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Old 02-08-2009, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
2,447 posts, read 6,641,576 times
Reputation: 1389

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Quote:
Also today my opinion is that people move to areas where they feel safe and maybe it 'seems like it's white flight.' But I think it has less to do with race today and more to do with whereever they feel safe. If so called 'undesirables' move into an area, people will move. But those undesirables could be of any race, what makes them undesirable is that they are doing drugs, beating people, stealing, etc.

Anyway that's my two cents.
+1 for you!
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,998,726 times
Reputation: 22369
Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
No, you said Charlotte did not have a problem with Redlining because
"Black communities basically wished to stay intact and black families did not wish to leave those communities for the burbs."

and I asked where you got your information. Your statement sounds like you are saying that Blacks liked NOT having the CHOICE to live in any neighborhood. That they LIKED not being allowed to live in whatever neighborhood they could afford. When you do not have a CHOICE and your are forced to create our OWN institution b/c you are not allowed in other's, that creates a 2-tiered system.

I am telling you that you are wrong. There was NO CHOICE and I'm not sure why you think there was.


Again, you are plain wrong. I am pulling directly from your statement. If you think Blacks were able to live ANYWHERE they wanted in Charlotte or any of the surounding areas, you need to do a little research. Take a visit to the Museaum of the South or pull out some history texts. That was absolutly NOT the case in the 1960s.
Baybook - I am not trying to be contentious with you, but you keep changing eras. Redlining has been illegal for decades. You talk about "white flight" that you say is going on NOW, then you switch back to redlining as if this happened five years ago . . . I honestly don't know what your point is.

In the last forty years - and especially in the last 20 years - black families have been able to choose where they wanted to live - just as anyone else has - b/c this city has been fully integrated. The only thing that determines WHERE PEOPLE CAN LIVE IS $$$$ - HOW MUCH THEY CAN AFFORD. Where they CHOOSE to live is a wholly different matter.

The Feds have filed cases against any landlord, even, who has shown preference for renting to one race or excluding another. If you look around, you will see all apartment complexes are integrated - black, white, asian, hispanic. If someone is POOR (wh/ is what this thread is about) then they are limited to where they can live b/c they have no money - or have to choose Section 8 housing b/c they are depending on Sec. 8 subsidies. This has nothing to do w/ Redlining!!!

Do you even know what Redlining is? If a person can qualify for a loan, no loan officer is going to keep that person from getting a loan based on his/her color! And that has been true for decades!!!

The poor people in this state are all colors. If there are more poor blacks in Charlotte city limits than poor whites, it is b/c they have chosen to stay in Charlotte city limits - or they didn't have the money to get subsidized housing somewhere else. That is my whole point! Black folk can load up the car and live out in the country along w/ white folk if they choose to do so. No one is keeping them IN Charlotte and no one is keeping them from moving OUT of Charlotte.

This is a specious argument.
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:33 PM
 
2,341 posts, read 4,044,893 times
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For the record, there is not ONE post where I have mentioned or chimed in on the white flight argument. You must have me confused with someone else. My response was to your statement. See below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Yes, there are historical implications - but we are talking forty years ago. And Charlotte has never had the problems that other larger cities did w/ redlining. Why? Black communities basically wished to stay intact and black families did not wish to leave those communities for the burbs.

Last edited by baybook; 02-08-2009 at 02:35 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,998,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
For the record, there is not ONE post where I have mentioned or chimed in on the white flight argument. You must have me confused with someone else. My response was to your statement. See below:
I am sorry - it does appear I confused some of what you had written w/ other statements. My bad. Apology accepted?

As for redlining - what I said is true!!! Charlotte has never had the problems w/ redlining that other cities had.

For ex., Redlining was a HUGE problem in Chicago - a city wh/ today is still one of the most segregated cities in the USA. Charlotte is a very integrated city. Redlining has been carefully monitored, especially since the 80s.

If anything - the credit crisis we are in right now is proof of how ancient a term "redlining" is. People of all colors were able to apply for - and get - no-doc loans and buy homes anywhere they wanted to, even if they couldn't afford them.

I am sorry if I am missing your point here. Redlining is in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And most certainly, in the last 20 years, anyone who could afford to buy a house wherever he/she wanted could do so. This city has had integrated neighborhoods in homes that were built after the 60s - in affluent areas as well as poorer neighborhoods.

