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Old 03-11-2009, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,043 posts, read 11,584,550 times
Reputation: 1392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullman View Post
Just in case you have not noticed, 90% of CLT is still working...
At least today.
During the depths of the Great Depression about 70% of people were working and many fortunes were being made.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:18 PM
 
276 posts, read 417,271 times
Reputation: 232
Default Google is Your Friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkleoni1 View Post
I am trying to figure it if you are exaggerating or being serious. If you are being serious then I feel sorry for the people you have to deal with your Chicken Little, the sky is falling declarations. Consumer confidence does matter b/c there are plenty of people out there with money to spend but will not do it b/c of fear instilled in them from our daily headlines. It is not about lying it is about choosing where to put the focus.
1. Go to Google.
2. Enter the search term "quadrillion derivative".
3. Start reading.
4. Enter the search term "credit default swap"
5. Start reading.
The 1.2 to 1.4 quadrillion figures you will read only reflect Wall Street. Worldwide, there is another 600 trillion to 800 trillion exposure.

Last edited by wsobchak; 03-11-2009 at 02:13 PM..
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 10,039,193 times
Reputation: 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsobchak View Post
Watch. You won't have to wait long. Entire continents are on the verge of collapse.
Wow, 'Debbie-Downer' has nothing on you.

Seriously though, maybe it's time to reset the debt clock like someone mentioned yesterday.
We have arrived at the point where the debt can never be paid, and therefore shouldn't.

Here is an oldie but a goody on what is wrong with the current banking system where assets are based on debts.
The end becomes a little wacky, but this simplifies what is wrong on the core.

http://www.relfe.com/plus_5_.html

Last edited by mullman; 03-11-2009 at 02:11 PM..
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn NY
18 posts, read 46,665 times
Reputation: 18
Wsobchak, that was scary to read.

Basically, what if anything can be done to save the US and other countries IYO?
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,193 posts, read 4,538,026 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullman View Post
Wow, 'Debbie-Downer' has nothing on you.

Seriously though, maybe it's time to reset the debt clock like someone mentioned yesterday.
We have arrived at the point where the debt can never be paid, and therefore shouldn't.

Here is an oldie but a goody on what is wrong with the current banking system where assets are based on debts.
The end becomes a little wacky, but this simplifies what is wrong on the core.

I Want the Earth Plus 5%. The truth about money, credit and the deficit
Awesome story. Some key points:

"No one realised that as a whole, the country could never get out of debt until all the coins were repaid, but even then, there were those extra 5 on each 100 which had never been lent out at all. No one but Fabian could see that it was impossible to pay the interest - the extra money had never been issued, therefore someone had to miss out.....
Most had forgotten the real wealth all around - the fertile soils, the great forests, the minerals and cattle. They could think only of the money which always seemed so scarce. But they never questioned the system. They believed the Government was running it...Ask yourself why it was that depressions happened. All that went missing from the community was the money to buy goods and services. The labour was still available. The work to be done was still there. The materials had not disappeared, and the goods were readily available in the shops, or could be produced but for the want of money."
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,276,820 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsobchak View Post
Let's see..... the government and media should deliberately deceive the public so profiteers can continue to sell those poorly-built, over-sized, over-priced, comically-anachronistic looking toxic assets.

Sounds like a message forum I know.

In reality, the government and media deception has been going on for the last eight years, and is going on as I write.

Here are a few bullet points.


THIS COLLAPSE WAS UNIVERSALLY PREDICTED SIX YEARS AGO BY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW

Hundreds of economists predicted this collapse six years ago, and with 100% surety. I have saved hundreds of files over the last six years to that affect. Alan Greenspan (a central party to this premeditated scandal) publicly predicted four years ago that 22% of homes would be foreclosed. He will have been deliberately optimistic by some 10 - 15%.

Was this reported in the media? Yes, but barely and on back pages. Where has the media been for the last eight years? .... Being good corporate lap dogs.


