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Thread summary:

Charlotte economy losing jobs, seeking information from citizens on financial plans, move away from Charlotte for job, stay in Charlotte, starting a new business, going back to school

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Old 02-19-2009, 05:52 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,016,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amploud View Post
These 4 words are the post of the year. Jameson Irish Whiskey almost came out of my nose. (Almost... I know better than to waste "the good stuff!")
I thought it was rather brilliant, as well, LOL!!!!

And for god's sake, AMP . . . don't waste good Irish whiskey!!!!
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Old 02-19-2009, 05:55 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,144,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
You know, back when I was in college, we really dug in on Marxism and I was so glad, b/c I truly wanted to understand that system. I think we all need to examine what path we are being led down. And in many ways, anyone who has studied Marxism knows that the move towards that system is usually a natural progression in times of recession. People start a grassroots movement, b/c they think this is how to solve the economic problems. And if you have a leader guiding people down the path, introducing subtle changes as "the light at the end of the tunnel" - people don't even realize where they have arrived until after they have bought into the whole regime.

No one suggested this to me . . . I have just been thinking about that stimulus bill . . . and the mindset people seem to be in. We are all angry. We are especially angry about the greed and irresponsibility. That mindset is ripe for Marxist solutions. Feels like an economic class war on the horizon . . . the very rich (who have been greedy and self-serving - especially the greedy corporate types) are not suffering. We don't care if they lost millions. We want them to suffer as we have. We want them to make some kind of reparation and we are angry that they are walking off unscathed - and their actions have caused millions to lose their jobs.
I agree totally. Also when the "leadership" campaigns on a platform of redistribution of wealth, entitlements for the "middle class" and a more restrictive government, all for the sake of "change", I can see the battle lines being drawn. I view it more as the victimization of the middle class, for political and personal gain. I don't recall this push towards a Marxist society, being the case in the 70s, when the last big depression was going on. Maybe the divide between the classes wasn't as prevalent or maybe since I didn't have two nickels to rub together, I just didn't see it.
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,105,221 times
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Well, speaking as someone who has worked very hard all of her life (and struggled to survive), I may have a different opinion.

My son lived in England for 3 years and attended a premier university for his field. His health care was free. His tuition was dirt cheap because the "out of country" tuition for international students was subsidized by the government. (residents go to University for free). He did not have to buy books as it was required that they were kept in the library for the students to use. And, the library was open late at night and on weekends to accommodate the student's assignments.

We also have friends that live there. I posted this on another thread. The husband became permanently disabled. Between the county, town that he lived in and the national health care system, he had his home remodeled to accommodate his disability. He is in a wheelchair and his house is kind of like one of our row houses. They built him an elevator so he could go upstairs to go to bed. All of this is free. He pays no taxes, they subsidized his mortgage (he paid it off earlier this year)and they give his wife a stipend to stay at home to care for him. They even give his son a stipend to go to University. This is in addition to his totally free health care and drug coverage. Lately, due to his condition, they have been giving him another stipend towards seeking other treatment elsewhere (or abroad) if he wants to. Or, he can just save that money.

When I was there and had a bad accident with my arm, all of the treatments that I received (including seeing an orthopedic surgeon several times in a two-week period & numerous X-rays were free. The care that I received there was far superior to the care that I ended up with when I came home to Charlotte.

Now, I don't know what label you would put on services like these...but, I call them fantastic!! How much better would our lives be if we did not have to constantly worry about our health and what would happen if there was an accident....

Mind you, this is in England. Across the pond. Not Russia or China.
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:32 PM
 
852 posts, read 2,214,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Well, speaking as someone who has worked very hard all of her life (and struggled to survive), I may have a different opinion.

My son lived in England for 3 years and attended a premier university for his field. His health care was free. His tuition was dirt cheap because the "out of country" tuition for international students was subsidized by the government. (residents go to University for free). He did not have to buy books as it was required that they were kept in the library for the students to use. And, the library was open late at night and on weekends to accommodate the student's assignments.

