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Old 02-04-2009, 08:55 PM
 
206 posts, read 453,375 times
Reputation: 90

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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcornwell View Post
Agreed, there has to be a focus for the demonstration.

Maybe it's not a protest. Maybe there'd be a way to spin a positive message?

Maybe it's a demonstration that focuses on sharing burdens as well as benefits?

Maybe it's late and I watched too much Lost and have to sleep on this.

Personally, I'd like to get the message out that there's a humane way to be a capitalist, that profiting at the expense of the masses is wrong. Something like that.
That's it! A humane way to be a capitalist, We don't have to go to the other end of the spectrum.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Noth Caccalacca
5,554 posts, read 6,670,208 times
Reputation: 4847
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheenie2000 View Post
We could protest the useless wasteful bailout that does nothing for us and just goes to CEOs to keep or the banks to hoard the money for their balance sheets.

We could ask for a 10,000 dollar tax credit for each household. That actually might help us than the whole 20 dollars Obama plans to give us in each paycheck.

10K for each household equals to 1 trillion dollars. Seems like that's more helpful.

Forget the wasteful 350+ billion and the 1 trillion for the stupid earmarks and government waste. And STIMULATE US DIRECTLY!
sheenie - While I love your statements on an emotional basis, giving every household 10 grand isn't going to fix the Yadkin Bridge or finish up 485. There have always been things government does well and private enterprise does well. The hard part is getting the mix of these two just right. I sometimes think that "economic theory" and "chaos theory" have a lot in common. When did CEO compensation go from 25 times the salary of the lowest-paid employee to 450 times? It's (Greed is Good!) almost squared! I just heard on WBTV that BoA may end up having to be "nationalized" because of its purchase of Merrill-Lynch. It just seems that too much of the American public has been "blissfully unaware" of economic conditions until a major economic catastrophe is upon us! In a way, it's our own fault for not keeping an eye on the store.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,106,172 times
Reputation: 2323
Em, you are exactly right (again!). People have no idea of the depth and breadth of this financial crisis. The bottom line problem over the last few years was the lack of regulation which allowed the greed to kick in and people do what they want. It has even taken the feds unaware. Hopefully, they have now analyzed things properly to try to right the ship as it were. I cannot claim to know enough about the serious intricacies involved, but, I am sure watching to see what is happening.

Rather than protests or driving to Washington, if people truly educated themselves on this whole thing, and kept a watchful eye, the gov't would be a lot more prone to take proper action, knowing that they are being watched. By making your voices heard via e-mail, phone calls and faxes...talking intelligently about what is going on (rather than vague rants), we can make a difference. So, start reading Kiplinger and MONEY and the other financial resources out there and find out what this is REALLY about. Then, call your senator/congressperson and let them know how you feel.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:13 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,023,037 times
Reputation: 22370
Well, I think all the power brokers in Washington need to see a visual demonstration of just how disgusted the American public is. By power brokers, I mean everyone from big interest lobbyists (and no, they will never GO AWAY) to Senators, Congressmen, DOJ, Cabinet members, etc. EVERYONE needs to understand that people across this country - in all age groups - are FED UP.

I think it should be a "We, the People" march. I am a capitalist, so make no mistake - I am firmly in favor of capitalism. This is no Bolshevik class war I am advocating, LOL!!!! I think one of the most enticing values we have in our society is the ability to MAKE MONEY, and to find innovative ways to create our family's wealth.

However, what has occurred is a massive game has been played in the financial sector. It started w/ legislation that forced banks into giving at least 20% of their loans to people who were high risk. It escalated when Franklin Raines at Fannie Mae decided to bundle those loans (wh/ were suspect at best, and doomed to failure at worst) w/ other securities. It became a bomb once institutions here and abroad (internationally) bought those securities knowing the "full faith" of the US Government was behind those securities. This was a Ponzi scheme at the highest level and no one wants to call it what it was: our government has essentially backed billions of dollars of toxic securities and when things started falling apart, the Treasury ran squealing to Congress. And why was the President and Congress compelled to create a Bail Out - TARP? Because indeed, when Raines bundled those toxic loans in w/ good securities . . . they were GUARANTEED by the federal government. So banks and financial institutions across the PLANET were screaming that they had been sold a stinky package of misrepresented goods - and the USA was responsible for backing those holdings.

