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Old 05-09-2009, 03:45 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,723 posts, read 7,928,007 times
Reputation: 3698

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMyTree View Post
No. Brain does not smoke.

I smoke, but never expose my non-smoking friends to my smoke.

How am I only thinking of myself, when I have repeated a hundred times that at least 50% of restaurants and bars are already completely smoke free and that there's plenty of places for them to go?

How am I thinkof myself when I don't own that type of business?

What I am ashamed of is people who call themselves Americans, taking such a selfish (me...me...me) approach to an issue that involves so many businesses and people. I'm ashamed of the unwillingness to compromise and respect business owner's rights. I'm ashamed of people who call themselves American, yet continue to support laws which are fundamentally against the American way.

I ashamed of Americans who already have 50% of the restaurantes and bars that are completely smoke free. But that's not fair enough for them. They have to have 100%. And that me dear, is shameful.
Since I really like the show "Deadliest Catch", I'll use the the commercial fishing analogy again.

So, if 50% of the boats/crews adhere to safety standards and practices, then the other 50% can do whatever they want, no matter how dangerous for the crew? I mean, seriously, the other folks could always just go work on the safe boats....

 
Old 05-09-2009, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,975 posts, read 17,556,376 times
Reputation: 5005
What I don't understand is why there was not a compromise...why they didn't allow the business owners to separate the areas if they wanted to and cater to smokers only there, unless I'm mistaken. What is evident in this ping-pong discussion is that attitudes about this goes beyond just smoking. And an earlier poster was right about certain posters' posts leaning toward expansion of government intervention in our lives. I hope that all of you who will now be free to patronize all those places you can't because smoking was allowed there tip your servers graciously to make up for the lost business from those who decide to stay at home. In the final analysis, when some of them (not all) would have felt the pinch of the law and be forced to downsize or out right close, life for you would go on as usual without as much as a blip.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 03:57 PM
 
1,163 posts, read 1,960,373 times
Reputation: 1106
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMyTree View Post
No. Brain does not smoke.

I smoke, but never expose my non-smoking friends to my smoke.

How am I only thinking of myself, when I have repeated a hundred times that at least 50% of restaurants and bars are already completely smoke free and that there's plenty of places for them to go?

How am I pnly thinking of myself when I don't own that type of business?

What I am ashamed of is people who call themselves Americans, taking such a selfish (me...me...me) approach to an issue that involves so many businesses and people. I'm ashamed of the unwillingness to compromise and respect business owner's rights. I'm ashamed of people who call themselves American, yet continue to support laws which are fundamentally against the American way.

I ashamed of Americans who already have 50% of the restaurantes and bars that are completely smoke free. But that's not fair enough for them. They have to have 100%. And that me dear, is shameful.
And you'd be right if smoking wasn't a proven carcinogen. It is not possible to separate the health implications and smoking. They are one in the same.

I've now heard it all: "Non-smokers" are the selfish and inconsiderate ones! I actually did laugh out loud at that thought.

I enjoy your description of yourself as a "considerate smoker." Pretty much every smoker I've ever read on the internet thinks they are a considerate smoker. They never smoke in public. They don't smoke around children. They don't throw butts out the car window. They don't smoke around people who wish to avoid it. Uh-huh. Apparently these considerate smokers rarely leave their computers because finding one "in the wild" is rare indeed...

You act like smokers can be a self sufficient little group that doesn't effect anyone else. Tell me then, why are billions of taxpayer dollars spent each year to treat the effects of smoking? Why are hundreds of millions of dollars of private health care premiums artificially inflated to help cover the cost of smoking-related illnesses?

Smokers Cost Taxpayers $10 Billion

Like it or not, smoking affects me even if I never see it or smell it again. Anyone who pays taxes or health insurance premiums is subsidizing the health effects of smoking. It's an undeniable fact.

I'm not after your right to smoke. I am more than happy for you to smoke on your personal property, unless children are present. I could care less if you smoke 5 packs tonight and chase it with shots of Draino, it is your right to make poor choices. Just do it at home.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,104,253 times
Reputation: 2323
Quote:
Originally Posted by amploud View Post
And you'd be right if smoking wasn't a proven carcinogen. It is not possible to separate the health implications and smoking. They are one in the same.

I've now heard it all: "Non-smokers" are the selfish and inconsiderate ones! I actually did laugh out loud at that thought.

I enjoy your description of yourself as a "considerate smoker." Pretty much every smoker I've ever read on the internet thinks they are a considerate smoker. They never smoke in public. They don't smoke around children. They don't throw butts out the car window. They don't smoke around people who wish to avoid it. Uh-huh. Apparently these considerate smokers rarely leave their computers because finding one "in the wild" is rare indeed...

You act like smokers can be a self sufficient little group that doesn't effect anyone else. Tell me then, why are billions of taxpayer dollars spent each year to treat the effects of smoking? Why are hundreds of millions of dollars of private health care premiums artificially inflated to help cover the cost of smoking-related illnesses?

Smokers Cost Taxpayers $10 Billion

Like it or not, smoking affects me even if I never see it or smell it again. Anyone who pays taxes or health insurance premiums is subsidizing the health effects of smoking. It's an undeniable fact.