We also have friends that live there. I posted this on another thread. The husband became permanently disabled. Between the county, town that he lived in and the national health care system, he had his home remodeled to accommodate his disability. He is in a wheelchair and his house is kind of like one of our row houses. They built him an elevator so he could go upstairs to go to bed. All of this is free. He pays no taxes, they subsidized his mortgage (he paid it off earlier this year)and they give his wife a stipend to stay at home to care for him. They even give his son a stipend to go to University. This is in addition to his totally free health care and drug coverage. Lately, due to his condition, they have been giving him another stipend towards seeking other treatment elsewhere (or abroad) if he wants to. Or, he can just save that money.

When I was there and had a bad accident with my arm, all of the treatments that I received (including seeing an orthopedic surgeon several times in a two-week period & numerous X-rays were free. The care that I received there was far superior to the care that I ended up with when I came home to Charlotte.

Now, I don't know what label you would put on services like these...but, I call them fantastic!! How much better would our lives be if we did not have to constantly worry about our health and what would happen if there was an accident....

Mind you, this is in England. Across the pond. Not Russia or China.
People in this country are terribly scared of free medical treatment. They seem to think it's inferior - but yet they will go to Duke or Sloane Kettering and see doctors that have trained in the countries that offer free medicine. Yes you have to go on a waiting list, but I have seen people here wait to see a dermatologist for months because word has gotten around that they are good. It's the same. You don't have a choice in your doctor where there is a social welfare system but it works. My mother was diagnosed with a tumour on her kidney on a monday and was in hospital (free) having it removed on Tuesday. She recoverd in hospital for 2 weeks (yes two weeks not 10 hours). Yes she was on a ward with others but on that ward was a nurses station and it was manned 24 hours a day keeping a eye on each patient. Recently my friend was in hospital here, locked away in a private room with tv, bathroom, luxury but if he needed a nurse he had to ring a bell. He was in no position to so he had friends and family stay with him 24hours. I dread to think what his bill was. So whatever happens in the recession the stress that will engulf people because they can't afford health care will take years to leave them.
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:40 PM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 10,034,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Now, I don't know what label you would put on services like these...but, I call them fantastic!! How much better would our lives be if we did not have to constantly worry about our health and what would happen if there was an accident....

Mind you, this is in England. Across the pond. Not Russia or China.
In the 80s, during a large family vacation, my father had some heart problems.
He was treated in a London hospital with great care and we never received a bill.
Never paid a dime to be honest and they were fantastic and uber professional.

We have a 'sickness medical system' where most of the modern world has a 'wellness system'.
Keeping people on drugs pays where a wellness system does not pay...

As a child traveling with my family in San Francisco in the early 70s with a bad chest cold they had to pay $1xxx for my care when on vacation.
My father had heart problems out of country and the cost was nothing.
Draw your own conclusion.
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,105,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smclarke4 View Post
People in this country are terribly scared of free medical treatment. They seem to think it's inferior - but yet they will go to Duke or Sloane Kettering and see doctors that have trained in the countries that offer free medicine. Yes you have to go on a waiting list, but I have seen people here wait to see a dermatologist for months because word has gotten around that they are good. It's the same. You don't have a choice in your doctor where there is a social welfare system but it works. My mother was diagnosed with a tumour on her kidney on a monday and was in hospital (free) having it removed on Tuesday. She recoverd in hospital for 2 weeks (yes two weeks not 10 hours). Yes she was on a ward with others but on that ward was a nurses station and it was manned 24 hours a day keeping a eye on each patient. Recently my friend was in hospital here, locked away in a private room with tv, bathroom, luxury but if he needed a nurse he had to ring a bell. He was in no position to so he had friends and family stay with him 24hours. I dread to think what his bill was. So whatever happens in the recession the stress that will engulf people because they can't afford health care will take years to leave them.
I completely agree. I know that it is having a toll on my health! And, I suppose that the fear that people have over free health care is that they are afraid that we are becoming like a communist country. I have been to communist countries and I can assure everyone that the situation in England is as far away from being communist as we are!

I hope that your mum does well with her treatment and I know that you are relieved that, at least, she won't loose her home because of the hospital bill!
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:50 PM
 
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Default Yeah but....

Patients in the UK. who receive "free" (actually taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. Care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as Tylenol. Who pays for that? Free health care greatly reduces a Drs. incentive to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments. Without those incentives to provide quality care, Drs. and nurses leave the government-controlled arena for better opportunities in a freer country. This creates shortages of qualified care providers who actually give a darn about their patients beyond what the govít says that have to.