These bundled securities had been passed around, reconfigured, sold and were hidden in funds at every brokerage in America and it appears, globally, as well. That means financial houses such as Goldmann Sachs had no clue exactly what was toxic and what wasn't. Further, that means that you and I had no clue that the supposedly high performing mutual funds we owned (and were investing in monthly w/ our 401Ks) included those toxic funds. Likewise, pension funds were permeated w/ those securities, as well.

Can you even imagine how the rest of the world feels about America right now? At least, the ones who realize what has occurred? Cause their banks held these toxic securities, too. Their pension funds had/have these toxic securities, also - and they demanded that the USA back those securities, as they should have demanded.

Well, there is no way our government can back all those toxic securities out there - and the fact is - NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS EVEN OUT THERE - cause it was bundled. Your defaulted mortgage might be held by a firm in Taiwan or Germany or Dubai. NO ONE KNOWS.

And these securities were overvalued. So, the Dow went up!!! And everyone was riding high on all the inflated value of those funds!!! Then the truth came out . . . and the Dow fell what - 43% compared to its high?

My point is . . . while we have all been living our lives, paying our mortgages, putting our money aside in savings accounts and 401Ks/IRAs . . . a group of people in the financial sector have been playing w/ the digits. Yes, that is all our financial system is based on. DIGITS. Numbers in the sky. Assigned values created by buying and selling on the stock market. NUMBERS.

Please play w/ me a moment. I asked my husband: Okay. We lost $90,000 on that fund. Where did the money GO? Where is it? Who has that $90,000? I thought matter can neither be created nor destroyed, and I had $90,000 that just VANISHED. Where did it GO???? If I had cashed it in one day b/f it started its decline, those digits 90000 represent CASH that someone could have counted out in my hand. So where did that GO?

Get my point?

It was never there! It was all just digits, numbers on a spread sheet, and the facts are - those spreadsheets were like fake books that someone keeps on the side to fool Uncle Sam and avoid paying IRS taxes . . . My mutual fund was permeated w/ VALUE-LESS securities and when that was discovered - POOF!!!! DIGITS GONE!!! 90000 subtracted.

But . . . we call those spreadsheets BALANCE SHEETS . . . so if it was taken off one side of the Balance Sheet . . . it was added to another side of someone's balance sheet . . . so WHERE DID IT GO? Oh, yeah . . . provision for BAD DEBT. But what does that mean? Anyone following this? Where did those digits - 90000 - get moved to and how did they disappear? Who determines VALUE???? Did someone get my 90000 on their books and then use it to pay a bonus to some exec at Merrill Lynch? Did someone get my 90000 digits and apply it to a bad mortgage somewhere so their balance sheet could show a 0 instead of -90000?

WHERE DID MY MONEY GO???????? Where did YOUR money go???

Now, that is the bottom line of the bottom line. We have all accepted this system - the Federal Reserve System - and we all choked when we got our statements showing our losses - but no one has said . . . WHERE DID IT GO???? LOSSES? You mean . . . b/c some SOB who over-extended himself in Nevada defaulted on his mortgage, the number 90000 got taken away from my account? WHAAATTTT????

Sure. I know there are economists and financial experts who will say I have over-simplified this . . . but have I really?

We, the People have been the bag boys. We are left holding the bag. While stockbrokers and financiers all over the world traded off securities and bought and sold on the stock markets across the world, We, the People were waking up, going to work, feeding our families and doing what we were taught we were SUPPOSED TO DO to provide for our families and our future . . . and a big game was being played . . . the financial sector was playing musical chairs with our money. . . and we did not know it. We did not know that we had BOUGHT CHIPS in a gambling casino when we were putting our money into those reputable mutual funds. And now the game is over - and we are left holding the bag.