AMERICANS DO NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO AFFORD THESE HOUSE PRICES

According to economists, the price of a middle-class house should track to gross median family income. In 1950, the gross median income was 2K; the cost of a middle-class house was 2K. In 1980, when Premeditated Housing Scandal I began, the gross income was 30K; the cost of a house was 34K (1982).

The current gross income is 47K. According to economists the maximum house price someone who makes 47K could prudently afford is ..... 47K.

When was the last time you heard anyone in the government or the media suggest that housing costs are too high (maybe 10 times too high)?


THIS WAS A 100% PREMEDITATED SCANDAL

This was a premeditated scandal, from the lifting of bank restrictions, to the building of hundreds extended-stay motels for the "guest" workers, to the IPOing of corporate builders, to the building of grossly-oversized and gross-overpriced (and hey, gross looking) toxic waste that most potential homeowners didn't want then and don't want now.

So they go after Madoff. It's his fault. A major bank CEO not far from here testifies before Congress and says "we have to figure out what went wrong".

Well he knows, and so do the American people. The American people are demanding mass prosecutions, not bailouts.


THIS IS NOT A SUB-PRIME MORTGAGE CRISIS

....As the media likes to report.

The houses built in the last eight years themselves are toxic assets, with little or no value. My non-scientific but sincerely implemented research and public polling over the last six years suggests that 70 -80% of people would not live in these things at any price - on aesthetics alone.

Hey, way to build white elephants.

But the mortgage meltdown merely exposed the real crisis, a crisis that is getting almost no attention in Congress or the media.

They took these worthless mortgages on worthless houses and sold 1.2 to 1.8 QUADRILLION dollars worth of phoney-baloney derivatives (or credit default swaps, CDSs, CDOs. All purportedly "insured" by the likes of AIG, who in fact, had no money behind them.

The Fed would have to run the presses day and night for 500 years to print that much money.

This isn't about "consumer confidence". It's about a potential TWO QUADRILLION bill that even the American taxpayer can't be expected to pay.

The real meltdown has barely started. Houses and jobs lost now. Local and state government soon to collapse (you would need a "stimulus package" in the tens of trillions to prevent this). Finally, and soon enough, the complete economic, governmental, and social collapse of most of the countries on Earth.

Watch. You won't have to wait long. Entire continents are on the verge of collapse. Yeah, right now. I think Antarctica is OK.

That's the real truth. Why aren't they reporting THAT?


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Old 03-11-2009, 05:05 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,052,657 times
Reputation: 22371
Well . . . I say . . . head to the hills, plant more corn and make your own white lightning, live off the land and watch the stars at nite.

I, for one, plan to keep on living regardless of what happens to our economy.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:12 PM
 
Location: between here and there
1,030 posts, read 2,768,562 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsobchak View Post
Let's see..... the government and media should deliberately deceive the public so profiteers can continue to sell those poorly-built, over-sized, over-priced, comically-anachronistic looking toxic assets.

Sounds like a message forum I know.

In reality, the government and media deception has been going on for the last eight years, and is going on as I write.

Here are a few bullet points.


THIS COLLAPSE WAS UNIVERSALLY PREDICTED SIX YEARS AGO BY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW

Hundreds of economists predicted this collapse six years ago, and with 100% surety. I have saved hundreds of files over the last six years to that affect. Alan Greenspan (a central party to this premeditated scandal) publicly predicted four years ago that 22% of homes would be foreclosed. He will have been deliberately optimistic by some 10 - 15%.

Was this reported in the media? Yes, but barely and on back pages. Where has the media been for the last eight years? .... Being good corporate lap dogs.


AMERICANS DO NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO AFFORD THESE HOUSE PRICES

According to economists, the price of a middle-class house should track to gross median family income. In 1950, the gross median income was 2K; the cost of a middle-class house was 2K. In 1980, when Premeditated Housing Scandal I began, the gross income was 30K; the cost of a house was 34K (1982).

