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Unread 04-08-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,186 posts, read 2,920,351 times
Reputation: 1051
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
We could have bought a nice little island, that's for sure!!!

Most people don't realize it takes from Jan to May to make enuff $$ to just pay for their withholding in any year! When one realizes this . . . it tends to make a person very wary about how government uses our dollars.

The latest figures I saw on the bailout were that it is costing each American - across the board, regardless of age - about $28,000. That is on top of what is taken out of our paychecks annually.

This, we have done for banks. They thank us by adding fees and changing terms on lines of credit and credit cards.
This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. They could have allowed the banks to fail and just allowed us to keep our future money based on OUR future production.

Banks produce nothing. Their sole purpose is to rob the productivity of society.
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Unread 04-08-2009, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Huntersville
1,852 posts, read 3,100,726 times
Reputation: 511
Then don't use the Banks.. Why do people feel they have to use them.. It is an option.

Banks produce nothing? They provide a safe environment for your money. They allow you to borrow money for larger items. Come on, I am not going to try and justify the comment "Banks do nothing". It's an evolution of commerce, finance and economics. We have evolved from mercantilsm and tribal commerce. Barter and trade is not going to work in 2010, especially for a capitalist free market productive society. We aren't going to change that. We can change how we do business though and create better practices, a better layer of security and continue to evolve. People are bitter right now and their angst is going against the Banks.. The IRS must be laughing at bankers right now. Healthcare naysayers have fallen off the front page. There always seems to be a bad guy in society. We pay too much taxes, but we want free healthcare. We want credit to buy things sooner, or cover us in times of needs but cry foul when those dollars are more expensive. The economic meltdown is not because of Banks, they were a part of the issue and now, possibly unfortunatley part of the solution. The process the global money. Could you imagine how you would get your money with no Banks? No more ATMs, No more Online Banking, No more Direct Deposit, No more checking, no more debit/credit cards. Society and Commerce would come to a hault. Unlike the car industry, nearly all monies flow through Banks. We do need them, thats why the gov'ts all over the World keep banks afloat.

Lastly.. and I know I beat a dead horse. The gov't invested in the Banks, are making good interest and it will cost the taxpayers nothing if they stay afloat, in fact the gov't will come out ahead. It can be a win win. The stimulus on the hand is tax payer funded, but I couldn't think of another way to infuse the economy. (different topic/time, but I think the gov't needs a better action plan to keep a certain amount of infrastructure in place and funded through long term federal programs and if our taxes go up a bit, so be it.)

Last edited by Whytewulf; 04-08-2009 at 12:00 PM..
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Unread 04-08-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: NE Charlotte, NC (University City)
1,894 posts, read 3,557,371 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
...And it's great for you that you helped Ramsey become even richer...
Funny thing is that I went through the course for free thanks to my church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
But STOP shoving his crap down every one's throat.
Wow. Defensive much? No one is shoving...the fact that you keep throwing up inaccurate comments about the lifestyle I'm suggesting just fuels the need for me to comment even more. It's not in my nature to let ignorance go unchecked. There's no need for me to shove because it's your money...waste it how you see fit.
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Unread 04-08-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,186 posts, read 2,920,351 times
Reputation: 1051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whytewulf View Post
Then don't use the Banks.. Why do people feel they have to use them.. It is an option.

Banks produce nothing? They provide a safe environment for your money. They allow you to borrow money for larger items. Come on, I am not going to try and justify the comment "Banks do nothing". It's an evolution of commerce, finance and economics. We have evolved from mercantilsm and tribal commerce. Barter and trade is not going to work in 2010, especially for a capitalist free market productive society. We aren't going to change that. We can change how we do business though and create better practices, a better layer of security and continue to evolve. People are bitter right now and their angst is going against the Banks.. The IRS must be laughing at bankers right now. Healthcare naysayers have fallen off the front page. There always seems to be a bad guy in society. We pay too much taxes, but we want free healthcare. We want credit to buy things sooner, or cover us in times of needs but cry foul when those dollars are more expensive. The economic meltdown is not because of Banks, they were a part of the issue and now, possibly unfortunatley part of the solution. The process the global money. Could you imagine how you would get your money with no Banks? No more ATMs, No more Online Banking, No more Direct Deposit, No more checking, no more debit/credit cards. Society and Commerce would come to a hault. Unlike the car industry, nearly all monies flow through Banks. We do need them, thats why the gov'ts all over the World keep banks afloat.