We, the People.

But it doesn't end there. The house of cards comes tumbling down and people start losing their jobs . . . so once again, We, the People are now standing in the middle of a securities toxic waste dump.

So I say . . . We, the People need to stand up and demand a place at the table.

Class war? Not is the classical sense. But if you look at the situation from the perspective of each of us being USED and ABUSED by the FINANCIAL CLASS . . . hmmmm. Maybe we should be calling it a Economic Class War - the Worker Bees rebelling against the machinations of the Financial Class. And that "war" should permeate every social class, economic class, age demorgraphic, etc in this country - b/c everyone at every level of wealth has been hit by the games that have been played by the Financial Class.

Let's face it. Someone was asleep at the Treasury, the SEC . . . and Congress . . . dear God they are idiots. Really. They are supposed to be OUR VOICE.

This all comes down to toxic securities being sold around the world and the Federal Government being required to do what it has guaranteed it would do - back those securities. Let's just tell the truth here. You and I are having to ante up so the Treasury can keep its promise to other government treasuries across the globe.

We, the People. We were not told what Franklin Raines had done. And where is that guy? Why is he not having to answer for this crap? Why won't anyone just come out and say it - our government backed securities that were SHELLS and over-valued, at that. Now, We the People have to ante up b/c our GOVERNMENT didn't pay attention!!!

So what are we protesting? Let's start w/ OUTSOURCING. By god, if you are an American corporation, you should be required to hire American personnel. Give us back our jobs.

Part of this game of financial wealth has been played in boardrooms, where the main concern is increasing STOCK PRICES (value) so that stockholders of the corporation make BIGGER DIVIDENDS. So corporations have found ways to outsource labor and cut cost, thus - more money in the coffers, more VALUE in the company, better stock prices - and BIGGER STOCK DIVIDENDS.

It used to be corporations were vested in the community where they were located. Well, not any more. Companies can do business globally w/ no consequences (i.e., government imposed consequences, such as increased taxes). We, the People need to make it clear to Congress that we want AMERICAN GOODs, produced in AMERICAN FACTORIES and anything imported needs to have the hell taxed out of it. Oh yeah, China is suffering. Well, they couldn't wait to get our greedy manufacturers over to their soil so they could line up cheap labor and produce faulty goods that We, the People would consume . . . THANKS, Congress, for making that possible. See what your trade agreements got us. Melamine in dog food. Lead in toys. And American workers without jobs!!!!

Isolationism? Protectionism? The erudite amongst us have words to label a movement demanding American companies hire American workers. And we are to feel bad about it. Social consciousness - help the starving people in China and Indonesia. How about We, the People helping ourselves? I say it is not isolationism or protectionism but SELF PRESERVATION - and what the hell is wrong with that?

So . . . We, the People should ask Congress to demand that the American public's jobs are PRESERVED. You tell me - How have these Trade Agreements done a damn thing for the masses - for the worker bees out there - you and me? All they have done is make it possible for stockholders to make higher dividends. THINK ABOUT IT. What has occurred is that money has been taken out of YOUR and MY POCKETS (job loss due to outsourcing and corporations relocating to foreign soils) and transferred to STOCKHOLDERS of greedy companies.

So how about we start w/ protesting Trade Agreements that have allowed Corporations across the country to ship our jobs off American soil? If that were stopped, it would put a halt to GREED in the Board room . . . and open jobs so we can all GET BACK TO WORK and pay off our debts and create some financial security in our own families.

Self preservation. Self determination. These were the words our country was founded upon. What the hell happened along the way????? ASK CONGRESS TO EXPLAIN IT. Ask our President to explain it. Yes, this occurred on "someone else's watch" - these trade agreements. But we are where we are today.