The current gross income is 47K. According to economists the maximum house price someone who makes 47K could prudently afford is ..... 47K.

When was the last time you heard anyone in the government or the media suggest that housing costs are too high (maybe 10 times too high)?


THIS WAS A 100% PREMEDITATED SCANDAL

This was a premeditated scandal, from the lifting of bank restrictions, to the building of hundreds extended-stay motels for the "guest" workers, to the IPOing of corporate builders, to the building of grossly-oversized and gross-overpriced (and hey, gross looking) toxic waste that most potential homeowners didn't want then and don't want now.

So they go after Madoff. It's his fault. A major bank CEO not far from here testifies before Congress and says "we have to figure out what went wrong".

Well he knows, and so do the American people. The American people are demanding mass prosecutions, not bailouts.


THIS IS NOT A SUB-PRIME MORTGAGE CRISIS

....As the media likes to report.

The houses built in the last eight years themselves are toxic assets, with little or no value. My non-scientific but sincerely implemented research and public polling over the last six years suggests that 70 -80% of people would not live in these things at any price - on aesthetics alone.

Hey, way to build white elephants.

But the mortgage meltdown merely exposed the real crisis, a crisis that is getting almost no attention in Congress or the media.

They took these worthless mortgages on worthless houses and sold 1.2 to 1.8 QUADRILLION dollars worth of phoney-baloney derivatives (or credit default swaps, CDSs, CDOs. All purportedly "insured" by the likes of AIG, who in fact, had no money behind them.

The Fed would have to run the presses day and night for 500 years to print that much money.

This isn't about "consumer confidence". It's about a potential TWO QUADRILLION bill that even the American taxpayer can't be expected to pay.

The real meltdown has barely started. Houses and jobs lost now. Local and state government soon to collapse (you would need a "stimulus package" in the tens of trillions to prevent this). Finally, and soon enough, the complete economic, governmental, and social collapse of most of the countries on Earth.

Watch. You won't have to wait long. Entire continents are on the verge of collapse. Yeah, right now. I think Antarctica is OK.

That's the real truth. Why aren't they reporting THAT?
All true and well put. I'm not an economist by any stretch of the imagination yet about 3 years ago realized A) our gas couldn't keep shooting up without dire repercussions throughout our purchasing economy and B) houses do NOT double and triple in value overnight....so the writing was on the wall and this household paid off all debt, pulled money out of the market and yielded to a very fugual lifestyle...in the end, things are looking wayyyy better for us than most people we know....call me Henny Penny and the Sky is Falling but I can sleep at night....

Meanwhile, the former administration basked in the glow of a "booming" economy, when in reality, it was the Emperor Had No Clothes" (got a nursery rhyme thing goijng here).....how sad we will have those 8 years preempting any attempts to correct this sinking ship....

Take the worst case scenario and the best case scenario and walk to the middle, there you will find our recovery level....and it will result in lifestyles not of the rich and famous but of the inventive and conservative...do not give up but do not bury your head in the sand either.....the pendulum is swinging wildly right now and no one really knows when it will reach a healthy pace ESPECIALLY the government.....

If they did, we would not be here right now~~~~

It's time for some good ol' fashion Yankee Ingenuity (as in American; the M-D line is non-existent in this travesty)....step up to the plate y'all !!!!!
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Waxhaw, NC
494 posts, read 1,181,230 times
Reputation: 171
Friends...we have a real issue going on in this country with the Main Street Media not reporting facts. Things are going to get really bad. It will be impossible since we have spent TRILLIONS on crap over the past few months. We are way over our heads w/ all of borrowing and printing money. Now...once the cap and trade taxes hit, inflation from the USD not being worth a thing...and all the planned tax increases that will effect small businesses...we are going to be in deep doo-doo. Friends...buy gold if you can and save...save...save.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,276,820 times
Reputation: 2121
I'm grabbing a beer....
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