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Mortgage brokers MAY get you a somewhat lower rate...very doubtful, in my many years of underwriting, both retail & wholesale, I have NEVER seen the rate given to a broker loan to be any less than that of a retail loan. However, I HAVE seen broker fees of up to 8% tacked on in different areas; masquerading as "lender fees", such as "underwriting fees" or "application fees";etc., most times not charged by the lender, but, by the broker. There are fees that are designated "broker fees", but, usually are small to lead the borrower into believing that their beloved broker has only charged them a very small fee. Then, there are the "back end points" charged. (again by the broker, not lender)
A bank charges only their origination, the appraisal, title insurance, flood & tax certification and recording fees. There may be "points" charged for a lower rate, but, not usually on a refinance.
Renriq, I am quite certain that BOA has a commercial and/or small business dept. A multifamily building such as what John is describing could go with either.
I went to Wachovia, and Bank of America, and renriq was lower than both.
He recommended to shop around, and his rate was lower by 0.25% compared to BOA and my bank Wachovia.
I have a 180k mortgage, and a 750 credit score.
I would highly recommend renriq or any broker over banks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs
Mortgage brokers MAY get you a somewhat lower rate...very doubtful, in my many years of underwriting, both retail & wholesale, I have NEVER seen the rate given to a broker loan to be any less than that of a retail loan. However, I HAVE seen broker fees of up to 8% tacked on in different areas; masquerading as "lender fees", such as "underwriting fees" or "application fees";etc., most times not charged by the lender, but, by the broker. There are fees that are designated "broker fees", but, usually are small to lead the borrower into believing that their beloved broker has only charged them a very small fee. Then, there are the "back end points" charged. (again by the broker, not lender)
A bank charges only their origination, the appraisal, title insurance, flood & tax certification and recording fees. There may be "points" charged for a lower rate, but, not usually on a refinance.
Renriq, I am quite certain that BOA has a commercial and/or small business dept. A multifamily building such as what John is describing could go with either.
Mortgage brokers MAY get you a somewhat lower rate...very doubtful, in my many years of underwriting, both retail & wholesale, I have NEVER seen the rate given to a broker loan to be any less than that of a retail loan. However, I HAVE seen broker fees of up to 8% tacked on in different areas; masquerading as "lender fees", such as "underwriting fees" or "application fees";etc., most times not charged by the lender, but, by the broker. There are fees that are designated "broker fees", but, usually are small to lead the borrower into believing that their beloved broker has only charged them a very small fee. Then, there are the "back end points" charged. (again by the broker, not lender)
A bank charges only their origination, the appraisal, title insurance, flood & tax certification and recording fees. There may be "points" charged for a lower rate, but, not usually on a refinance.
Renriq, I am quite certain that BOA has a commercial and/or small business dept. A multifamily building such as what John is describing could go with either.
Everything that is to be said on this subject (Broker/Bank) is contained in the first paragraph of this post.The reason I say that is most, a lot, a great deal of people don't read past what rate they received. They forget about a point here and a point there. In fact you can't imagine how many people there are that don't know what a "point" is! How many people know in DETAIL what EVERY line on the settlement statement means? How it will affect them? What they are paying for? For MANY people all they see are the keys to the house on the table in front of them and someone saying "Billy, sign here and pass the paper around the table".
Think about what I just wrote and it's relationship to the housing crash.
I would like to clear up an earliar term I used so that there is no confusion regarding the word "commercial".
Re-reading a question posed to me asked if the building property I am buying was "commercial". In NYC and I am not sure about NC) we use the term "commercial" two ways. First way is non-residential such as factory or office. Second way is a property is a "commercial loan" if there are more than 4 residential units, and that was what I was referring to (7 residential duplex units).
Last edited by pink caddy; 12-22-2008 at 05:29 AM..
Reason: spelling
I used to work for BOA, and LendingTree.
Do you know how many loans I lost to brokers? Over 80-90%
FACTS have shown that banks charge btwn 1-1.25% higher than brokers.
You also stated before in another that a borrower today MUST put down 20%, and it's obvious you dont do FHA.
It's quite doubtful you're in industry as any person would know that 8% is the max for the Federal Section 32, and a lender can hardly go near it w/out triggering it.
Are you telling us that a broker charged 8% on the front of the loan? lol
Everyone knows that's ridiculous as someone would be heading to jail if they did that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs
Mortgage brokers MAY get you a somewhat lower rate...very doubtful, in my many years of underwriting, both retail & wholesale, I have NEVER seen the rate given to a broker loan to be any less than that of a retail loan. However, I HAVE seen broker fees of up to 8% tacked on in different areas; masquerading as "lender fees", such as "underwriting fees" or "application fees";etc., most times not charged by the lender, but, by the broker. There are fees that are designated "broker fees", but, usually are small to lead the borrower into believing that their beloved broker has only charged them a very small fee. Then, there are the "back end points" charged. (again by the broker, not lender)
A bank charges only their origination, the appraisal, title insurance, flood & tax certification and recording fees. There may be "points" charged for a lower rate, but, not usually on a refinance.
