Charlotte: NC's ugly stepchild (school, office, stations)

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Thanks, Ani. I'm no expert on NC history, but from what I've picked up connected to my ancestors' early arrival from PA, & helping a friend track his, coming from NJ, PA (some from the area that became DE), MD, & VA, as well as some other people, I have a bit of an idea of who came down the Great Philadelphia Wagon Road, & in some cases why. It wasn't like the group who settled the coastal areas, for the most part.

I know what you mean about the money. I've read that the monied aristocrats in the east were the ones who pushed through the secession vote in 1861, but from everything that I've read, it seems that there was already a divide. That's why I asked. (not trying to stir up anything based on my historical references, just looking for the source of the problem)

Lord, no, you are not stirring up a thing. I am so glad you posted your info and asked the question b/c it puts things in perspective. You are right w/ all your info. There has been a divide w/in this state from Day One. Well look at it! Very different emigrants settling in the mountains as opposed to the gentry in the east. This state fought over where the state capitol would be located. And the people who settled the mountain counties- they were rugged individualists, usually poor and often fleeing their Mother Country b/c they were avoiding debtor's prison, were not the eldest so couldn't inherit the family farm or they were just dirt poor and would never ever have a chance for anything at all if they didn't head across the pond. The plantations were in the east, for the most part. At the time of the War, I believe I am right that less than 12% of the citizens of NC owned a slave. I mean - think about it - poor people were working the land the same way slaves were - they could hardly afford to buy staples, much less a slave.

So yes, there was a big dichotomy b/n west and east in this state. And there still is!!!!!

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by anifani821

Lord, no, you are not stirring up a thing. I am so glad you posted your info and asked the question b/c it puts things in perspective. You are right w/ all your info. There has been a divide w/in this state from Day One. Well look at it! Very different emigrants settling in the mountains as opposed to the gentry in the east. This state fought over where the state capitol would be located. And the people who settled the mountain counties- they were rugged individualists, usually poor and often fleeing their Mother Country b/c they were avoiding debtor's prison, were not the eldest so couldn't inherit the family farm or they were just dirt poor and would never ever have a chance for anything at all if they didn't head across the pond. The plantations were in the east, for the most part. At the time of the War, I believe I am right that less than 12% of the citizens of NC owned a slave. I mean - think about it - poor people were working the land the same way slaves were - they could hardly afford to buy staples, much less a slave.

So yes, there was a big dichotomy b/n west and east in this state. And there still is!!!!!

Oh good, I didn't want to look like I was stirring the pot. I know the similar problems in Jersey also go back to the beginning, so it seemed like the place to look.

Yes, many of the folks in the mountains have branches on both sides of the state line. Many of the oldest familes ended up there during the evacuation from Wilkes County GA, during the Revolution, when East TN belonged to NC. Also, some of those families had left family behind in the Piedmont of NC before going to GA, when the Indian land opened up. Lots of Quakers, Baptists, & Presbyterians as well as some Lutherans & the Moravians...just an absolutely different group, & looked down upon by the British crown. Wouldn't you think that in 300 years that whole thing would have gone away? Apparently not..........

[anifani821]

Well, most of the situation w/ the divisions as they are today stem from very different concerns and need for revenue. In the east, we have tobacco, hog and turkey farmers . . . and we have all sorts of commerce related to water - fisheries . . . and the port of Wilmington. Used to be, the eastern part of the state produced greater tax revenue. The western part of the state was more or less a wasteland in the 18th and 19th C as far as tax revenue. And the eastern "aristocrats" considered the western mountain counties to be filled w/ hillbillies, LOL. And you have it right - the east were descendants of the Lords Proprietors and the west - riff raff from Scotland and Ireland (amongst those, our ancestors, LOL!!!)

A merchant class developed in the mid 19th C in the western counties (i.e. Catawba, Mecklenburg, for ex) b/c of trade routes and especially - b/c of cotton gins and cotton mills and in Meck - gold . . . you can see the evolution from there . . . w/ the Civil War and its impact on both commerce and the economy - and the re-building in the region (slow and painful, and often the recovery was only after the factories were purchased by "carpetbaggers"). THus the roots of dislike of "carpetbaggers" post Reconstruction . . . we could go on w/ this discussion for hours.