Free healthcare might be a nice thing to have, just like a new bike at Christmas time. However, no one has a "right" to force others to provide these things - All "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people. The quality of free health care can no way be on par with private providers and the average person will get sicker. As the poor and middle-class wait for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment. Medical Tourism in India is a thriving industry with most of their patients coming from the US or the UK. Also with taxpayer subsidized health care, your problems are mine and mine are yours. If you eat lots of pizza, smoke ciggies or drive a motorcycle without a helmet, I have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a provider on my tax dollars. Your neighbors might support government bans on smoking, "unsafe" sex or other "risky" behaviors to reduce costs. Politicians will use the federal bureaucracy to force you and your family to comply with programs such as the manditory monthly waist line measurements that happen now in Japan. Do you want to go get measured every month and if you donít hit your numbers you write the check on the way out

Whoever blindly supports a system that bestows power on politicians like what is happening right now, here in this country, they will receive their orders from those with the most money - and this will not be me, you, your friends, your neighbors or your family. The power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies. A very easy and quick google search shows that drug companies donated over a billion and a half dollars to political campaigns in the last 20 years. Who do you think has the ear of those elected politicians?
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,105,221 times
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"Whoever blindly supports a system that bestows power on politicians like what is happening right now, here in this country, they will receive their orders from those with the most money - and this will not be me, you, your friends, your neighbors or your family. The power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies. A very easy and quick google search shows that drug companies donated over a billion and a half dollars to political campaigns in the last 20 years. Who do you think has the ear of those elected politicians?"

I won't debate the rest of your post because it is obvious that you are only talking about written research and things that you have read...not actual, real-life experiences as was presented to you. (some of which were from actual residents of another country!)

However, this last paragraph has me puzzled. How do you think that the situation that is occurring today is any different than what already exists? (Assuming, of course, that this is what will happen) I currently have no choice in the medicines that I am prescribed...does not matter what the doctor says...the insurance co. says that THIS med is better, so, if I don't take IT, then, they will triple my co-pay! Treatments are routinely refused as being unnecessary by greedy insurance companies. I can cite many more stories of poor medical treatment (that was paid for) in this country than in England where it is not paid for. The medical industry in this country is just as greedy as the financial industry and without regulation, will kill the population off by the lack of affordable care.

Just ask anyone who is out of work or underemployed with a medical condition. Ask them if free health care would be something that would make their lives easier. If you have not been there, ...either unemployed or having lived in a country and used the system...you really cannot form an opinion, can you?
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:08 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,016,830 times
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BUT BUT BUT - the healthcare system in UK socialist but their system is not Marxist. We are mixing apples with oranges.

The thing is - no matter how much we might want universal h/c in this country . . . people do not realize the changes this would entail in the DELIVERY of healthcare. Now, this thread ain't the place to get into all that - I have done it soooooo many times on other threads. This is my area of expertise and I can surely write about this country's healthcare system for days.

Also - docs in countries w/ universal h/c only make a FRACTION of what our docs do. So our whole system would have to be turned upside down to make this cost effective.

Believe me - the chances of your getting all the docs across this country to agree to work for 1/8 - 1/10 of what they work for now . . . GOOD LUCK. I hear docs whining over $750,000.

And technology. We have MRs, CTs, etc on every corner these days. NOT SO in the UK and Canada. That technology has cost us dearly! We are paying for that when we get charged $5 for an aspirin.

I could go on and on.

But what I am talking about is our overall economic system . . . banking (nationalized???) . . . wages . . . education . . . look where we are moving!

When you start telling me that you are going to take from me and give it to the guys who are upside down on their mortgages . . . and take my tax $$$ to pay off someone else's mortgage to save them from foreclosure . . . I mean - HELLO . . . that is simply redistribution of wealth!

We are being asked to sacrifice FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

If that ain't Marxism, what is?????
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I thought it was rather brilliant, as well, LOL!!!!

And for god's sake, AMP . . . don't waste good Irish whiskey!!!!

If anything it sounds like amploud's about to turn the whiskey world on it's ear with the new Single Snot Malt.


mmmmmmmm...sounds like Bushmills is about to get a run for it's money.
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