Renriq, I am quite certain that BOA has a commercial and/or small business dept. A multifamily building such as what John is describing could go with either.
IF BOA, where I maintain a sizable account, ever offered me "a package of terms" that was anything less than a MB... well all I can say is that would be one more BOA employee on the street. No boast, no threat, just plain facts.
I would like to clear up an earliar term I used so that there is no confusion regarding the word "commercial".
Re-reading a question posed to me asked if the building property I am buying was "commercial". In NYC and I am not sure about NC) we use the term "commercial" two ways. First way is non-residential such as factory or office. Second way is a property is a "commercial loan" if there are more than 4 residential units, and that was what I was referring to (7 residential duplex units).
In NC, a multifamily property such as what you are describing could be a residential, small business or commercial. The designation is going to depend upon how the property is deeded and zoned. That will determine how it is underwritten.
I used to work for BOA, and LendingTree.
Do you know how many loans I lost to brokers? Over 80-90%
FACTS have shown that banks charge btwn 1-1.25% higher than brokers.
You also stated before in another that a borrower today MUST put down 20%, and it's obvious you dont do FHA.
It's quite doubtful you're in industry as any person would know that 8% is the max for the Federal Section 32, and a lender can hardly go near it w/out triggering it.
Are you telling us that a broker charged 8% on the front of the loan? lol
Everyone knows that's ridiculous as someone would be heading to jail if they did that!
Oh, I am in the industry. I do not do FHA/VA loans, but, I am a mortgage underwriter and have been since 2000. I have done almost every other type of loan including small business, non real estate and consumer loans, however.
I never said that the 8% was only on the front end of the loan. I said that it was in various places. I have known brokers to juggle the fees so that they would equal the 8% but in different areas, including changing the designation of some fees so that they would not fall under section 32 and they could then charge more. Additionally, I know brokers that simply will not work in certain cities or states because they cannot get their "full fee". (example: Atlanta & Chicago). Certain states are tighter than others.
The end result is that people will ALWAYS save money going directly through their bank or credit union. That is just logic. If you can get something (anything) directly from a vendor, it is cheaper than paying someone else to obtain that very thing from the vendor.
then why is a FACT that banks charge higher than mortgage brokers?
If your theory is true then why do banks have a wholesale department if their retail rates are better?
You have SEEN but that doesn't mean all the brokers are like that.
It's OBVIOUS that all aren't since it's a FACT that brokers charge 1-1.25% lower than banks.
Do all banks do business in all states? NO. Some states have higher fees that it will make sense for the bank to do business there.
ALL business have similar model, and I'm not sure why you're bringing that up with brokers.
Banks do not have to disclose YSP.
Brokers do.
Even if the banks charged the same rate/fees..they would still make more money than the broker. The problem is that banks are greedy, and have to pay their CEO's compensation.
Brokers do not have huge overheads like banks do.
I dont have TV commercials so I dont have to worry about large expenses.
Banks have multimillion dollar marketing, and they have to recoup the fees by charging more.
You try to use 'logic' to think that banks are better.
I use FACTS and I have access to different rate sheets from various lenders.
You may have only 1 ratesheet from 1 lender.
I worked for BOA, and I thought I was on top of the world.
I thought everyone had to put 20% down....just like your post about 1-2months ago.
You stated that all borrowers have to put 20% down.
That is a lie.
FHA requires 3% down ONLY, and the seller can pay up to 6% of your closing costs.
Just because YOU dont offer it doesnt mean it's not out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs
Oh, I am in the industry. I do not do FHA/VA loans, but, I am a mortgage underwriter and have been since 2000. I have done almost every other type of loan including small business, non real estate and consumer loans, however.
I never said that the 8% was only on the front end of the loan. I said that it was in various places. I have known brokers to juggle the fees so that they would equal the 8% but in different areas, including changing the designation of some fees so that they would not fall under section 32 and they could then charge more. Additionally, I know brokers that simply will not work in certain cities or states because they cannot get their "full fee". (example: Atlanta & Chicago). Certain states are tighter than others.
The end result is that people will ALWAYS save money going directly through their bank or credit union. That is just logic. If you can get something (anything) directly from a vendor, it is cheaper than paying someone else to obtain that very thing from the vendor.
The end result is that people will ALWAYS save money going directly through their bank or credit union. That is just logic. If you can get something (anything) directly from a vendor, it is cheaper than paying someone else to obtain that very thing from the vendor.
That was not my experience -- rate was 1/8 point lower than bank or existing mortgage lender could do. For me, primary utility of broker has been keeping an eye on rates and locking when they are lowest, something that my bank wasn't interested in doing.
You're looking at broker as a middleman increasing cost. This may be true in some circumstances. You could also think of a broker as a bundler, however, able to offer lenders easy access to multiple customers with minimal marketing costs. I believe that it costs a bank less to originate a loan through a broker than to do it on the retail level -- customer service reps, marketing, and people to process the front-end paperwork aren't free.
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Correcto