Lastly.. and I know I beat a dead horse. The gov't invested in the Banks, are making good interest and it will cost the taxpayers nothing if they stay afloat, in fact the gov't will come out ahead. It can be a win win. The stimulus on the hand is tax payer funded, but I couldn't think of another way to infuse the economy. (different topic/time, but I think the gov't needs a better action plan to keep a certain amount of infrastructure in place and funded through long term federal programs and if our taxes go up a bit, so be it.)
There is an alternative solution. Dennis Kucinech has proposed it. (You can google interest free dollars and his name).
Really the solution to this mess is only monetary reform.
1) The government finances itself
2) Convert federal reserve notes to US Treasury notes
3) Get rid of fractional reserve system and convert to full reserve system.
4) To inject liquidity all the government would have to do is give tax credits and if the money gets inflationary all they have to do is tax it back in

We could still use banks but only for a way to store money and keep online banking and all that.

They should NOT have the ability to create money at whim whenever they feel like it and stop lending money whenever they feel like it.

Society today HAS come to a halt. You have a huge portion of society who are able bodied and have the ability to produce but can't because the banks decided to stop lending.

I am all for a very small *representative* government, and they should have only two or three things in their power.
And that is:
1) Military
2) Helping the elderly and severely mentally/physically disabled
3) Money creation

Money creation needs to put back into the hands of the public NOT in the hands of private bankers where they suck the productive good of society by keeping most of society in debt slavery.
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Unread 04-08-2009, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
3,246 posts, read 2,409,704 times
Reputation: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallisteve View Post
Funny thing is that I went through the course for free thanks to my church.



Wow. Defensive much? No one is shoving...the fact that you keep throwing up inaccurate comments about the lifestyle I'm suggesting just fuels the need for me to comment even more. It's not in my nature to let ignorance go unchecked. There's no need for me to shove because it's your money...waste it how you see fit.
There's a whole bunch of Ramsey bandwagoneers out there. If it works for you, great! You have no idea about my finances. I'm not in debt up to my eyeballs. I live comfortably. I didn't max out my mortgage when I bought my house which was something my mortgage broker told me not to do. My realtor told me I should. I listened to the guy who got people into homes they could afford instead the nimrod who was looking for a sweet commission check.

My comments are NOT inaccurate! They're about MY life. How the hell do you know anything about my life? You DON'T!

I don't live hand to mouth or paycheck to paycheck. I want to enjoy my life while I am able to. There will come a time when I able to do nothing for myself except drool all over and not know who the hell anyone is. I am seeing this with several members of my family and they all say they wish they had done more in life. They can't enjoy life and they've got money, but they can't enjoy it. My husband's grandfather has a fortune from penny pinching and saving his whole life. Didn't do him a damn bit of good to stock pile it. He hasn't been able to walk in years and is bed ridden. He wishes he had done more and worried so much about saving every penny because he can't enjoy it now.

And I don't feel I am wasting our money. We work for it. We can use it as we see fit. So we spend it so what? If it offends you, too bad. It's our money. While you sit home, I'm out enjoying life. No one ever said I was living high on the hog. Just having a good time living. I've only got one life and I intend to live it to the fullest.

I didn't grow up with a pot to **** in. So yeah I like to buy things for myself and my house. But you know what, it takes SPENDING to keep business and the economy afloat. If everyone just held onto every single cent they made, there would be no economy or business. Yeah, that would be a wonderful world! You think we've got financial problems now? This is a spending spree compared to what it would be like if everyone lived your way and bought nothing.
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Unread 04-08-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Huntersville
1,852 posts, read 3,100,726 times
Reputation: 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheenie2000 View Post
There is an alternative solution. Dennis Kucinech has proposed it. (You can google interest free dollars and his name).
Really the solution to this mess is only monetary reform.
1) The government finances itself
2) Convert federal reserve notes to US Treasury notes
3) Get rid of fractional reserve system and convert to full reserve system.
4) To inject liquidity all the government would have to do is give tax credits and if the money gets inflationary all they have to do is tax it back in

We could still use banks but only for a way to store money and keep online banking and all that.

They should NOT have the ability to create money at whim whenever they feel like it and stop lending money whenever they feel like it.

Society today HAS come to a halt. You have a huge portion of society who are able bodied and have the ability to produce but can't because the banks decided to stop lending.

I am all for a very small *representative* government, and they should have only two or three things in their power.
And that is:
1) Military
2) Helping the elderly and severely mentally/physically disabled
3) Money creation

Money creation needs to put back into the hands of the public NOT in the hands of private bankers where they suck the productive good of society by keeping most of society in debt slavery.
Economics is a fun topic and there may be alternatives as you suggest. But even if what you say would happen, that is a significant and long process. So it disturbs me when people say just let Banks Fail. That is not a solution, that is a frustration comment. I do disagree with one of your comments, Banks don't create money on the whim. There are rules behind how they can lend. Yes things have gotten more paper these days, ie. it used to be people deposited 1000 dollars you can loan a percantage of that like 50%. Now its probably the opposite, especially at larger banks, $1000 deposited, means you can lend $2000.