SO why are black folks staying in basically segregated neighborhoods? If they wanted to leave, they could have. That has been their choice to stay in their own communities.
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:51 PM
 
2,341 posts, read 4,044,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I am sorry - it does appear I confused some of what you had written w/ other statements. My bad. Apology accepted?
Of course!
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:58 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,998,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
Of course!
Thank you, Bay!

And I have enjoyed the banter w/ you.

I fear, tho, that my trying to explain the history of the development of black communities here in Charlotte - and why there are pockets of poverty in this city - that I may have come across as unconcerned.

All poverty is of concern, especially when it comes to children raised in poverty. What ticked me off is that national media has now used our "free lunch program" applications as a way to describe Charlotte, and that is inaccurate.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 88,286,039 times
Reputation: 39844
Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
No, you said Charlotte did not have a problem with Redlining because
"Black communities basically wished to stay intact and black families did not wish to leave those communities for the burbs."

and I asked where you got your information. Your statement sounds like you are saying that Blacks liked NOT having the CHOICE to live in any neighborhood. That they LIKED not being allowed to live in whatever neighborhood they could afford. When you do not have a CHOICE and your are forced to create our OWN institution b/c you are not allowed in other's, that creates a 2-tiered system.

I am telling you that you are wrong. There was NO CHOICE and I'm not sure why you think there was.


Again, you are plain wrong. I am pulling directly from your statement. If you think Blacks were able to live ANYWHERE they wanted in Charlotte or any of the surounding areas, you need to do a little research. Take a visit to the Museaum of the South or pull out some history texts. That was absolutly NOT the case in the 1960s.
Baybrook, I think you are misunderstanding what Ani was trying to say...

And most people today understand that prior to the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's black people did not always have the same rights as the rest of the population. They did not have the power (as a voting block) for instance to prevent the distruction of their beloved "Brooklyn" neighborhood right here in Charlotte when it was time to construct the I277 loop.

No one (especially Ani) is saying black people could always live anywhere they chose to - segregation was alive and well and many of us are old enough to remember it. What she was saying was, especially in Charlotte, we had tight knit black neighborhoods that were good places that black people considered "home". They CHOSE to continue living there, and many still do, because that is where their church was, their extended families, their history. Many of them became upwardly mobile but still wanted to remain in their lifelong community - that was their choice.

The difference today is that we are no longer segregated by race - we are segregated by money and education. If you've got the money/education you live anywhere you damn well please in this city or anywhere else in the country. Less money means you have fewer options on where you are going to live - it is simple economics.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,193 posts, read 4,534,610 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post

If a person can qualify for a loan, no loan officer is going to keep that person from getting a loan based on his/her color! And that has been true for decades!!!
Not to make light of this discussion, but I think loan officers are more concerned with making any loan as long as the person has a job and some money! I doubt they are caring about the color of a person as every penny counts to bring food on the table!
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:37 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,998,726 times
Reputation: 22369
Sheenie, thank you so much for stepping in and helping me explain what I was trying to say. That is totally what I was trying to point out - that today (not prior to the Civil Rights Act) we are all limited to where we can live based on what we can afford. We can all live where we choose to live, in other words, as long as we can either pay the rent or mortgage.
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Old 02-08-2009, 05:09 PM
 
830 posts, read 1,314,869 times
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I do think that it's important to make a distinction between segregation under the law, and de facto segregation. Some of it may be self-selecting, but there are other factors at play. Local governments had a lot of say in zoning/eminent domain, as well as where to locate public housing, low-income housing, etc...decisions that have ramifications today, long after some of those buildings have been torn down.

Deed restrictions in neighborhoods like Myers Park could, and were used to keep out blacks, as well as poor whites. Just like co-op boards in places like New York, these neighborhood deed restrictions could be applied at the whim of a neighborhood...and Myers Park was wealthy enough and politically connected enough to keep itself as an enclave of wealth and privilege while less wealthy and connected neighorhoods went downhill.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the University area, for example. Just today, an article in the Observer highlighted it as an area beset by foreclosures. And there have certainly been many posts on this very forum warning that Northlake is in danger of turning into another Eastland, something that is not viewed positively.
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