So into the 20th C, the western part of the state was definitely contributing more revenue to the state coffers. But then the depression hit . . . wh/ brought many industries to their knees, but NOT the tobacco farmers . . . who were still contributing the tax revenue.

The power is where the money is. Things have shifted but the Good Old Boy system, once fueled by tobacco money and big agri-business, is still functioning quite well. Some of those legislators have been chairing and sitting on committees for decades and everyone owes everyone else favors . . . Until we clean the barn out and get rid of those Old Barn Rats who wield the power in Raleigh, nothing is gonna change. But you can't get the voters in that part of the state to swing GOP, b/c they have a vested interest in keeping the Old Barn Rats in place - to get (more than) their share of whatever pork is being handed out.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by anifani821

Well, most of the situation w/ the divisions as they are today stem from very different concerns and need for revenue. In the east, we have tobacco, hog and turkey farmers . . . and we have all sorts of commerce related to water - fisheries . . . and the port of Wilmington. Used to be, the eastern part of the state produced greater tax revenue. The western part of the state was more or less a wasteland in the 18th and 19th C as far as tax revenue. And the eastern "aristocrats" considered the western mountain counties to be filled w/ hillbillies, LOL. And you have it right - the east were descendants of the Lords Proprietors and the west - riff raff from Scotland and Ireland (amongst those, our ancestors, LOL!!!)

A merchant class developed in the mid 19th C in the western counties (i.e. Catawba, Mecklenburg, for ex) b/c of trade routes and especially - b/c of cotton gins and cotton mills and in Meck - gold . . . you can see the evolution from there . . . w/ the Civil War and its impact on both commerce and the economy - and the re-building in the region (slow and painful, and often the recovery was only after the factories were purchased by "carpetbaggers"). THus the roots of dislike of "carpetbaggers" post Reconstruction . . . we could go on w/ this discussion for hours.

So into the 20th C, the western part of the state was definitely contributing more revenue to the state coffers. But then the depression hit . . . wh/ brought many industries to their knees, but NOT the tobacco farmers . . . who were still contributing the tax revenue.

The power is where the money is. Things have shifted but the Good Old Boy system, once fueled by tobacco money and big agri-business, is still functioning quite well. Some of those legislators have been chairing and sitting on committees for decades and everyone owes everyone else favors . . . Until we clean the barn out and get rid of those Old Barn Rats who wield the power in Raleigh, nothing is gonna change. But you can't get the voters in that part of the state to swing GOP, b/c they have a vested interest in keeping the Old Barn Rats in place - to get (more than) their share of whatever pork is being handed out.

That's a terrific way to explain it, Ani. It lays it out very plainly.

[adavi215]

Originally Posted by anifani821

I don't think the newcomers understand the politics in this state well enuff to fully comprehend what it means that we have voted in so many DEMS to elected office this past Nov.

Historically, this state is divided down the middle, w/ eastern DEMs making sure that the western part of this state gets screwed on any major issue, w/ roads being the # 1 bone of contention.

A two party system has been essential in this state, and we desperately needed a GOP Gov this go round to balance things out and to see that the Good Old Boys in the state house and senate didn't appropriate all the funds to their pet projects in the eastern part of this state.

For those of you who don't understand what is gonna happen - or don't believe the history I have alluded to - just sit back and watch, as Charlotte, and indeed, every county in the western part of this state, gets screwed on major projects in the coming years.

As a Dem from Charlotte, obviously I am going to disagree. I think Perdue as Gov. is a big sign for Charlotte especially considering her meeting here with Charlotte business leaders about improving Charlotte. Of course I know that the Gen Assem. controls the budget. I did not know all of the interesting history about the divide between east and west NC. I am familiar with the competition between Char and Ral (if ciurse I back Charlotte but I still love Raleigh). I hope that you're wrong and that dems come through and help Charlotte become the metropolis it is destined to be.

However ani, I don't know everything and I am open and willing to learn why Dems in the general assem is bad.

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by adavi215

As a Dem from Charlotte, obviously I am going to disagree. I think Perdue as Gov. is a big sign for Charlotte especially considering her meeting here with Charlotte business leaders about improving Charlotte. Of course I know that the Gen Assem. controls the budget. I did not know all of the interesting history about the divide between east and west NC. I am familiar with the competition between Char and Ral (if ciurse I back Charlotte but I still love Raleigh). I hope that you're wrong and that dems come through and help Charlotte become the metropolis it is destined to be.