As Adam Smith wrote: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages."
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Unread 04-08-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,186 posts, read 2,920,351 times
Reputation: 1051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whytewulf View Post
Economics is a fun topic and there may be alternatives as you suggest. But even if what you say would happen, that is a significant and long process. So it disturbs me when people say just let Banks Fail. That is not a solution, that is a frustration comment. I do disagree with one of your comments, Banks don't create money on the whim. There are rules behind how they can lend. Yes things have gotten more paper these days, ie. it used to be people deposited 1000 dollars you can loan a percantage of that like 50%. Now its probably the opposite, especially at larger banks, $1000 deposited, means you can lend $2000.

As Adam Smith wrote: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages."
I don't think letting the banks fail is a frustration comment (when I say it). I mean it. If we allow the banks and companies who took risky bets (like the CDSs) that have cost us billions fail, then the stronger banks can survivie. The ones who did the right thing. What is happening now, is the money is going to the people who did the wrong thing and became highly leveraged.

Will all this be painful, letting banks fail, yes definitely. But this long extended pain that everyone is going through is worse. I'd rather allow the failures to happen and let the strong and smart ones emerge.
Instead, competition is being destroyed and the big banks are becoming even bigger with them swallowing up other banks.

What will they do next, now that they are EVEN BIGGER?!

Btw, I like Adam Smith too.
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Unread 04-08-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: NE Charlotte, NC (University City)
1,894 posts, read 3,557,371 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
...
You're hellbent on ridiculing me and my *advice*, aren't you?

Your inaccurate comments are as follows:
- People who take Dave Ramsey's course serve a purpose to only make him more rich
- The Dave Ramsey thing is a "bandwagon"
- I'm shoving my advice down people's throats
- You think I think I know something about your debts
- You assume I think you live above your means...or that I even care what your means are
- You assume that paying cash for things means buying lesser quality or used
- You think a car loan saves people money
- Living responsibly is equated to living like a Monk

Your New York attitude of "butt out and don't worry about my business" is not how we operate here on this forum...so I'll echo your advice back at you: go cling somewhere else and suck the life out of a different forum's threads. We pride ourselves in taking a genuine interest in helping folks...including offering advice on how you might be able to better your financial situation. Sorry if that threatens your electronic "tougher than you's guy's" image.

If you're that discontent with my posts, tune me out...don't ruin a good conversation with negative chatter. It's giving me and many others a headache.
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Unread 04-08-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
3,246 posts, read 2,409,704 times
Reputation: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallisteve View Post
You're hellbent on ridiculing me and my *advice*, aren't you?

Your inaccurate comments are as follows:
- People who take Dave Ramsey's course serve a purpose to only make him more rich
- The Dave Ramsey thing is a "bandwagon"
- I'm shoving my advice down people's throats
- You think I think I know something about your debts
- You assume I think you live above your means...or that I even care what your means are
- You assume that paying cash for things means buying lesser quality or used
- You think a car loan saves people money
- Living responsibly is equated to living like a Monk

Your New York attitude of "butt out and don't worry about my business" is not how we operate here on this forum...so I'll echo your advice back at you: go cling somewhere else and suck the life out of a different forum's threads. We pride ourselves in taking a genuine interest in helping folks...including offering advice on how you might be able to better your financial situation. Sorry if that threatens your electronic "tougher than you's guy's" image.

If you're that discontent with my posts, tune me out...don't ruin a good conversation with negative chatter. It's giving me and many others a headache.
You wanna go tit for tat?

1. I NEVER said Ramsey followers were only out there to make him rich.
2. There are many finance gurus out there and they all have their own bandwagons.
3. By posting repeatedly your advice, you're shoving it down people;s throats.
4. I have said REPEATEDLY that you know NOTHING of my debts (maybe with some of that money you're stock piling you could get some reading comprehension lessons)
5. I never said paying for something means buying it used or a lessor quality.
6. I never said a car loan saves money.
7. I do live responsibly and don't live like a Monk nor do I plan on it.

Oh and I'll keep giving you a headache! I have no problem with that.

And for your ignorance about NY, I'll give you a little lesson! The NY attitude you NC folks love to complain about so much is NYC not the entire state! So many of you NC people on this forum are so rude it's not even funny. It's been noticed by other forums as there was a whole discussion about it.

If you don't like people from other states moving there, TOO BAD! This is America and people are allowed to live wherever they want. If it sucks so bad, succeed from the US! Form your own country and then deny admission. Oh wait you need the money from the out of staters buying your houses and buying crap. People like you make it hard to want to vacation in NC and give you people a dime. There's a lot of other Southern states who don't act like you folks.

And if I bother you so much, there's a real simple solution: STOP responding to my posts! What a challenging concept!
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Unread 04-08-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: NE Charlotte, NC (University City)
1,894 posts, read 3,557,371 times
Reputation: 973
Somebody hear something?
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