I say - we should have a movement w/ some phrase like "Bring it Home" . . . Bring our jobs home, bring our wealth home. Or - "It starts at Home" - values as well as jobs all begin at the Grassroots level. Congress needs to respond to We, the People, who they supposedly represent. We the people have a solution: BRING OUR JOBS HOME and STOP CORPORATE GREED.

And if we all join together to speak as ONE VOICE . . . maybe "the eggheads will finally get it."
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
616 posts, read 1,565,925 times
Reputation: 302
Ani - wow you're good. Read this - Is President Obama losing the stimulus battle? | Salon

A quote:

" These problems have been building since at least the 1970s. Here's how Reich laid it out on Salon:

"The bursting of the housing bubble caused the current crisis, but the underlying problem began much earlier -- in the late 1970s, when median U.S. incomes began to stall. Because wages got hit then by the double-whammy of global competition and new technologies, the typical American family was able to maintain its living standard only if women went into the workforce in larger numbers, and later, only if everyone worked longer hours.

When even these coping mechanisms were exhausted, families went into debt -- a strategy that was viable as long as home values continued to rise. But when the housing bubble burst, families were no longer able to easily refinance and take out home-equity loans. The result: Americans no longer have the money to keep consuming. When you consider that consumers make up 70 percent of the economy, the magnitude of the problem becomes apparent.

What happened to the money? According to researchers Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez, since the late 1970s, a greater and greater share of national income has gone to people at the top of the earnings ladder. As late as 1976, the richest 1 percent of the country took home about 9 percent of the total national income. By 2006, they were pocketing more than 20 percent. But the rich don't spend as much of their income as the middle class and the poor do -- after all, being rich means that you already have most of what you need. That's why the concentration of income at the top can lead to a big shortfall in overall demand and send the economy into a tailspin. (It's not coincidental that 1928 was the last time that the top 1 percent took home more than 20 percent of the nation's income.)""

Sign me up for the "We the People" theme.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:55 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,878 posts, read 27,145,371 times
Reputation: 8943
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Well, I think all the power brokers in Washington need to see a visual demonstration of just how disgusted the American public is. By power brokers, I mean everyone from big interest lobbyists (and no, they will never GO AWAY) to Senators, Congressmen, DOJ, Cabinet members, etc. EVERYONE needs to understand that people across this country - in all age groups - are FED UP.

I think it should be a "We, the People" march. I am a capitalist, so make no mistake - I am firmly in favor of capitalism. This is no Bolshevik class war I am advocating, LOL!!!! I think one of the most enticing values we have in our society is the ability to MAKE MONEY, and to find innovative ways to create our family's wealth.

However, what has occurred is a massive game has been played in the financial sector. It started w/ legislation that forced banks into giving at least 20% of their loans to people who were high risk. It escalated when Franklin Raines at Fannie Mae decided to bundle those loans (wh/ were suspect at best, and doomed to failure at worst) w/ other securities. It became a bomb once institutions here and abroad (internationally) bought those securities knowing the "full faith" of the US Government was behind those securities. This was a Ponzi scheme at the highest level and no one wants to call it what it was: our government has essentially backed billions of dollars of toxic securities and when things started falling apart, the Treasury ran squealing to Congress. And why was the President and Congress compelled to create a Bail Out - TARP? Because indeed, when Raines bundled those toxic loans in w/ good securities . . . they were GUARANTEED by the federal government. So banks and financial institutions across the PLANET were screaming that they had been sold a stinky package of misrepresented goods - and the USA was responsible for backing those holdings.

These bundled securities had been passed around, reconfigured, sold and were hidden in funds at every brokerage in America and it appears, globally, as well. That means financial houses such as Goldmann Sachs had no clue exactly what was toxic and what wasn't. Further, that means that you and I had no clue that the supposedly high performing mutual funds we owned (and were investing in monthly w/ our 401Ks) included those toxic funds. Likewise, pension funds were permeated w/ those securities, as well.

Can you even imagine how the rest of the world feels about America right now? At least, the ones who realize what has occurred? Cause their banks held these toxic securities, too. Their pension funds had/have these toxic securities, also - and they demanded that the USA back those securities, as they should have demanded.

