shouldn't be held responsible to do so, either.

Bill Cosby had a great quote:

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids -- $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics'". They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is.'".


"These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

Now I don't think anyone's advocating shooting someone for stealing a pound cake , but it's easy to follow where he's coming from. And he's saying it has to come from within. Money doesn't solve it, certainly anything coming from white folks won't do a whole lot too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top