I'm not after your right to smoke. I am more than happy for you to smoke on your personal property, unless children are present. I could care less if you smoke 5 packs tonight and chase it with shots of Draino, it is your right to make poor choices. Just do it at home.
Great post!! One very small addition... anyone who smokes in/around children should be jailed for child abuse. NOBODY should have to endure second hand smoke...most especially children.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Partisanship Is An Intellectual/Emotional Handicap
1,851 posts, read 1,873,194 times
Reputation: 1079
Quote:
Originally Posted by bibit612 View Post
What I don't understand is why there was not a compromise...why they didn't allow the business owners to separate the areas if they wanted to and cater to smokers only there, unless I'm mistaken. What is evident in this ping-pong discussion is that attitudes about this goes beyond just smoking. And an earlier poster was right about certain posters' posts leaning toward expansion of government intervention in our lives. I hope that all of you who will now be free to patronize all those places you can't because smoking was allowed there tip your servers graciously to make up for the lost business from those who decide to stay at home. In the final analysis, when some of them (not all) would have felt the pinch of the law and be forced to downsize or out right close, life for you would go on as usual without as much as a blip.

None of the people who are in support of this ban, will ever be customers in more than 5% of the establishments that want to permit smoking in their business. And 5% is being generous.

And make no mistake, there are plenty of workers and business owners who want to retain the right to permit smoking.

The bottom line here is that the support crowd knows no compromise and are completely inflexible. They want more government control and only concenr themselves with their selfish interests.

And some of these people think this will leve the playing field for their opwn businesses (selfish interest), because they can't complete fairly. So they want the governement to step in and bully the playing field in their favor.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,975 posts, read 17,556,376 times
Reputation: 5005
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
LOL! Well, I have a feeling most of us are on the tolerant side in this debate - meaning - even if we don't smoke, we don't care if others do. However, if one has asthma/COPD, etc. then choosing a venue could be a deciding factor as to attendance. Anything "open air" available?
I dunno Ani...I think you're counting wrong. I think there are less who are tolerant. Only way to find out is for Johne to do a poll, and a visible voter poll and see if your theory is correct. I think that for those not tolerant, even open-air would not cut it.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 04:07 PM
 
7,104 posts, read 9,697,599 times
Reputation: 2564
Default Second hand smoke in a 3rd world country

Scene: Open breezeway that leads from cabs, buses, etc to a hotel entrance in the Dominican Republic. Heavy duty cigar capital of the world. Me and two swarty looking guys with the biggest, blackest, bad arse cigars you can imagine just passing the time and relaxing during the heat of the day.

Several incoming tourist arriving by shuttle bus. I know for certain they are from NY. Liberal type and quite honestly not my cup of tea. They walk through the breezeway with nose pinched. OMG! They just got here and already they have an agenda.Walking as they had something physically wrong with them in the outdoors.

One of the bad guys looks at me with a puzzled look. So I tell the newbie tourists (what a pleasure this was) "Mi amor you are in the Dominican Republic now, get over it!" Of course then I had to explain to the banditios what I said and what it meant.

Sorry for the digression but it came to mind while reading this thread.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, NC
7,180 posts, read 11,196,367 times
Reputation: 30731
1) Do Not Support - In fact, I think it's ridiculous when people force laws like this on the greater public.

2) Quit in 1987

3) Transplant from NJ, VA, & MD
 
Old 05-09-2009, 04:10 PM
 
7,104 posts, read 9,697,599 times
Reputation: 2564
How ironic I was typing my post about open air smoking and you guys were posting the very subject.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Partisanship Is An Intellectual/Emotional Handicap
1,851 posts, read 1,873,194 times
Reputation: 1079
Quote:
Originally Posted by amploud View Post
And you'd be right if smoking wasn't a proven carcinogen. It is not possible to separate the health implications and smoking. They are one in the same.

I've now heard it all: "Non-smokers" are the selfish and inconsiderate ones! I actually did laugh out loud at that thought.

I enjoy your description of yourself as a "considerate smoker." Pretty much every smoker I've ever read on the internet thinks they are a considerate smoker. They never smoke in public. They don't smoke around children. They don't throw butts out the car window. They don't smoke around people who wish to avoid it. Uh-huh. Apparently these considerate smokers rarely leave their computers because finding one "in the wild" is rare indeed...

You act like smokers can be a self sufficient little group that doesn't effect anyone else. Tell me then, why are billions of taxpayer dollars spent each year to treat the effects of smoking? Why are hundreds of millions of dollars of private health care premiums artificially inflated to help cover the cost of smoking-related illnesses?

Smokers Cost Taxpayers $10 Billion

Like it or not, smoking affects me even if I never see it or smell it again. Anyone who pays taxes or health insurance premiums is subsidizing the health effects of smoking. It's an undeniable fact.

I'm not after your right to smoke. I am more than happy for you to smoke on your personal property, unless children are present. I could care less if you smoke 5 packs tonight and chase it with shots of Draino, it is your right to make poor choices. Just do it at home.
Oh brother. How desperate can you get? Back to this, again? What happened to your "Right To Pursuit Of Happieness (At The Local Blues Club)" ....argument?

Well, how much of my (ours) tax dollars go to treat the health conditions of the over-eating obese?

How much of my tax dollars go to treat health condtions as a result of alcohol?

How about tax dollars to treat injuries from automobile related accidents?

How much of our tax dollars go to treat the health and mental conditions of the stupid? You know, people who do stupid sh*t, get hurt and have no insurance. How about lazy people who don't wnat to work or get an education?

Shall we ban the lazy, fatty foods, obese people, alcohol, automobiles and stupid people? Yeah, let's do it!!!
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