Well, there is no way our government can back all those toxic securities out there - and the fact is - NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS EVEN OUT THERE - cause it was bundled. Your defaulted mortgage might be held by a firm in Taiwan or Germany or Dubai. NO ONE KNOWS.

And these securities were overvalued. So, the Dow went up!!! And everyone was riding high on all the inflated value of those funds!!! Then the truth came out . . . and the Dow fell what - 43% compared to its high?

My point is . . . while we have all been living our lives, paying our mortgages, putting our money aside in savings accounts and 401Ks/IRAs . . . a group of people in the financial sector have been playing w/ the digits. Yes, that is all our financial system is based on. DIGITS. Numbers in the sky. Assigned values created by buying and selling on the stock market. NUMBERS.

Please play w/ me a moment. I asked my husband: Okay. We lost $90,000 on that fund. Where did the money GO? Where is it? Who has that $90,000? I thought matter can neither be created nor destroyed, and I had $90,000 that just VANISHED. Where did it GO???? If I had cashed it in one day b/f it started its decline, those digits 90000 represent CASH that someone could have counted out in my hand. So where did that GO?

Get my point?

It was never there! It was all just digits, numbers on a spread sheet, and the facts are - those spreadsheets were like fake books that someone keeps on the side to fool Uncle Sam and avoid paying IRS taxes . . . My mutual fund was permeated w/ VALUE-LESS securities and when that was discovered - POOF!!!! DIGITS GONE!!! 90000 subtracted.

But . . . we call those spreadsheets BALANCE SHEETS . . . so if it was taken off one side of the Balance Sheet . . . it was added to another side of someone's balance sheet . . . so WHERE DID IT GO? Oh, yeah . . . provision for BAD DEBT. But what does that mean? Anyone following this? Where did those digits - 90000 - get moved to and how did they disappear? Who determines VALUE???? Did someone get my 90000 on their books and then use it to pay a bonus to some exec at Merrill Lynch? Did someone get my 90000 digits and apply it to a bad mortgage somewhere so their balance sheet could show a 0 instead of -90000?

WHERE DID MY MONEY GO???????? Where did YOUR money go???

Now, that is the bottom line of the bottom line. We have all accepted this system - the Federal Reserve System - and we all choked when we got our statements showing our losses - but no one has said . . . WHERE DID IT GO???? LOSSES? You mean . . . b/c some SOB who over-extended himself in Nevada defaulted on his mortgage, the number 90000 got taken away from my account? WHAAATTTT????

Sure. I know there are economists and financial experts who will say I have over-simplified this . . . but have I really?

We, the People have been the bag boys. We are left holding the bag. While stockbrokers and financiers all over the world traded off securities and bought and sold on the stock markets across the world, We, the People were waking up, going to work, feeding our families and doing what we were taught we were SUPPOSED TO DO to provide for our families and our future . . . and a big game was being played . . . the financial sector was playing musical chairs with our money. . . and we did not know it. We did not know that we had BOUGHT CHIPS in a gambling casino when we were putting our money into those reputable mutual funds. And now the game is over - and we are left holding the bag.

We, the People.

But it doesn't end there. The house of cards comes tumbling down and people start losing their jobs . . . so once again, We, the People are now standing in the middle of a securities toxic waste dump.

So I say . . . We, the People need to stand up and demand a place at the table.

Class war? Not is the classical sense. But if you look at the situation from the perspective of each of us being USED and ABUSED by the FINANCIAL CLASS . . . hmmmm. Maybe we should be calling it a Economic Class War - the Worker Bees rebelling against the machinations of the Financial Class. And that "war" should permeate every social class, economic class, age demorgraphic, etc in this country - b/c everyone at every level of wealth has been hit by the games that have been played by the Financial Class.

Let's face it. Someone was asleep at the Treasury, the SEC . . . and Congress . . . dear God they are idiots. Really. They are supposed to be OUR VOICE.