However ani, I don't know everything and I am open and willing to learn why Dems in the general assem is bad.

Hey, ADAVI! I know it probably came across as "DEMS ARE BAD" and I apologize for that, cause that is not what I meant. It is the power that is held by a group of Dems in the eastern part of the state that causes problems w/ fair legislation. They control all the "important" committees and chairmanships . . . and they have been in the game so long, people owe them and they can influence legislation b/c of that.

It is just my opinion, according to things I have heard and seen, that Perdue owes a lot of favors to people who helped get her elected and so will back projects as a pay off for that support.

Anyone in either party can be corrupt, and in this state, we have seen an example of that w/ Jim Black who definitely sullied our reputation in Charlotte. And he was NOT an eastern DEM. Power can corrupt. But even when corruption is not present . . . power influences and affects outcomes of legislation, especially in re: to the budget and projects.

Just didn't want it to sound like I am a dyed in the wool Republican who is against all Dems - not true at all. I am a ticket splitter - vote for the person I believe will represent the citizens the best.

Like you, I would rather be wrong on this one b/c CLT pours the money into the State's coffers and our projects should have some precedence for that reason ALONE.

ETA: Black was into cronyism as badly as anyone in this state . . . and instead of backing CLT projects, paid off eastern legislators for their support for him as House Speaker by funneling money their way . . .

[Miker2069]

Originally Posted by TheEmissary

Or better yet, he could marry good ol' Gloria and she could pay for 485 out of her "retirement fund". What a dynamic duo that would be!

And at this point I stopped reading what up until now was an interesting thread.

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

And at this point I stopped reading what up until now was an interesting thread.

Keep reading. Em was just using some wry humor . . . we have moved on.

[adavi215]

Originally Posted by anifani821

Hey, ADAVI! I know it probably came across as "DEMS ARE BAD" and I apologize for that, cause that is not what I meant. It is the power that is held by a group of Dems in the eastern part of the state that causes problems w/ fair legislation. They control all the "important" committees and chairmanships . . . and they have been in the game so long, people owe them and they can influence legislation b/c of that.

It is just my opinion, according to things I have heard and seen, that Perdue owes a lot of favors to people who helped get her elected and so will back projects as a pay off for that support.

Anyone in either party can be corrupt, and in this state, we have seen an example of that w/ Jim Black who definitely sullied our reputation in Charlotte. And he was NOT an eastern DEM. Power can corrupt. But even when corruption is not present . . . power influences and affects outcomes of legislation, especially in re: to the budget and projects.

Just didn't want it to sound like I am a dyed in the wool Republican who is against all Dems - not true at all. I am a ticket splitter - vote for the person I believe will represent the citizens the best.

Like you, I would rather be wrong on this one b/c CLT pours the money into the State's coffers and our projects should have some precedence for that reason ALONE.

ETA: Black was into cronyism as badly as anyone in this state . . . and instead of backing CLT projects, paid off eastern legislators for their support for him as House Speaker by funneling money their way . . .

I didn't take it personal, and I respect your opinion. I was just stating mine. No hard feelings. My grandparents are die hard Ruby Red repubs so our political convo will be interesting. LOL. I also don't know much about state politics so if dems hurt Charlotte consider me ruby red too! Besides, if your a Charlottean its hard to be die hard dem or repub. This city is different in that I believe it is a balance of both. Do we know what western dems do for the state?

[Rybaran]

Originally Posted by jstn

Amen sister, I heard straight from the horse's mouth, Mr. McCrory, that part of the reason Charlotte lacks the monies for specific projects and issues is because they constantly have to use city generated money for our STATE roads here in Charlotte.

No offense to anyone, but why in the HELL would some of these much smaller towns in the middle of nowhere be getting more money to build roads than the largest metropolis between DC and Atlanta? It's real simple, jealousy and good ol' boy networking. It's not that we are the ugly stepchild, but more of we are the shining star that others are jealous of. I just don't get it. Our success only helps NC.

Our state really missed an opportunity to rectify things in this past election. Unfortunately, too many uninformed voters, made the decision. Sad.

In other words, "anyone who disagrees with me".