This all comes down to toxic securities being sold around the world and the Federal Government being required to do what it has guaranteed it would do - back those securities. Let's just tell the truth here. You and I are having to ante up so the Treasury can keep its promise to other government treasuries across the globe.

We, the People. We were not told what Franklin Raines had done. And where is that guy? Why is he not having to answer for this crap? Why won't anyone just come out and say it - our government backed securities that were SHELLS and over-valued, at that. Now, We the People have to ante up b/c our GOVERNMENT didn't pay attention!!!

So what are we protesting? Let's start w/ OUTSOURCING. By god, if you are an American corporation, you should be required to hire American personnel. Give us back our jobs.

Part of this game of financial wealth has been played in boardrooms, where the main concern is increasing STOCK PRICES (value) so that stockholders of the corporation make BIGGER DIVIDENDS. So corporations have found ways to outsource labor and cut cost, thus - more money in the coffers, more VALUE in the company, better stock prices - and BIGGER STOCK DIVIDENDS.

It used to be corporations were vested in the community where they were located. Well, not any more. Companies can do business globally w/ no consequences (i.e., government imposed consequences, such as increased taxes). We, the People need to make it clear to Congress that we want AMERICAN GOODs, produced in AMERICAN FACTORIES and anything imported needs to have the hell taxed out of it. Oh yeah, China is suffering. Well, they couldn't wait to get our greedy manufacturers over to their soil so they could line up cheap labor and produce faulty goods that We, the People would consume . . . THANKS, Congress, for making that possible. See what your trade agreements got us. Melamine in dog food. Lead in toys. And American workers without jobs!!!!

Isolationism? Protectionism? The erudite amongst us have words to label a movement demanding American companies hire American workers. And we are to feel bad about it. Social consciousness - help the starving people in China and Indonesia. How about We, the People helping ourselves? I say it is not isolationism or protectionism but SELF PRESERVATION - and what the hell is wrong with that?

So . . . We, the People should ask Congress to demand that the American public's jobs are PRESERVED. You tell me - How have these Trade Agreements done a damn thing for the masses - for the worker bees out there - you and me? All they have done is make it possible for stockholders to make higher dividends. THINK ABOUT IT. What has occurred is that money has been taken out of YOUR and MY POCKETS (job loss due to outsourcing and corporations relocating to foreign soils) and transferred to STOCKHOLDERS of greedy companies.

So how about we start w/ protesting Trade Agreements that have allowed Corporations across the country to ship our jobs off American soil? If that were stopped, it would put a halt to GREED in the Board room . . . and open jobs so we can all GET BACK TO WORK and pay off our debts and create some financial security in our own families.

Self preservation. Self determination. These were the words our country was founded upon. What the hell happened along the way????? ASK CONGRESS TO EXPLAIN IT. Ask our President to explain it. Yes, this occurred on "someone else's watch" - these trade agreements. But we are where we are today.

I say - we should have a movement w/ some phrase like "Bring it Home" . . . Bring our jobs home, bring our wealth home. Or - "It starts at Home" - values as well as jobs all begin at the Grassroots level. Congress needs to respond to We, the People, who they supposedly represent. We the people have a solution: BRING OUR JOBS HOME and STOP CORPORATE GREED.

And if we all join together to speak as ONE VOICE . . . maybe "the eggheads will finally get it."
Ani, as usual I agree with you.

When the banks got deregulated all I could say to people when it was discussed was, those regulations were put there to prevent another depression, removing them will create problems. Some people laughed at me & others agreed. Some of the deregulations worked better than others, but none of it was done for the benefit of the general public. I am not advocating socialism, but there needs to be a balance & that means rules for the companies to operate under.

I am also very offended by these fancy "rewards". All I ask is to get paid a decent liveable wage. I don't like "company outings" etc. . If I want to socialize with a co-worker I can make plans to do that on my own, thanks. I don't need to have a company organize it for me.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,193 posts, read 4,535,870 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post

Can you even imagine how the rest of the world feels about America right now?
The world blames us: FT.com / UK - Wen and Putin criticise western leaders at Davos

"Mr Putin mocked American delegates who had talked at last year's Davos gathering about the US economy's "fundamental stability and its cloudless prospects", saying that "investment banks, the pride of Wall Street, have virtually ceased to exist".
Mr Wen made scathing comments about the "inappropriate macroeconomic policies" of some unnamed countries and the "unsustainable model of development characterised by prolonged low savings and high consumption".
He attacked financial "blind pursuit of profit" and their "lack of self-discipline"."


Quote:


WHERE DID MY MONEY GO???????? Where did YOUR money go???
The money is gone. The problem is our monetary system and fractional reserve lending. Money = debt. Money is created through debt. So if someone defaults on debt, the money is gone/destroyed.

A bank has say $100, the bank can 'create' $900 from that $100 through loaning it out to someone. But if that person defaults on that additional $900, then the money is gone and no one gets it.

Banks used to have a 9:1 leverage. So they could only create 9 times more than their reserve amount (which in the above example is $100). But they began leverage like 40:1 and went to excess. I think by getting rid of fractional reserve lending, this could potentially resolve the issues. Also getting rid of the Fed might help too as our Government should be the ones who create money NOT the Fed.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
123 posts, read 270,745 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
WHERE DID MY MONEY GO???????? Where did YOUR money go???
To China....
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,023,037 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by abcornwell View Post
Ani - wow you're good. Read this - Is President Obama losing the stimulus battle? | Salon

A quote:

" These problems have been building since at least the 1970s. Here's how Reich laid it out on Salon:

"The bursting of the housing bubble caused the current crisis, but the underlying problem began much earlier -- in the late 1970s, when median U.S. incomes began to stall. Because wages got hit then by the double-whammy of global competition and new technologies, the typical American family was able to maintain its living standard only if women went into the workforce in larger numbers, and later, only if everyone worked longer hours.

When even these coping mechanisms were exhausted, families went into debt -- a strategy that was viable as long as home values continued to rise. But when the housing bubble burst, families were no longer able to easily refinance and take out home-equity loans. The result: Americans no longer have the money to keep consuming. When you consider that consumers make up 70 percent of the economy, the magnitude of the problem becomes apparent.

What happened to the money? According to researchers Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez, since the late 1970s, a greater and greater share of national income has gone to people at the top of the earnings ladder. As late as 1976, the richest 1 percent of the country took home about 9 percent of the total national income. By 2006, they were pocketing more than 20 percent. But the rich don't spend as much of their income as the middle class and the poor do -- after all, being rich means that you already have most of what you need. That's why the concentration of income at the top can lead to a big shortfall in overall demand and send the economy into a tailspin. (It's not coincidental that 1928 was the last time that the top 1 percent took home more than 20 percent of the nation's income.)""

Sign me up for the "We the People" theme.
Excellent resource, AB!! Thanks so much for sharing this!

I started to add to my rant the whole dilemma that middleclass America has faced w/ debt. We can no longer put aside the cash to pay outright for that car - or our kids' educations. We have had to rely on debt mechanisms - be it loans or credit cards (or HELOC/ELC's) to purchase things that families used to try to put money aside for and buy with CASH. We truly have become a debtor society, but it has not been b/c we were irresponsible. There was no way to get that education or that car w/o DEBT.

And we became a two-income family. That was the only way we could afford a house, a car, and educating our kids.

Now the jobs are gone! It takes two people to meet the bills . . . one is laid off . . . the downslide starts. For some families, BOTH earners are laid off.

Anyone notice that ESC announced that NC is running out of money to pay for everyone's unemployment claims???

What happens next?
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
616 posts, read 1,565,925 times
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Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post

Anyone notice that ESC announced that NC is running out of money to pay for everyone's unemployment claims???

What happens next?
Yup - they are going to tap a $540 million line of credit from the Federal Government. They paid out $160 million in December. How long with the LOC last?
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